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mreinman
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12/1/2014  2:10 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

F5 does not understand that every stat counts.

I believe that I posted in a previous thread that THJ was the worst rebounder in the NBA per 36 minutes.

So now we would have the worst rebounder in the league for more of the game?

If one is bad at one thing but they make up for it in other areas (e.g. Kidd could not shoot yet he was a huge net positive)

Thj is bad at everything right now. EVERYTHING.

These black and white arguments are strange.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
F500ONE
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12/1/2014  2:11 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

NEWSFLASH The starters haven't made a difference on this team they are 4-14

If he does exactly as you outlined then FedEx him outta here


What's so complicated, you play him 30min

In hopes he proves whatever negative perceptions are out there wrong


It's like some fans don't want him starting so they have no chance

Of being proven wrong, talk about hidden agendas
gunsnewing
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12/1/2014  2:13 PM
Based on that logic F5 we should start Wear over Melo
mreinman
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12/1/2014  2:17 PM
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

NEWSFLASH The starters haven't made a difference on this team they are 4-14

If he does exactly as you outlined then FedEx him outta here


What's so complicated, you play him 30min

In hopes he proves whatever negative perceptions are out there wrong


It's like some fans don't want him starting so they have no chance

Of being proven wrong, talk about hidden agendas

I all for him playing. Especially if we are in tank mode however I don't think that phisher thinks we are tanking.

I would love to see him shine and get experience.

However if we are trying to win, he gives us the least chance of that.

I actually thought that Larkin and Jose played ok together last night. Unlike THJ, they did not feel like they had to chuck it every time they touched it.

I have personally seen enough from our guys and would actually love to see some of our d'league guys get a shot.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
F500ONE
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12/1/2014  2:20 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Based on that logic F5 we should start Wear over Melo

Actually to be honest Guns "starting" was inserted into

The discussion meat and potatoes involves playing him heavy minutes


So if you take pride in Shumpert playing like trash only for

His minutes to be ate into[as we've seen unfold the past 5-6gms]


And surrendered to lesser calibers in Smith and JHJR

Then still beat your heart on your pillow at night


I just want a bigger sample size of playing time to make a final conclusion

I have no qualms on labeling THJR a novelty player[which I thought he was when we drafted him]


I simply want confirmation that's all

We are talking about a whole new team next yr and might as well


Conduct a more exhaustive analysis before we arrive there

As far as Wear


CAN I GET AN AMEN ON GIVING HIM A CORNER TO WORK THE BUSY STREETS ON AND NOT SOME BACK DIVE ALLEY
GoNyGoNyGo
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12/1/2014  2:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2014  2:24 PM
THJR has been awful this year. His D is atrocious and he can't even shoot it now.
F500ONE
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12/1/2014  2:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2014  2:27 PM
mreinman wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

NEWSFLASH The starters haven't made a difference on this team they are 4-14

If he does exactly as you outlined then FedEx him outta here


What's so complicated, you play him 30min

In hopes he proves whatever negative perceptions are out there wrong


It's like some fans don't want him starting so they have no chance

Of being proven wrong, talk about hidden agendas

I all for him playing. Especially if we are in tank mode however I don't think that phisher thinks we are tanking.

I would love to see him shine and get experience.

However if we are trying to win, he gives us the least chance of that.

I actually thought that Larkin and Jose played ok together last night. Unlike THJ, they did not feel like they had to chuck it every time they touched it.

I have personally seen enough from our guys and would actually love to see some of our d'league guys get a shot.

If we're going to microscope individual games or stretches in games


True


But when THJR came in, the team energy rose[25-16 in the 3rd]

He played a little D and we went on a run, whatever he brings that's positive is it sustainable


Maybe not, I have my doubts but I want to know for sure

I also feel if any player's value can peak it's his, he's our last shot


We owe it to ourselves to do the diligent things during this process
mreinman
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12/1/2014  2:29 PM
F500ONE wrote:
mreinman wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

NEWSFLASH The starters haven't made a difference on this team they are 4-14

If he does exactly as you outlined then FedEx him outta here


What's so complicated, you play him 30min

In hopes he proves whatever negative perceptions are out there wrong


It's like some fans don't want him starting so they have no chance

Of being proven wrong, talk about hidden agendas

I all for him playing. Especially if we are in tank mode however I don't think that phisher thinks we are tanking.

