F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend

Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots

The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap

And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them

It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really

Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find

A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know

They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend

Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots

The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap

And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them

It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really

Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find

A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know

They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

Have to wait and see. The Bulls have been frugal in the past. No harm in trying for the guy you want.

There is no recent frugal history

I just gave a log of their past 6-7yrs

They were spenders this off-season and have been for

A while now, you have to go back to Jamal and Curry days of them losing their own

And could anyone truly blame them not being so gung-ho locking

Up Jamal and Eddy, then you have to go back to Jordan era

Which was when Krause was running the gig

Even the guys they let go Jamal-Eddy-Gordon-Deng

They offered extension to them and the player signed

Elsewhere for less or exact amount or out of spite

Offering Butler a 4yr deal is doing the Bulls a favor

If you can't see that, then I have no idea what else to say to you

Butler also has to be willing to tango with us to sign the sheet

Which means we don't want to spend a bunch of time monkeying with him and his agent

His team will want the 5th yr, 7.5% raises, he has zero desire to leave Chicago

On record multiple occasion saying he isn't leaving

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend

Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots

The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap

And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them

It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really

Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find

A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know

They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

Do you properly understand the gamesmanship

In negotiating especially when a team has the upper hand

I pointed out the down side, when a team has rights

To match they already know the max the comp can offer

So does their free agent and agent, they can trump a

4yr deal from us based on 7.5% raises alone

Frontloading is not so easy a thing to do

And going with that, the max bonus we can offer in Butler's situation

Is 10% of the total value of contract[he's restricted otherwise it would be 15%] which would count against our cap

Our Max offer to Butler would be $70,455,000 multiplier by .10 = $7,045,500 Front Load Bonus

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q75

Since the bonus is part of the total contract value it can't increase total contract value

So you have to subtract the bonus from $70mil divide what's left by 4yrs minus incremental raises

It adjust his first yr starting salary around $15mil + frontload bonus $7mil which means

We'd have a 1st yr cap hit close to $23mil Bye-Bye cap room

The next best thing is to invert his natural 4yr deal

Where the contract is top heavy and decreases by 4.5% each yr

Still the first yr cap hit eats up our $24mil or so cap space

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots. The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them. It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know. They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

Do you properly understand the gamesmanship In negotiating especially when a team has the upper hand. I pointed out the down side, when a team has rights To match they already know the max the comp can offer So does their free agent and agent, they can trump a 4yr deal from us based on 7.5% raises alone. Frontloading is not so easy a thing to do And going with that, the max bonus we can offer in Butler's situation Is 10% of the total value of contract[he's restricted otherwise it would be 15%] which would count against our cap. Our Max offer to Butler would be $70,455,000 multiplier by .10 = $7,045,500 Front Load Bonus [url]http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q75[/url Since the bonus is part of the total contract value it can't increase total contract value. So you have to subtract the bonus from $70mil divide what's left by 4yrs minus incremental raises It adjust his first yr starting salary around $15mil + frontload bonus $7mil which means We'd have a 1st yr cap hit close to $23mil Bye-Bye cap room. The next best thing is to invert his natural 4yr deal Where the contract is top heavy and decreases by 4.5% each yr. Still the first yr cap hit eats up our $24mil or so cap space

Well there is the salary teams will have to match but also the language within the contract teams will have to match. Options, No-trade clause, and etc are all things that teams with Restricted free agents have to decide if they want to match. If the knicks want to take risks they can offer the top free agents Player options and give them no-trade clause.

