Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:I love all the "I would need x" back.

We are not getting back picks unless we take back bad contracts.

Melo's contract will be extremely difficult to unload unless we get worse / take on sh1t.

If thats the case--I have zero problem keeping him. Its either get what I want--or keep him.

This is his 12th year. He's signed at the super max through the 16th year and it's not like he's a critical contributor to team's W-L records. This is going to look as bad as the Amare and Houston signings. We just need to get bailed out of his contract. Of course, you want picks, talented players, etc. but we'd be better off trading him for expiring contracts than keeping him. Would you rather be a bottom team in the league with $30 mil or $55 mil in cap space?

I believe if we get Ok4 or Stein it will open up a LOT for perimeter players. Melo is one of the better stretch 4's in this league if thats the position thats dictated. Instead of considering Melo a problem--I would use his skills as part of a solution. Why do I want to trade a piece I can use for nothing? I need an asset laden trade and if not--like Pat Riley would--and we know this--Pat Riley would easily work with melo to get the best out of him. He may be flawed--but hes still a great NBA player. I can think of a host of great NBA players on bad teams. Basketball is a team sport. I dont care how good 1 player is with too many holes--you cant win.

IF I was lucky enough to get OK4 Id install him at 4 put Melo at 3 and I would TRY to find a pro 2 in free agency(Jimmy Butler?) and I can piece mail it from there. I would need rim protectors athletic PG's a couple of back up shooters back up 3-4--I still need a whole team--but if I had that as my foundation--its something we can work with.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:I love all the "I would need x" back.

We are not getting back picks unless we take back bad contracts.

Melo's contract will be extremely difficult to unload unless we get worse / take on sh1t.

If thats the case--I have zero problem keeping him. Its either get what I want--or keep him.

This is his 12th year. He's signed at the super max through the 16th year and it's not like he's a critical contributor to team's W-L records. This is going to look as bad as the Amare and Houston signings. We just need to get bailed out of his contract. Of course, you want picks, talented players, etc. but we'd be better off trading him for expiring contracts than keeping him. Would you rather be a bottom team in the league with $30 mil or $55 mil in cap space?

I believe if we get Ok4 or Stein it will open up a LOT for perimeter players. Melo is one of the better stretch 4's in this league if thats the position thats dictated. Instead of considering Melo a problem--I would use his skills as part of a solution. Why do I want to trade a piece I can use for nothing? I need an asset laden trade and if not--like Pat Riley would--and we know this--Pat Riley would easily work with melo to get the best out of him. He may be flawed--but hes still a great NBA player. I can think of a host of great NBA players on bad teams. Basketball is a team sport. I dont care how good 1 player is with too many holes--you cant win.

IF I was lucky enough to get OK4 Id install him at 4 put Melo at 3 and I would TRY to find a pro 2 in free agency(Jimmy Butler?) and I can piece mail it from there. I would need rim protectors athletic PG's a couple of back up shooters back up 3-4--I still need a whole team--but if I had that as my foundation--its something we can work with.

You are lucky to either get what you want, or have the vision to see a path to enlightenment!

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:I love all the "I would need x" back.

We are not getting back picks unless we take back bad contracts.

Melo's contract will be extremely difficult to unload unless we get worse / take on sh1t.

If thats the case--I have zero problem keeping him. Its either get what I want--or keep him.

This is his 12th year. He's signed at the super max through the 16th year and it's not like he's a critical contributor to team's W-L records. This is going to look as bad as the Amare and Houston signings. We just need to get bailed out of his contract. Of course, you want picks, talented players, etc. but we'd be better off trading him for expiring contracts than keeping him. Would you rather be a bottom team in the league with $30 mil or $55 mil in cap space?

I believe if we get Ok4 or Stein it will open up a LOT for perimeter players. Melo is one of the better stretch 4's in this league if thats the position thats dictated. Instead of considering Melo a problem--I would use his skills as part of a solution. Why do I want to trade a piece I can use for nothing? I need an asset laden trade and if not--like Pat Riley would--and we know this--Pat Riley would easily work with melo to get the best out of him. He may be flawed--but hes still a great NBA player. I can think of a host of great NBA players on bad teams. Basketball is a team sport. I dont care how good 1 player is with too many holes--you cant win.