I would love to see him shine and get experience.

However if we are trying to win, he gives us the least chance of that.

I actually thought that Larkin and Jose played ok together last night. Unlike THJ, they did not feel like they had to chuck it every time they touched it.

I have personally seen enough from our guys and would actually love to see some of our d'league guys get a shot.

If we're going to microscope individual games or stretches in games


True


But when THJR came in, the ream energy rose

He played a little D and we went on a run, whatever he brings that's positive is it sustainable


Maybe not, I have my doubts but I want to know for sure

I also feel if any player's value can peak it's his, he's our last shot


We owe it to ourselves to do the diligent things during this process

Fair enough. Lets do it now. The only positive that I see from him is taking it to the hole (of which we have the worst in the league and taking it to the hoop in Shump)

Thj's shot was and is way too streaky for my liking and often flat.

I don't like players who need to jack up lots of shots to get hot. We have enough of those.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
F500ONE
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12/1/2014  2:34 PM
mreinman wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
mreinman wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

NEWSFLASH The starters haven't made a difference on this team they are 4-14

If he does exactly as you outlined then FedEx him outta here


What's so complicated, you play him 30min

In hopes he proves whatever negative perceptions are out there wrong


It's like some fans don't want him starting so they have no chance

Of being proven wrong, talk about hidden agendas

I all for him playing. Especially if we are in tank mode however I don't think that phisher thinks we are tanking.

I would love to see him shine and get experience.

However if we are trying to win, he gives us the least chance of that.

I actually thought that Larkin and Jose played ok together last night. Unlike THJ, they did not feel like they had to chuck it every time they touched it.

I have personally seen enough from our guys and would actually love to see some of our d'league guys get a shot.

If we're going to microscope individual games or stretches in games


True


But when THJR came in, the ream energy rose

He played a little D and we went on a run, whatever he brings that's positive is it sustainable


Maybe not, I have my doubts but I want to know for sure

I also feel if any player's value can peak it's his, he's our last shot


We owe it to ourselves to do the diligent things during this process

Fair enough. Lets do it now. The only positive that I see from him is taking it to the hole (of which we have the worst in the league and taking it to the hoop in Shump)

Thj's shot was and is way too streaky for my liking and often flat.

I don't like players who need to jack up lots of shots to get hot. We have enough of those.

To be honest he should be allowed to play free[his game within the system]

Just like all the other players, otherwise it's a double standard


I could see if Melo, Amar'e, and Smith were locking in defensively but they aren't

So for a coach to pigeon hole his game while giving free reign to washed up namesake players


That wouldn't fly with me, but I agree we need to see a more well rounded game from Timmy

But realistically speaking you won't see it in 15min of play or less from night-to-night


You aren't being reasonable with yourself if this is how you're gonna think
H1AND1
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12/1/2014  2:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2014  2:52 PM
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.

NEWSFLASH The starters haven't made a difference on this team they are 4-14

If he does exactly as you outlined then FedEx him outta here


What's so complicated, you play him 30min

In hopes he proves whatever negative perceptions are out there wrong


It's like some fans don't want him starting so they have no chance

Of being proven wrong, talk about hidden agendas

No hidden agendas here. I was simply stating my opinion that THjr's subpar numbers aren't due to being benched; simply that he isn't that good (yet). Hell, play him 45 minutes a night for all I care and lets see what we have and see if he develops. I personally have been a tank advocate since before the season began so making playing the youths as many minutes a priority would be fine by me.
Knicks1969
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12/1/2014  2:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2014  2:58 PM
Whether we are tanking or not, I believe it is behooved this organization to give THJ plenty of burn to either develop or fail. We will have a much better idea of the type of player he is and we can then decide to invest more in him or draft the next SG. Waisting valuable minutes on a JR Smith is stupid in my opinion. Play WEAR and THJ 30 minutes and see what they are made up off. Coach them through their mistakes and see if they can be coached.

One thing is for sure, he is a proud player with a huge ego. I believe we owe it to ourselves to cultivate this hound dude.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
fitzfarm
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12/1/2014  5:01 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i like thj but he doesn't do anything except shoot the ball. he's a liability defensively just like everyone else is.

and he is feast or famine as a shooter. mostly famine right now.

And not to mention he doesn't pass nor rebound...


