mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:I recall early that Melo was like "well do what we can with what we got".

Im not into conspiracy or anything but since we all hindsight Miss Cleo's these days with defacto insight I'd say that line tells a big story as to expectations.

One might project that phil was all about getting a good draft pick and Melo can run amuck and pad his stats for a year! Why would melo do that? Cuz he getting paid!!!!

Seems to me the only ones really getting frustrated are fans with higher expectations.

I'd rather turn the clock forward cuz this is not about "the now", its about the future.

You want to change the culture, then you must first purge. This happens this summer. Then two years of roster inclusions. This is about years 4 and 5 in PHils tenure. He might stay longer. Maybe shorter.

Who knows. But you can't build a contender with the pieces as they were in a year. You can't do it without a damn good draft pick.

No guarantees by the way. This might turn into a colossal piece of shyt as it was under Isiah. we'll see!

This is about Melo ... if its year 4 or 5 in this tenure that we are waiting for then in retrospect, would Phil have resigned Melo knowing and seeing what he sees?

It sounds like you are saying YES.

I am saying Yes. The notion of winnig every year is fed by the need to create a patina of hope to sell tickets. You don't go to game if you think they will lose.
My take is Phil is doing the triangle, don't care about winning, will try to trade these guys but the non believers are injured so they can't be moved now. Guys like Travis Wear will be part of a future. Melo will be a part of the future.

Since its hard to get guys to move you do what you can and Melo was part of that. 30 games and my expectation were for a rough start but it would finish stronger. Im thinking thats not a good idea if you can get a top 3 pick via the draft.

Dolan was always the problem with his meddling way and my take is he signed Phil and is ok with this. The moment its not phil will quit and keep his money cuz he had big leverage when negotiating.
I think Kerr took the better job and understood how tough this gig would be. Fish also, but this is not about this season, its about building.

Across the street from me they are demolishing a building to build a new one. They have to be very careful. They were working on the foundation first removing the buildings infrastructure. HEating, pipes, ets all for salvage. This is not an implosion type demo, its very surgical because of neighoring structures. So its very slow. I park next to it so I get whats going on by someone walking by I knew asked me why it was taking so long and I explained there are things going on that we can't see. Over a weekend I came back to the office and they had made huge strides and one can see the interior had been gutted and with the exterior gutted it looked like big progression was made in a very short time.

My take is there are things we can't see or understand being outsiders. Usually teams with this bad a record is at each others throat and coaches get fired. Today we read Knicks http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=54810941 about the inflexibilty of Phil that he wants the triangle done no matter the result. The players are getting paid to do what the coach is asking. I recall them saying they'd know who to keep or who is out between thankgiving and Christmas. I think the injured Shump and JR are on the list but really can't be traded now.

Im fine that nobody is succeeding at the triangle in the league. The path of least resistance is sometimes applicable but if you have an owner who is now patient and willing to pay the price in losses and at the gate to build something great then I think its foolish after 30 games to micromanage the blame.

Turn back the clock? Naw, Im ok with the currant failure of this team. Im not freaking over Melo either. Phil has enough success, Cred, and ability to communicate with potential free agents that they won't be thinking in terms of "Isola", "F500", "Briggs" or "Bonn", thats reactions to losses, extropolate the present into the future, read negative media and not have have access to the vision.

For the record, I am making a stab at this and don't claim to have the vision. I am always blown away from Dolans Stupidity over the years and just how bad the thought process was. PHil Jackson either took a massive money grab or has a plan. The more we stick to a methodical disiplined approach, even if it means losing. The more we do, the more confident I am about a cultural change. It starts from the interior and progress is not apparent for some time. We are in demolition mode. Can't sell tickets on that that theme. Isola can't keep repeating the zen mantra and get his readers riled up. F500 can pretend he knows whats up but he is only reacting to the losses in front of him.

Knicks are a mess, but thats what Demolitions are. A controlled mess.