True but what we're interested in

Is not necessarily what Butler is interested in

Meaning if Butler doesn't want a No Trade Clause

He won't sign an offer sheet that has one

If he doesn't want his pay to decrease over course of contract then he won't sign

A Frontloaded deal, especially when a player's extensions and Max contracts

Are based on % of previous yrs salary or % of cap whichever is greater

If he doesn't want a 4yr deal but wants 5

We'd only be getting used by him to establish value

I think Frontloads only work with teams who are truly hemorrhaging financially

And have shown glaring cost cutting signs Bulls don't fit here

And he's a player I want badly, I'm just being realistic here

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots. The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them. It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know. They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

Do you properly understand the gamesmanship In negotiating especially when a team has the upper hand. I pointed out the down side, when a team has rights To match they already know the max the comp can offer So does their free agent and agent, they can trump a 4yr deal from us based on 7.5% raises alone. Frontloading is not so easy a thing to do And going with that, the max bonus we can offer in Butler's situation Is 10% of the total value of contract[he's restricted otherwise it would be 15%] which would count against our cap. Our Max offer to Butler would be $70,455,000 multiplier by .10 = $7,045,500 Front Load Bonus [url]http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q75[/url Since the bonus is part of the total contract value it can't increase total contract value. So you have to subtract the bonus from $70mil divide what's left by 4yrs minus incremental raises It adjust his first yr starting salary around $15mil + frontload bonus $7mil which means We'd have a 1st yr cap hit close to $23mil Bye-Bye cap room. The next best thing is to invert his natural 4yr deal Where the contract is top heavy and decreases by 4.5% each yr. Still the first yr cap hit eats up our $24mil or so cap space

Well there is the salary teams will have to match but also the language within the contract teams will have to match. Options, No-trade clause, and etc are all things that teams with Restricted free agents have to decide if they want to match. If the knicks want to take risks they can offer the top free agents Player options and give them no-trade clause.

True but what we're interested in Is not necessarily what Butler is interested in. Meaning if Butler doesn't want a No Trade Clause He won't sign an offer sheet that has one. If he doesn't want his pay to decrease over course of contract then he won't sign A Frontloaded deal, especially when a player's extensions and Max contracts Are based on % of previous yrs salary or % of cap whichever is greater. If he doesn't want a 4yr deal but wants 5 We'd only be getting used by him to establish value I think Frontloads only work with teams who are truly hemorrhaging financially And have shown glaring cost cutting signs Bulls don't fit hereAnd he's a player I want badly, I'm just being realistic here

All those things maybe true but are highly unlikely. It would be silly to front load Butler's contract for the knicks but if they did it would be smart to take a contract that gives you the most money up front. Thats just simple time value of money. Also, it would be silly to think that a player would turn down a no-trade clause. Why would any say no to controlling where they could go? It is only a benefit for the player. Then comes the opt outs. The Knicks could possibly put in an opt out in year 2 giving him the chance to cash in when the money jumps. I am not sure but maybe they can actually put in several opt outs. Then there are trade kickers that are available. The player has the right to decline that too. So if the knicks want to gamble and do some of those things they can make it hard on teams.

I think the Bulls will match financially because they know people will still value Butler if he fall off some offensively because he is a great defensive player. I don't know if they will want to match the language. The same thing can be said for Orlando and Tobias Harris. He is someone I would gamble on all the way because he is the youngest next tier FA on the market. I don't think Orlando will match but I do think they would do a S&T and that is something the knicks could use to get them two max players plus shape out their roster in theory.

I make the most obnoxious contract you could make--frontloaded no trade heavy trade kicker opt out after 2--whats the downside--you lose 5 days in FA? If the Bulls want to exercise thei right to match they can--downside=0.

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots. The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them. It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know. They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

Do you properly understand the gamesmanship In negotiating especially when a team has the upper hand. I pointed out the down side, when a team has rights To match they already know the max the comp can offer So does their free agent and agent, they can trump a 4yr deal from us based on 7.5% raises alone. Frontloading is not so easy a thing to do And going with that, the max bonus we can offer in Butler's situation Is 10% of the total value of contract[he's restricted otherwise it would be 15%] which would count against our cap. Our Max offer to Butler would be $70,455,000 multiplier by .10 = $7,045,500 Front Load Bonus [url]http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q75[/url Since the bonus is part of the total contract value it can't increase total contract value. So you have to subtract the bonus from $70mil divide what's left by 4yrs minus incremental raises It adjust his first yr starting salary around $15mil + frontload bonus $7mil which means We'd have a 1st yr cap hit close to $23mil Bye-Bye cap room. The next best thing is to invert his natural 4yr deal Where the contract is top heavy and decreases by 4.5% each yr. Still the first yr cap hit eats up our $24mil or so cap space