How much you want to put on if he plays

30min/gm he gets more rebounds and assists[probably doubles his averages at worst]

OK: he doubles his averages, let's say that hypothetically. In 18 games he has 18 rebounds and 22 dimes. So that's 2 rebounds and 2 assists if he doubles his averages. That, plus bad defense and simply average shooting is pretty meh. And that's if he doubles his minutes to from 18 to 36 minutes per night.

Listen, I wish the kid well and hope he becomes a good player! I think he has some upside. But right now? He's certainly not a starter. Or at least a starter who is going to make any difference on this team.


if thjr is not a starter then how the heck is shump a starter throwing up bricks and afraid to drive to the hole. also shump is not a good defender by any means he is really slow lateraly and gets beat bad also he plays defense with his hands and not his feet. thjr can hit the three/midrange,drive to the basket,get to the free throw line, and is by far our best transition scorer. how could you not give him the nod at starting… it would be one thing if shump was a supior defender but that is definatly not the case. shump really struggles garding the 2 spot, and I'm not even going to bring up jr chucker that guy should be our third 2 off the bench… at least thjr gives it his all which i really cant for shump or jr chucker.
TPercy
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12/1/2014  7:25 PM
Larkin,THJR,Wear,Acy,Alrich
The Future is Bright!
BRIGGS
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12/1/2014  7:32 PM
I didnt see this thread but I wrote in another that I believe strongly TH JR needs 5 games/40 minutes a night in the D league to regain some form. Right now he is shot and I think playing him in the NBA is risky. He needs to get it going--the D league allows him that. Here he will get pulled or atleast think hes going to get pulled--you cant get better like that.
RIP Crushalot😞
F500ONE
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12/1/2014  7:34 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I didnt see this thread but I wrote in another that I believe strongly TH JR needs 5 games/40 minutes a night in the D league to regain some form. Right now he is shot and I think playing him in the NBA is risky. He needs to get it going--the D league allows him that. Here he will get pulled or atleast think hes going to get pulled--you cant get better like that.

Nope he needs those lion share minutes

In the real NBA


The D-League is nothing more than a glorified SL

In which THJR performed extremely well
holfresh
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12/1/2014  7:38 PM
Unfortunately TimJr doesn't do the things the triangle ask of a wing player..He needs an offense more typical of what we had last year..Wing players are asked to handle the ball more, make passes and penetrate..Hit an off the dribble shot..things u see JR. and Shump do..These are not consistent players, however..They aren't 2nd option type players..
gunsnewing
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12/1/2014  7:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2014  7:45 PM
Exactly Holfresh. Someone wrote earlier today that THJ is a perfect fit in the triangle. I needed a few hours to compose myself after laughing so hard. He is actually the worst of the 3 options for the triangle. Even JR is a better fit the problem is he has zero IQ and is the most inconsistent SG in nba history. Shumpert is the best option they have for better or worse because he can still impact the game when his shot is off.

There is a reason why THJ is not playing much and Shumpert and unfortunately JR are
TPercy
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12/1/2014  7:49 PM
Heneeds to be more confident going to the rim, he's very athletic, 6,6 , and put on muscle over the summer. I'd like to see him take advantage of that and improve that aspect of his game. His defence can improve we just got to coach him and keep his focus 100% of the time,
The Future is Bright!
Knicks1969
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12/1/2014  8:41 PM
TPercy wrote:Heneeds to be more confident going to the rim, he's very athletic, 6,6 , and put on muscle over the summer. I'd like to see him take advantage of that and improve that aspect of his game. His defence can improve we just got to coach him and keep his focus 100% of the time,

How can he do that when he is not getting the minutes necessary to excel?

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
Splat
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12/1/2014  8:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2014  8:51 PM
If Tim didn't have his occasional scoring spurts, no one would even be talking about him as a player with potential. He has some athleticism, but how does he leverage it?

Has anyone ever said Tim is good at anything other than a jumper and finishing on a fast break and a now very occasional drive to the rim?

If he has not shown a glimmer of ability in any other aspect of the game so far, why is he even considered to be more than just another random bench gunner? You can rent these every off-season.

It is looking like yet another Knicks devaluation of assets. Once upon time, he would have netted us something worth trading for. Now we would get next to nothing. We really know how to manage our teams and build our assets.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
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