IF I was lucky enough to get OK4 Id install him at 4 put Melo at 3 and I would TRY to find a pro 2 in free agency(Jimmy Butler?) and I can piece mail it from there. I would need rim protectors athletic PG's a couple of back up shooters back up 3-4--I still need a whole team--but if I had that as my foundation--its something we can work with.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The only realistic possibility is Houston- I started a thread on it yesterday. Melo wouldn't agree to go to the Lakers if his reason for wanting out of NY is all the losing. Morey has the salaries to match and some picks to trade. We'd be looking at taking back Ariza, expiring a in Shved and Jet and that rookie we drafted and traded the rights to

I dont see it--I's rather keep Melo in this case. To me its pretty simple--Im not taking back ANYTHING that I dont want just to make a trade. If someone gives me clear cap room and picks--I can do that. If I have to take minimal cap with a young player and a couple of picks--I can do that. Im not getting stuck with Trevor Ariza for four years and bad draft picks.

Unless I go the package that was what I wanted or close to it--I'd much rather keep Melo. All of this stuff that melo scks is pure BS. IF melo was part of a TEAM--where we had a legit 4 a legit 2 a 1 that ws able to penetrate--a diversity of athletes and shooters off the bench--we can be much better.

Its very hard to trade melo right now where we get fair value back. I dont see it .

We did this SAME sht with Zach randolph. Remember Zach scks hes a cancer hes for himself--the guy goes to Memphis for NOTHING and gets back to being an all star. Have to stay PATIENT here unless a deal really makes sense.

The problem is Melo isn't going to accept another losing year after this one- but we are running out of free agent options to field a good team next season. I'll start a thread in a minute about the dwindling free agent pool. We don't need complete maximum cap space, because once the cap is bumped up, every team will have space, so the value of taking on contracts for picks will decline for a few years. Ariza is a solid role player and he's played in the triangle. I worry about him turning to trash in a few years, but $7mil a year is okay. One of the rockets young players and a few picks would be nice.

I think Melo is good, and if we could build around him I'd keep him- but we can't, or at least not as quickly as he would tolerate. If you wait until next season, his value will only go down.

I thought you would have jumped at the chance to get the Pelicans 2015 first rounder that the rockets own (protected top 3 and 20-30) BRIGGs!

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:I love all the "I would need x" back.

We are not getting back picks unless we take back bad contracts.

Melo's contract will be extremely difficult to unload unless we get worse / take on sh1t.

If thats the case--I have zero problem keeping him. Its either get what I want--or keep him.

even if Phil feels like he will be another Amare and a Cap Killer?

Phil just resigned him. Why would he do that if he sees him as another Amare/cap killer.

good question ???

your post makes a faulty assumption that if Phil signed him then it was the right move.

Do you think that perhaps mr genius may be second guessing himself right now? HELL YEAH ...

mreinman wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Im not interested in trading Carmelo unless I got a near perfect type deal. I'm not on the trade Carmelo bandwagon. Its much more likely he stays here and I think we can absolutely work with it. Contrary to popular belief--Melo has been on a lot of good teams as the main guy. So when i say I wouldnt take Ariza and whatever else they can throw in--its not enough for me. On top of it--Houston has Ariza and Brewer--and a primary scorer in Harden--why do they want Melo? I can see the LAL but I cant see Houston. Nevertheless I do not trade Melo unless the deal is REALLY good. Do you think if Pat Riley was here--there would be any discussion of trade Melo? Nope

Who brought up Houston as a possible trade destination first in this thread? YOU DID.

Who was the first to actually talk about a base trade package with Houston that you said would be a "fair deal"? YOU DID.

Now, when challenged that you can't even make the salaries match up, at the most basic level, in a trade with Houston and when it's finally pointed out that the picks you think you are getting aren't going to be top shelf picks, you are saying No, No, No, I must have the most perfect trade for Melo to move him.

Dude, at least get the trade basics down if you are going to propose your weekly trade rape scenarios.