Well there is the salary teams will have to match but also the language within the contract teams will have to match. Options, No-trade clause, and etc are all things that teams with Restricted free agents have to decide if they want to match. If the knicks want to take risks they can offer the top free agents Player options and give them no-trade clause.

True but what we're interested in Is not necessarily what Butler is interested in. Meaning if Butler doesn't want a No Trade Clause He won't sign an offer sheet that has one. If he doesn't want his pay to decrease over course of contract then he won't sign A Frontloaded deal, especially when a player's extensions and Max contracts Are based on % of previous yrs salary or % of cap whichever is greater. If he doesn't want a 4yr deal but wants 5 We'd only be getting used by him to establish value I think Frontloads only work with teams who are truly hemorrhaging financially And have shown glaring cost cutting signs Bulls don't fit hereAnd he's a player I want badly, I'm just being realistic here

All those things maybe true but are highly unlikely. It would be silly to front load Butler's contract for the knicks but if they did it would be smart to take a contract that gives you the most money up front. Thats just simple time value of money. Also, it would be silly to think that a player would turn down a no-trade clause. Why would any say no to controlling where they could go? It is only a benefit for the player. Then comes the opt outs. The Knicks could possibly put in an opt out in year 2 giving him the chance to cash in when the money jumps. I am not sure but maybe they can actually put in several opt outs. Then there are trade kickers that are available. The player has the right to decline that too. So if the knicks want to gamble and do some of those things they can make it hard on teams.

I think the Bulls will match financially because they know people will still value Butler if he fall off some offensively because he is a great defensive player. I don't know if they will want to match the language. The same thing can be said for Orlando and Tobias Harris. He is someone I would gamble on all the way because he is the youngest next tier FA on the market. I don't think Orlando will match but I do think they would do a S&T and that is something the knicks could use to get them two max players plus shape out their roster in theory.

I make the most obnoxious contract you could make--frontloaded no trade heavy trade kicker opt out after 2--whats the downside--you lose 5 days in FA? If the Bulls want to exercise thei right to match they can--downside=0.

I think the front loaded contract is something the knicks would not do and should not do. They need to put in everything except that because they have other holes to fill.

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots. The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them. It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know. They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

Do you properly understand the gamesmanship In negotiating especially when a team has the upper hand. I pointed out the down side, when a team has rights To match they already know the max the comp can offer So does their free agent and agent, they can trump a 4yr deal from us based on 7.5% raises alone. Frontloading is not so easy a thing to do And going with that, the max bonus we can offer in Butler's situation Is 10% of the total value of contract[he's restricted otherwise it would be 15%] which would count against our cap. Our Max offer to Butler would be $70,455,000 multiplier by .10 = $7,045,500 Front Load Bonus [url]http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q75[/url Since the bonus is part of the total contract value it can't increase total contract value. So you have to subtract the bonus from $70mil divide what's left by 4yrs minus incremental raises It adjust his first yr starting salary around $15mil + frontload bonus $7mil which means We'd have a 1st yr cap hit close to $23mil Bye-Bye cap room. The next best thing is to invert his natural 4yr deal Where the contract is top heavy and decreases by 4.5% each yr. Still the first yr cap hit eats up our $24mil or so cap space

Well there is the salary teams will have to match but also the language within the contract teams will have to match. Options, No-trade clause, and etc are all things that teams with Restricted free agents have to decide if they want to match. If the knicks want to take risks they can offer the top free agents Player options and give them no-trade clause.

