TripleThreat wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:My goodness! What can we do to end up with such a backcourt? Those two can shoot the ball, defend, and they both play with a silent edge.

Knicks1969 wrote:I don't believe in tanking, and I don't think that will resolve our issues. We need to solidify the starting five, and we need to replenish our bench. There is no way we do so with a top draft pick.

2009 NBA Draft

Stephen Curry 7th overall

2011 NBA Draft

Klay Thompson 11th overall

I think we drafted our future PF with the 50th pick, so you can get starters anywhere in the draft if you scout well. The higher the better of course. Still want that # 1 pick.

Melo + Thanasis + Okafor sounds like a frontline to me.

knicks1248 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Curry is a great player and I remember the disappointment I felt when we missed out on drafting him. It was when we had and Steph would have lit it up under MDA.

One pick higher and MDA might still be here today.

Hill would have been solid in the triangle, thats why I don't get excited about the draft, we suck at it in a major way. Regime after Regime keeps dropping the ball

Did they drop the ball or did they not know how to build up their draft picks? I remember, Lee, Nate, Chandler and even Gallo doing well. Ariza developed into a solid NBA player. Here is the problem the Knicks miss out on sure things for what for some extra 5-10 wins. This falls on GMs not knowing the situation. In 2003 you have LeBron James coming out one of the surest players to come into the draft. What championship were they playing for. I would told the coach throw the weakest lineup out there. WhT did the Knicks end up with 2003 Mike Sweetney.

knicks1248 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Curry is a great player and I remember the disappointment I felt when we missed out on drafting him. It was when we had and Steph would have lit it up under MDA.

One pick higher and MDA might still be here today.

Hill would have been solid in the triangle, thats why I don't get excited about the draft, we suck at it in a major way. Regime after Regime keeps dropping the ball

Regime after regime dropped the ball on all aspects of basketball decision making. That's the point. If you trust Jackson and his team, then maybe they make good draft decisions for once. Well see, but the point is it still remains to be seen. But just because previous GM's made horrible draft decisions doesn't mean that current and future GM's will make the same mistakes. The past has no bearing on the future.

And whiffing on picks is a fact of the NBA but again that doesn't mean you quit all together now and in the future. The point is you keep going and keep trying. The likeliest route to getting and retaining a stud player in the nba is via the draft. When was the last time the Knicks were sustained contenders? Oh yeah, after we drafted Ewing.

How about a poker analogy. Pocket Aces will win a majority of the time. Lets say you have pocket aces and lose to someone with some BS hand. Lets say you lose pocket aces 3 times in a row. Does that mean you dont play aces in the future? No, of course not. You continue to play and bet pocket aces as heavy as possible every time you get them. Because in the long run you'll get value out of them more often than not.

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:What year and who did we pick?

2009 and we picked Jordan Hill right after Curry went to GSW. I believe Curry went 7th and we picked 8th.

BTW, DeMar DeRozen went 9th, one spot after we took Hill. The real donkey of that draft was Minnesota and the infamously moronic GM David Kahn. He had the 5th and 6th picks and took Rubio (OK, defensible at the time) BUT then immediately took another PG, Johnny Flynn (who is out of the league). What the F. Minnesota couldve added a Curry/DeRozan backcourt to Kevin Love (who was drafted the year before).

Flynn was the stunner. Rubio/Curry would have been interesting if you wanted 2 PGs- Rubio might be able to play D at SG. Curry/DeRozan would have been nice for them, too. Many other PGs available after their 1st two picks. They even picked up Lawson and traded him later on. Strange choices. Would have loved to have been a fly in their draft room.

Minny had 4 or 5 #1 picks in that draft, I think. That draft was a turning point for them in a terrible way.

In 2010 they take Wesley Johnson at #4. Monroe, Hayward, and George were on the board.

In 2011, the Thompson draft, they take Derrick Williams at #2. T.Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and Kantor were all on the board.

I am one who wants to keep my #1s, but Minny made a habit of making terrible decisions with extremely high picks, and shows us that high picks without having a GM with a high BB IQ can lead to disaster. Definitely a cautionary tale for those of use who want to build through the draft.

I completely agree. You can't just say tank and rebuild thru the draft solves all problems. You have to be really good at evaluating talent, extremely prepared, and also have a lot of luck. Of the teams that have done it right, 3 or 4 have failed miserably. A mix of building thru draft, trades, and free agency have always been the best way.

Yes, exactly. Make good FA moves and bolster your roster with cheap cost controlled talent via the draft. Hopefully, you knock a pick or two out of the park and get a star.

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:What year and who did we pick?

2009 and we picked Jordan Hill right after Curry went to GSW. I believe Curry went 7th and we picked 8th.

BTW, DeMar DeRozen went 9th, one spot after we took Hill. The real donkey of that draft was Minnesota and the infamously moronic GM David Kahn. He had the 5th and 6th picks and took Rubio (OK, defensible at the time) BUT then immediately took another PG, Johnny Flynn (who is out of the league). What the F. Minnesota couldve added a Curry/DeRozan backcourt to Kevin Love (who was drafted the year before).