If Melo LEFT this offseason, the Knicks would have gotten NOTHING for him. There were no sign and trades that would have worked. Chicago was not going to gut it's roster, even moving Boozer off, and have Melo eat all that cap space just to get him there. He was viable with the cap space they had open, but not at the expense of what they have built.

The Knicks might trade Melo and get CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, but it would still be CENTS ON THE DOLLAR more than getting nothing at all if he had left as a free agent, taking a non max contract.

Why would Houston want Melo? Did you forget they courted him in the offseason as a free agent? Clearly they value him a potential asset, and given a chance to get an All Star player at cents on the dollar, why wouldn't they add to their asset base?

Read the tea leaves Briggs. When Melo wanted Pringles out, he dogged it. Melo is dogging it right now. He's basically saying that he will "shut it down" if he doesn't get traded. Like Wojo said, Melo signed the Knicks contract figuring he could force a trade later. And why wouldn't he think that? The Knicks have given him pretty much everything he wanted since his entire saga with NY started.

It might not be enough for you, but it's the best of what might be left. A distinction you seem to ignore. As time moves on, his trade value is going to sink, because that's when Zen Master and Melo start using the press as a medium to wage war on each other, trying to fob the blame of the losing on the other.

actually a really good post and sad but (I believe) spot on

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Im not interested in trading Carmelo unless I got a near perfect type deal. I'm not on the trade Carmelo bandwagon. Its much more likely he stays here and I think we can absolutely work with it. Contrary to popular belief--Melo has been on a lot of good teams as the main guy. So when i say I wouldnt take Ariza and whatever else they can throw in--its not enough for me. On top of it--Houston has Ariza and Brewer--and a primary scorer in Harden--why do they want Melo? I can see the LAL but I cant see Houston. Nevertheless I do not trade Melo unless the deal is REALLY good. Do you think if Pat Riley was here--there would be any discussion of trade Melo? Nope

Who brought up Houston as a possible trade destination first in this thread? YOU DID.

Who was the first to actually talk about a base trade package with Houston that you said would be a "fair deal"? YOU DID.

Now, when challenged that you can't even make the salaries match up, at the most basic level, in a trade with Houston and when it's finally pointed out that the picks you think you are getting aren't going to be top shelf picks, you are saying No, No, No, I must have the most perfect trade for Melo to move him.

Dude, at least get the trade basics down if you are going to propose your weekly trade rape scenarios.

If Melo LEFT this offseason, the Knicks would have gotten NOTHING for him. There were no sign and trades that would have worked. Chicago was not going to gut it's roster, even moving Boozer off, and have Melo eat all that cap space just to get him there. He was viable with the cap space they had open, but not at the expense of what they have built.

The Knicks might trade Melo and get CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, but it would still be CENTS ON THE DOLLAR more than getting nothing at all if he had left as a free agent, taking a non max contract.

Why would Houston want Melo? Did you forget they courted him in the offseason as a free agent? Clearly they value him a potential asset, and given a chance to get an All Star player at cents on the dollar, why wouldn't they add to their asset base?

Read the tea leaves Briggs. When Melo wanted Pringles out, he dogged it. Melo is dogging it right now. He's basically saying that he will "shut it down" if he doesn't get traded. Like Wojo said, Melo signed the Knicks contract figuring he could force a trade later. And why wouldn't he think that? The Knicks have given him pretty much everything he wanted since his entire saga with NY started.

It might not be enough for you, but it's the best of what might be left. A distinction you seem to ignore. As time moves on, his trade value is going to sink, because that's when Zen Master and Melo start using the press as a medium to wage war on each other, trying to fob the blame of the losing on the other.

actually a really good post and sad but (I believe) spot on

Exactly. Imagine how much better off we'd be if a few years ago we had moved Amare for expiring contracts. A few years from now, we will be saying the same thing about Melo's $124 mil contract. We just need a bailout. We can't compete with teams that use every penny of the $65 mil in cap space effectively while we've blown almost 40% of that money on Melo.

Is there a link to the Wojo article referenced? I can't find it.