True but what we're interested in Is not necessarily what Butler is interested in. Meaning if Butler doesn't want a No Trade Clause He won't sign an offer sheet that has one. If he doesn't want his pay to decrease over course of contract then he won't sign A Frontloaded deal, especially when a player's extensions and Max contracts Are based on % of previous yrs salary or % of cap whichever is greater. If he doesn't want a 4yr deal but wants 5 We'd only be getting used by him to establish value I think Frontloads only work with teams who are truly hemorrhaging financially And have shown glaring cost cutting signs Bulls don't fit hereAnd he's a player I want badly, I'm just being realistic here

All those things maybe true but are highly unlikely. It would be silly to front load Butler's contract for the knicks but if they did it would be smart to take a contract that gives you the most money up front. Thats just simple time value of money. Also, it would be silly to think that a player would turn down a no-trade clause. Why would any say no to controlling where they could go? It is only a benefit for the player. Then comes the opt outs. The Knicks could possibly put in an opt out in year 2 giving him the chance to cash in when the money jumps. I am not sure but maybe they can actually put in several opt outs. Then there are trade kickers that are available. The player has the right to decline that too. So if the knicks want to gamble and do some of those things they can make it hard on teams.

I think the Bulls will match financially because they know people will still value Butler if he fall off some offensively because he is a great defensive player. I don't know if they will want to match the language. The same thing can be said for Orlando and Tobias Harris. He is someone I would gamble on all the way because he is the youngest next tier FA on the market. I don't think Orlando will match but I do think they would do a S&T and that is something the knicks could use to get them two max players plus shape out their roster in theory.

You may have a point about No Trade Clause

All I was pointing out what you itemized may not align with what Butler wants

As far as opt outs, they go as follows 4-5yr deal earliest is 3yrs into deal

If you go less yrs 3yrs then it's 2/////

Then its chops off overall contract value and guaranteed money

Trade kicker would be equal advantage but we're also

Making things quite difficult if it didn't work having 2 contracts

With kickers at around 15%, Tobias-Knight-Jackson are the contracts

To more likely gamble on Butler isn't no matter the language talk

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots. The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them. It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know. They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

Do you properly understand the gamesmanship In negotiating especially when a team has the upper hand. I pointed out the down side, when a team has rights To match they already know the max the comp can offer So does their free agent and agent, they can trump a 4yr deal from us based on 7.5% raises alone. Frontloading is not so easy a thing to do And going with that, the max bonus we can offer in Butler's situation Is 10% of the total value of contract[he's restricted otherwise it would be 15%] which would count against our cap. Our Max offer to Butler would be $70,455,000 multiplier by .10 = $7,045,500 Front Load Bonus [url]http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q75[/url Since the bonus is part of the total contract value it can't increase total contract value. So you have to subtract the bonus from $70mil divide what's left by 4yrs minus incremental raises It adjust his first yr starting salary around $15mil + frontload bonus $7mil which means We'd have a 1st yr cap hit close to $23mil Bye-Bye cap room. The next best thing is to invert his natural 4yr deal Where the contract is top heavy and decreases by 4.5% each yr. Still the first yr cap hit eats up our $24mil or so cap space

Well there is the salary teams will have to match but also the language within the contract teams will have to match. Options, No-trade clause, and etc are all things that teams with Restricted free agents have to decide if they want to match. If the knicks want to take risks they can offer the top free agents Player options and give them no-trade clause.

True but what we're interested in Is not necessarily what Butler is interested in. Meaning if Butler doesn't want a No Trade Clause He won't sign an offer sheet that has one. If he doesn't want his pay to decrease over course of contract then he won't sign A Frontloaded deal, especially when a player's extensions and Max contracts Are based on % of previous yrs salary or % of cap whichever is greater. If he doesn't want a 4yr deal but wants 5 We'd only be getting used by him to establish value I think Frontloads only work with teams who are truly hemorrhaging financially And have shown glaring cost cutting signs Bulls don't fit hereAnd he's a player I want badly, I'm just being realistic here

