The first team meeting was Nov. 9th. Phil will use the media when it suits him. He kept the team isolated from the clutches of media but for so long.

If Melo is not happy, then sit his ass!!!! The knee is sore??? Good cover. Melo rejected MDA, and is rejecting the Triangle?
I don't think it really hurts his value. He had suiters this summer while knowing he is what he is. Rejecting the triangle is not big deal.

This is Im not sure Im down for trading him until I see what kind of return we can get.

What can we get? Where would he want to go?

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Play the Triangle and weed out the dumb, the lazy and those that are not with it.
Then you know the roster you have.

The first team meeting was Nov. 9th. Phil will use the media when it suits him. He kept the team isolated from the clutches of media but for so long.

If Melo is not happy, then sit his ass!!!! The knee is sore??? Good cover. Melo rejected MDA, and is rejecting the Triangle?
I don't think it really hurts his value. He had suiters this summer while knowing he is what he is. Rejecting the triangle is not big deal.

This is Im not sure Im down for trading him until I see what kind of return we can get.

What can we get? Where would he want to go?

Agree with you completely Nalod- a lot of posters are showing zero patience

You guys just have a different POV. You may be hopeful the current path will be fruitful, hence you are willing to be patient to see if it pans out. That's fine.

But it doesn't mean everyone lacks patience. Some just don't buy this path we're on as already indicated by Phil's choices as a valid one. There's nothing to be patient for when you believe this teams needs to be gutted, including Melo.

No, I don't need to go back and forth now about how Melo is this or that according to you or me. We know all that. But patience is fine when you have some faith in the plan. I don't.

It looks compromised from day one. Phil told the public Dolan let him decide on whether to sign Melo. I think that is pure horsecrap. I don't believe it. You can. That's your choice. The Melo deal is a white elephant contract, likely just as deadly to this club as Amare's was.

This is not a rebuild. This is a patch-up job.

mreinman wrote:Melo should have gone to chicago. He and thibs would have gotten along beautifully. LMAO

And ultimately the reason why Melo didn't go aside from the money. Thibs would have been the first coach to put the fear of God in him. Melo don't like that.

Can you imagine Pops coaching Melo? Oi vey

Splat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Play the Triangle and weed out the dumb, the lazy and those that are not with it.
Then you know the roster you have.

The first team meeting was Nov. 9th. Phil will use the media when it suits him. He kept the team isolated from the clutches of media but for so long.

If Melo is not happy, then sit his ass!!!! The knee is sore??? Good cover. Melo rejected MDA, and is rejecting the Triangle?
I don't think it really hurts his value. He had suiters this summer while knowing he is what he is. Rejecting the triangle is not big deal.

This is Im not sure Im down for trading him until I see what kind of return we can get.

What can we get? Where would he want to go?

Agree with you completely Nalod- a lot of posters are showing zero patience

You guys just have a different POV. You may be hopeful the current path will be fruitful, hence you are willing to be patient to see if it pans out. That's fine.

But it doesn't mean everyone lacks patience. Some just don't buy this path we're on as already indicated by Phil's choices as a valid one. There's nothing to be patient for when you believe this teams needs to be gutted, including Melo.

No, I don't need to go back and forth now about how Melo is this or that according to you or me. We know all that. But patience is fine when you have some faith in the plan. I don't.

It looks compromised from day one. Phil told the public Dolan let him decide on whether to sign Melo. I think that is pure horsecrap. I don't believe it. You can. That's your choice. The Melo deal is a white elephant contract, likely just as deadly to this club as Amare's was.

This is not a rebuild. This is a patch-up job.

None of this explains why they hired fisher, Melo was ready, willing and able to play in the triangle. He had multiple discussions with Kobe, jordan, and Pip.

let me also tell you something else, JORDANS teammates hated him for a while, thought he shot to much, never pass the ball, and how many times did you see jordan shoot 35 times in a game, in fact when he scored his infamous double nickel on the knicks he took 37 shots to do so.

9 loses by 5 or less points, without even watching one game (which i have all but 3 or 4), you know that comes from lack of leadership, and coaching..

knicks1248 wrote:

Splat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Play the Triangle and weed out the dumb, the lazy and those that are not with it.
Then you know the roster you have.

The first team meeting was Nov. 9th. Phil will use the media when it suits him. He kept the team isolated from the clutches of media but for so long.