Flynn was the stunner. Rubio/Curry would have been interesting if you wanted 2 PGs- Rubio might be able to play D at SG. Curry/DeRozan would have been nice for them, too. Many other PGs available after their 1st two picks. They even picked up Lawson and traded him later on. Strange choices. Would have loved to have been a fly in their draft room.

Minny had 4 or 5 #1 picks in that draft, I think. That draft was a turning point for them in a terrible way.

In 2010 they take Wesley Johnson at #4. Monroe, Hayward, and George were on the board.

In 2011, the Thompson draft, they take Derrick Williams at #2. T.Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and Kantor were all on the board.

I am one who wants to keep my #1s, but Minny made a habit of making terrible decisions with extremely high picks, and shows us that high picks without having a GM with a high BB IQ can lead to disaster. Definitely a cautionary tale for those of use who want to build through the draft.

I completely agree. You can't just say tank and rebuild thru the draft solves all problems. You have to be really good at evaluating talent, extremely prepared, and also have a lot of luck. Of the teams that have done it right, 3 or 4 have failed miserably. A mix of building thru draft, trades, and free agency have always been the best way.

Literally no one has ever said to ignore free agency and trades to improve the team. What we have said repeatedly is that the draft is, in some ways, an even more valuable tool to build a title contender and we, as a team, have consistently ignored and undervalued the draft to the team's detriment

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:What year and who did we pick?

2009 and we picked Jordan Hill right after Curry went to GSW. I believe Curry went 7th and we picked 8th.

BTW, DeMar DeRozen went 9th, one spot after we took Hill. The real donkey of that draft was Minnesota and the infamously moronic GM David Kahn. He had the 5th and 6th picks and took Rubio (OK, defensible at the time) BUT then immediately took another PG, Johnny Flynn (who is out of the league). What the F. Minnesota couldve added a Curry/DeRozan backcourt to Kevin Love (who was drafted the year before).

Flynn was the stunner. Rubio/Curry would have been interesting if you wanted 2 PGs- Rubio might be able to play D at SG. Curry/DeRozan would have been nice for them, too. Many other PGs available after their 1st two picks. They even picked up Lawson and traded him later on. Strange choices. Would have loved to have been a fly in their draft room.

Minny had 4 or 5 #1 picks in that draft, I think. That draft was a turning point for them in a terrible way.

In 2010 they take Wesley Johnson at #4. Monroe, Hayward, and George were on the board.

In 2011, the Thompson draft, they take Derrick Williams at #2. T.Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and Kantor were all on the board.

I am one who wants to keep my #1s, but Minny made a habit of making terrible decisions with extremely high picks, and shows us that high picks without having a GM with a high BB IQ can lead to disaster. Definitely a cautionary tale for those of use who want to build through the draft.

I completely agree. You can't just say tank and rebuild thru the draft solves all problems. You have to be really good at evaluating talent, extremely prepared, and also have a lot of luck. Of the teams that have done it right, 3 or 4 have failed miserably. A mix of building thru draft, trades, and free agency have always been the best way.

Literally no one has ever said to ignore free agency and trades to improve the team. What we have said repeatedly is that the draft is, in some ways, an even more valuable tool to build a title contender and we, as a team, have consistently ignored and undervalued the draft to the team's detriment

Exactamundo. We aren't talking about two diametrically opposed approaches to team building. The Knicks, right now, are the perfect example. We have a potential lottery pick in this upcoming draft and a smart pick would do wonders to go along with the oodles of FA money. Using both tools at the Knicks disposal wisely is the tricky part, not some decision whether to use either the draft OR free agency as if the use of one precludes the other.

Knixkik wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:What year and who did we pick?

2009 and we picked Jordan Hill right after Curry went to GSW. I believe Curry went 7th and we picked 8th.

BTW, DeMar DeRozen went 9th, one spot after we took Hill. The real donkey of that draft was Minnesota and the infamously moronic GM David Kahn. He had the 5th and 6th picks and took Rubio (OK, defensible at the time) BUT then immediately took another PG, Johnny Flynn (who is out of the league). What the F. Minnesota couldve added a Curry/DeRozan backcourt to Kevin Love (who was drafted the year before).

Flynn was the stunner. Rubio/Curry would have been interesting if you wanted 2 PGs- Rubio might be able to play D at SG. Curry/DeRozan would have been nice for them, too. Many other PGs available after their 1st two picks. They even picked up Lawson and traded him later on. Strange choices. Would have loved to have been a fly in their draft room.

Minny had 4 or 5 #1 picks in that draft, I think. That draft was a turning point for them in a terrible way.

In 2010 they take Wesley Johnson at #4. Monroe, Hayward, and George were on the board.

In 2011, the Thompson draft, they take Derrick Williams at #2. T.Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and Kantor were all on the board.