All those things maybe true but are highly unlikely. It would be silly to front load Butler's contract for the knicks but if they did it would be smart to take a contract that gives you the most money up front. Thats just simple time value of money. Also, it would be silly to think that a player would turn down a no-trade clause. Why would any say no to controlling where they could go? It is only a benefit for the player. Then comes the opt outs. The Knicks could possibly put in an opt out in year 2 giving him the chance to cash in when the money jumps. I am not sure but maybe they can actually put in several opt outs. Then there are trade kickers that are available. The player has the right to decline that too. So if the knicks want to gamble and do some of those things they can make it hard on teams.

I think the Bulls will match financially because they know people will still value Butler if he fall off some offensively because he is a great defensive player. I don't know if they will want to match the language. The same thing can be said for Orlando and Tobias Harris. He is someone I would gamble on all the way because he is the youngest next tier FA on the market. I don't think Orlando will match but I do think they would do a S&T and that is something the knicks could use to get them two max players plus shape out their roster in theory.

I make the most obnoxious contract you could make--frontloaded no trade heavy trade kicker opt out after 2--whats the downside--you lose 5 days in FA? If the Bulls want to exercise thei right to match they can--downside=0.

I think the new cba has cut the waiting time down from 5 days- I think it's only 3 now. The problem is if Phil's main target is butler and he fails to land him, and we miss out on other FAs, he'd be torn to shreds by the media and fans. They have no patience. In reality we need a GM who sticks to their plan and doesn't make panic moves- it worked out great for the Mavs, but our fans and media wouldn't let us take that approach.

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Bulls are cheap--they are already at 61mm on 8 contracts. Offering Jimmy Butler a frontloaded maximum contract --we'll see if they match. But thats the guy Id target--and whoever says its too much--thats free agency. We need it to put a hurting on Chicago to match.

This. If Butler is the guy the Knicks target they need to make an offer that at least causes the Bulls to consider letting him go.

Bulls easily match a 4yr offer to Butler

Butler is entitled to 25% of Cap

$66mil Salary Cap multiplier by .250 = 1st yr $16.5mil

Raises on each yr 4%, $16.5mil multiplier by .045 = $742,500/yr

1yr = $16.5mil
2yr = $17.242mil
3yr = $17.985mil
4yr = $18.727mil

________________

Total $70,455,000

Now consider we only have about $24mil to spend

Factoring all cap holds and empty roster slots

The Bulls would make us wait the 3-5days to match tying up our cap

And match the contract because it takes the 5th yr away from them

It's not wise to go after Butler pretty pointless really

Nor do I see it getting to the point Butler has to go find

A contract to have matched Lin style, Butler and his agent know

They have the 5th yr as an Ace in Hole, which they'll Player Opt more than likely

I don't see one iota of downside trying to offer him a maximum contract. I think we can frontload it as well which would end up costing Chicago several million in luxury taxes.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:If what we need is a two-way slasher, a PF, and a Center, why would we go for Tobbias? Please advise.

Go small but bigger than the small teams the Knicks have had in the past. The knicks just play with two 3/4 types instead sliding a shooting guard to the three that can't shoot. Melo and Harris are bugger than Acy and both rebound better than every PF not named Amar'e. That's not saying much but both Melo and Harris can average 7+ rebs a year which is good. Tobias is also a capable slasher, shooter, and is improving as a passer. The only teams that are truly big are the Bulls, Was,and Pacers when George comes back but West will be 35.

I want a team full of player that can get out of trouble if necessary and a team 1-4 that can handle a pnr. The triangle is built on players that can interchange positions so why not build a team with players that can do just that. That's just my opinion though.

I agree with that.

Josh smith, Milsap, tobias, Rudy gay, David lee.... all those guys are the same player give or take. They are also the only front court players that might come here via trade or signing.

The Knicks would be fine with any of these guys playing next to Melo. Then they can switch off according to matchups. Keeps the skill level up without losing out on the interior play. That should be the goal for us.