I hope.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If you look at the options. We could have tried to trade Melo to the Bulls after telling Melo we weren't willing to pay him the amount he wanted. But Melo would be able to veto any trade and sign with the Bulls out right. And there is no guarantee that the Bulls would have been willing to take on a contract for Melo at the price he wanted while also giving up a ton of assets. Especially if they new the Knicks weren't going to give him the money he wanted leaving Melo with no real leverage to do a S&T over an out right free agency signing. They had enough fall back options(lotto pick Dougie and amnesty for Gasol) to not need to over pay for Melo. The fantasy of Phil trading Melo to the Bulls for all there assets is just fantasy given there flexible situation.

If we let Melo walk, we don't have our 2016 first round pick. All the cap space we would have would only mean that we would still need to throw max at any upcoming free agent to come to our rebuilding situation or it wouldn't be worth it. We would need to use the cap space to collect assets which we could do now even with having Melo on the team.

Any outcome that was produced this season could be met with critique. If the Knicks were playing good enough for a 3-6 seed in the East. Ppl would be able to complain how its because the east is weak and we aren't a real contender and we are only hurting our shot at a high lotto blue chip prospect. We will be losing 90% of our roster anyway and that every other team has a better situation then NY going forward. If the Knicks were fighting for 7-8 seed. Then ppl would be able to complain that we are a mediocre team in a weak conference not good enough to get past the first round but still losing out on a high lotto blue chip prospect. And every team in the league will have a better situation for free agent going forward and we will have to overpay free agents to come here. If the Knicks suck really bad. Ppl have been complaining that Melo isn't a real superstar. We will get a high lotto pick but Phil will screw it up because he resigned Melo and traded Tyson. We will have to overpay free agents to come here or its not worth it. And every other team in the league will be able to offer better situations to free agents then the Knicks.

In other words,it's a catch 22 no matter how you look at it.

With all that said. U win in this league with strong guard play. We improve our guard play we will win more basketball games. Upgrades at the SG and PG position plus a top 5 pick that is the real deal and we would be in good shape going forward.

I know money doesn't matter around here, but the next time somebody drools about how much money is going to be floating around the NBA because of a $2.xxx Billion TV deal,

then consider that

the dumb Knicks already have 10% of that amount tied up in their Holy Trinity

Nah, money don't matter

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Phil + Fish + Melo = $209 Million Dollahs

I know money doesn't matter around here, but the next time somebody drools about how much money is going to be floating around the NBA because of a $2.xxx Billion TV deal,

then consider that

the dumb Knicks already have 10% of that amount tied up in their Holy Trinity

Nah, money don't matter

Did you see my reply quoting you on previous page?

Yes, you're an Egyptologist smoking the finest Kif while grooving to your old Sun Ra platters

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Phil + Fish + Melo = $209 Million Dollahs

I know money doesn't matter around here, but the next time somebody drools about how much money is going to be floating around the NBA because of a $2.xxx Billion TV deal,

then consider that

the dumb Knicks already have 10% of that amount tied up in their Holy Trinity

Nah, money don't matter

Did you see my reply quoting you on previous page?

Yes, you're an Egyptologist smoking the finest Kif while grooving to your old Sun Ra platters

No that's what Amar'e is transitioning to

Did you catch Phil referred to Anthony and Greatness is the same breath

As far as cheifin Phil is sparkin and smokin that Barry Larkin

That's old cheddah. I remember Phil saying all dat mumbo jumbo post-signing, revving up the expectations that the Melo pumpkin would now transform into a golden chariot upon which Phil would ride the team to the promised land.

Phil's hustle playbook been played. Media is calling his bluff. One more fresh deck gets cut this off-season. Phil will need at least a flush or a straight to survive season 2.

it would take courage to be able to say: culture change begins with doing the OPPOSITE of what has brought you to this point. therefore, now that the owner is out of the way, the next thing to do is start with a clean slate and undo the owner's biggest mistake.

you let melo walk!