If Melo is not happy, then sit his ass!!!! The knee is sore??? Good cover. Melo rejected MDA, and is rejecting the Triangle?
I don't think it really hurts his value. He had suiters this summer while knowing he is what he is. Rejecting the triangle is not big deal.

This is Im not sure Im down for trading him until I see what kind of return we can get.

What can we get? Where would he want to go?

Agree with you completely Nalod- a lot of posters are showing zero patience

You guys just have a different POV. You may be hopeful the current path will be fruitful, hence you are willing to be patient to see if it pans out. That's fine.

But it doesn't mean everyone lacks patience. Some just don't buy this path we're on as already indicated by Phil's choices as a valid one. There's nothing to be patient for when you believe this teams needs to be gutted, including Melo.

No, I don't need to go back and forth now about how Melo is this or that according to you or me. We know all that. But patience is fine when you have some faith in the plan. I don't.

It looks compromised from day one. Phil told the public Dolan let him decide on whether to sign Melo. I think that is pure horsecrap. I don't believe it. You can. That's your choice. The Melo deal is a white elephant contract, likely just as deadly to this club as Amare's was.

This is not a rebuild. This is a patch-up job.

None of this explains why they hired fisher, Melo was ready, willing and able to play in the triangle. He had multiple discussions with Kobe, jordan, and Pip.

let me also tell you something else, JORDANS teammates hated him for a while, thought he shot to much, never pass the ball, and how many times did you see jordan shoot 35 times in a game, in fact when he scored his infamous double nickel on the knicks he took 37 shots to do so.

9 loses by 5 or less points, without even watching one game (which i have all but 3 or 4), you know that comes from lack of leadership, and coaching..

it just tells me they fought to get back into games or stay in the them but arent good enough to close.

I will start to judge the path and the plan when the 2015 season starts.

You can believe Dolan paid Phil $60mm to come and manage Carmelo or you can use your eyes, deal with real info not pretend fantasy made up info and draw some conclusions then. We have very little info to work with, expect what Phil has purposely spelled out starting with he had no mandate to resign Melo. Of course if that doesnt suit your arguements you can always refuse to believe it, and then spin it like Phil is lying. Time will tell.

Splat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
None of this explains why they hired fisher, Melo was ready, willing and able to play in the triangle. He had multiple discussions with Kobe, jordan, and Pip.

let me also tell you something else, JORDANS teammates hated him for a while, thought he shot to much, never pass the ball, and how many times did you see jordan shoot 35 times in a game, in fact when he scored his infamous double nickel on the knicks he took 37 shots to do so.

9 loses by 5 or less points, without even watching one game (which i have all but 3 or 4), you know that comes from lack of leadership, and coaching..

There are so many variables here.

Here's an analogy. Are you familiar with the Internet Marketing info-publishing world? Courses for $50 to $5,000 on how to make money online using various methods? What allows these courses to keep being sold? People buy them and do not take action. There are tens of millions of people who want to make money online, but they never do. And they buy another course.

Now do you think just because Melo "talked" to Kobe or MJ about Phil and the Triangle means his head was automatically screwed on straight? Melo shows all the classic signs of people who talk about what they are going to do and they never follow through. Don't forget, Melo is the guy with the vanity issues who repeatedly publicly said he wanted to experience the courtship process of free agency. He was in lala land playing out scenarios about who he would like to be, not what he is willing to work to become.

His mindset is very fantasy driven. During free agency, he could believe whatever he wanted, including Phil waving his wand and poof! he would perform just like MJ in a new culture, etc. That's the kind of guy Melo is. He's kind of an airhead, but smart enough to smell the money and go for it.

Melo is like wannabe entrepreneurs who never take action to succeed. He says he wants to be a champion, but its fake and not real. He is not driven. He doesn't really care that much.

So comparing Melo to MJ or Kobe means absolutely nothing. Those guys, whether they are ballhogs or not, are so vastly different. MJ is not even comparable for obvious reasons, but even Kobe in his insanity is a very driven guy with a great hunger to succeed, very much unlike Melo. And, of course, those two are physically explosive players, not plodding jab and post jump shooters like Melo. Nothing comparable about them in any way to Melo either physically or psychologically.

So bringing up Kobe or MJ in regards to Melo's situation with Phil is irrelevant.

mreinman wrote:I want(ed) to see Melo become more paul pierce like.

MJ and Kobe have different games / mindsets.

so is the contempory Ray Allen KG combo for Melo?
Kawhi and Lamarcus Aldrige?

Splat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
None of this explains why they hired fisher, Melo was ready, willing and able to play in the triangle. He had multiple discussions with Kobe, jordan, and Pip.

let me also tell you something else, JORDANS teammates hated him for a while, thought he shot to much, never pass the ball, and how many times did you see jordan shoot 35 times in a game, in fact when he scored his infamous double nickel on the knicks he took 37 shots to do so.

9 loses by 5 or less points, without even watching one game (which i have all but 3 or 4), you know that comes from lack of leadership, and coaching..

There are so many variables here.

Here's an analogy. Are you familiar with the Internet Marketing info-publishing world? Courses for $50 to $5,000 on how to make money online using various methods? What allows these courses to keep being sold? People buy them and do not take action. There are tens of millions of people who want to make money online, but they never do. And they buy another course.

Now do you think just because Melo "talked" to Kobe or MJ about Phil and the Triangle means his head was automatically screwed on straight? Melo shows all the classic signs of people who talk about what they are going to do and they never follow through. Don't forget, Melo is the guy with the vanity issues who repeatedly publicly said he wanted to experience the courtship process of free agency. He was in lala land playing out scenarios about who he would like to be, not what he is willing to work to become.

His mindset is very fantasy driven. During free agency, he could believe whatever he wanted, including Phil waving his wand and poof! he would perform just like MJ in a new culture, etc. That's the kind of guy Melo is. He's kind of an airhead, but smart enough to smell the money and go for it.

Melo is like wannabe entrepreneurs who never take action to succeed. He says he wants to be a champion, but its fake and not real. He is not driven. He doesn't really care that much.

So comparing Melo to MJ or Kobe means absolutely nothing. Those guys, whether they are ballhogs or not, are so vastly different. MJ is not even comparable for obvious reasons, but even Kobe in his insanity is a very driven guy with a great hunger to succeed, very much unlike Melo. And, of course, those two are physically explosive players, not plodding jab and post jump shooters like Melo. Nothing comparable about them in any way to Melo either physically or psychologically.

So bringing up Kobe or MJ in regards to Melo's situation with Phil is irrelevant.

I'm going to focus on the thread topic, it seems like anything wrong with this team it all points to melo.

Fisher, woody, MDA were bad, blame melo
The president is clueless, blame melo
Everybody on the team shoots jumpers, Blame Melo
All of our guards shoot FT's every 7 games, blame melo
No one pays attention to their man on the perimeter, blame melo,
Our Rotation is anything but a rotation, blame melo.

When exactly is fisher going to be held accountable for the lack of some of those most basic fundamentals of coaching.

I know carmelo needs kidd, KT, wallace, camby type players around him, and i certainly don't agree with him being the problem.

3 top issues for knicks

3 worthless sg's
no leadership
poor coaching.

San An sat 4 top cats last night, and fisher responded by playing 11 guys,4 Centers.
You bring in a top pick with this kind of leadership, it's like the blind leading the blind and off a cliff you go.

This guy fisher can not coach at all, it's like when Magic tried to coach, he was clueless and he knew it, so he left.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:I want(ed) to see Melo become more paul pierce like.

MJ and Kobe have different games / mindsets.

Im pretty sure two years ago when he was 3rd in MVP voting and we won 54 games the mindset was OK.

I 100000% agree though.

All we need is a HOF caliber bigman still in his prime and a shooting guard who is among the best ever, or at least as good as Jesus.

was Melo a willing passer in 54?

Melo has a sh1t team, we all know that. No excuse to not pass the ball.

It is an excuse to not win. How about he passes the ball and we lose? That would make me happier and would probably would untank us a bit (which may not be what we want)

He seemed to be passing a lot more (or at least willing too the first 10 games). The whole team seems to have mailed it in though. On the passing front, extremely low IQ guys in the backcourt. In the NO game for example there were multiple times where Shump or THJ completely disregarded mismatched on Melo or Amare in the low post. But hey...this team is bad, so not a huge surprise there is some terrible stuff on the court. I prefer this though. Teams that aren't that bad typically don't win the lottery.