I am one who wants to keep my #1s, but Minny made a habit of making terrible decisions with extremely high picks, and shows us that high picks without having a GM with a high BB IQ can lead to disaster. Definitely a cautionary tale for those of use who want to build through the draft.

I completely agree. You can't just say tank and rebuild thru the draft solves all problems. You have to be really good at evaluating talent, extremely prepared, and also have a lot of luck. Of the teams that have done it right, 3 or 4 have failed miserably. A mix of building thru draft, trades, and free agency have always been the best way.

Literally no one has ever said to ignore free agency and trades to improve the team. What we have said repeatedly is that the draft is, in some ways, an even more valuable tool to build a title contender and we, as a team, have consistently ignored and undervalued the draft to the team's detriment

We attempted to rebuild thru the draft in 2008 and 2009, and it did not get us the impact we were looking for, so with 2010 free agency coming, we went in another direction.

i dont buy that. they spent those 2 years clearing contracts and ended up trading one of those picks in a salary dump. the point of those 2 years was geared to a rebuild with fa in 2010.

Knixkik wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:What year and who did we pick?

2009 and we picked Jordan Hill right after Curry went to GSW. I believe Curry went 7th and we picked 8th.

BTW, DeMar DeRozen went 9th, one spot after we took Hill. The real donkey of that draft was Minnesota and the infamously moronic GM David Kahn. He had the 5th and 6th picks and took Rubio (OK, defensible at the time) BUT then immediately took another PG, Johnny Flynn (who is out of the league). What the F. Minnesota couldve added a Curry/DeRozan backcourt to Kevin Love (who was drafted the year before).

Flynn was the stunner. Rubio/Curry would have been interesting if you wanted 2 PGs- Rubio might be able to play D at SG. Curry/DeRozan would have been nice for them, too. Many other PGs available after their 1st two picks. They even picked up Lawson and traded him later on. Strange choices. Would have loved to have been a fly in their draft room.

Minny had 4 or 5 #1 picks in that draft, I think. That draft was a turning point for them in a terrible way.

In 2010 they take Wesley Johnson at #4. Monroe, Hayward, and George were on the board.

In 2011, the Thompson draft, they take Derrick Williams at #2. T.Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and Kantor were all on the board.

I am one who wants to keep my #1s, but Minny made a habit of making terrible decisions with extremely high picks, and shows us that high picks without having a GM with a high BB IQ can lead to disaster. Definitely a cautionary tale for those of use who want to build through the draft.

I completely agree. You can't just say tank and rebuild thru the draft solves all problems. You have to be really good at evaluating talent, extremely prepared, and also have a lot of luck. Of the teams that have done it right, 3 or 4 have failed miserably. A mix of building thru draft, trades, and free agency have always been the best way.

Literally no one has ever said to ignore free agency and trades to improve the team. What we have said repeatedly is that the draft is, in some ways, an even more valuable tool to build a title contender and we, as a team, have consistently ignored and undervalued the draft to the team's detriment

We attempted to rebuild thru the draft in 2008 and 2009, and it did not get us the impact we were looking for, so with 2010 free agency coming, we went in another direction.

i dont buy that. they spent those 2 years clearing contracts and ended up trading one of those picks in a salary dump. the point of those 2 years was geared to a rebuild with fa in 2010.

They drafted Gallo thinking he was a building block and possible future star. They drafted Hill but eventually traded him in the salary dump because they determined early on he was not the type of player they were hoping for, meaning they did not find what they were looking for in the draft. Had they drafted Curry, they would not have traded him in the salary dump. They were planning for 2010 (trading Crawford, Randolph, etc) , but these 2 drafts were supposed to be part of the future of the team. Knicks were not adding any salary until 2010, therefore, for those 2 years they were building exclusively thru the draft.

this seems too literal to say exclusive given the goal was 2010 fa for those 2 years. i say that based on your original comment, 2010 didnt just come up and they decided to abandon those picks late. they hoped they would work out along with what they could haul in during 2010. gallo didnt go till the anthony trade post 2010 fa. the mcgrady trade cost the knicks a future 1st too, all in the hopes of adding 2 max cats.

“We did it to clear cap room. We tried to get two big guys in here,” Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni told The Post. -- mcgrady trade

Both deals were made to clear salary cap space for the summer of 2010 for when LeBron James becomes a free agent. The contracts of Harrington, Thomas and Mobley all expire in two years which will put the Knicks in position to make a run at James, the most coveted free agent since Shaquille O'Neal left the Orlando Magic to sign with the Los Angeles Lakers. -- crawford and randolph trades, 2008

perhaps its semantics in terms of draft/rebuild/etc...

knicks1248 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Curry is a great player and I remember the disappointment I felt when we missed out on drafting him. It was when we had and Steph would have lit it up under MDA.

One pick higher and MDA might still be here today.

Hill would have been solid in the triangle, thats why I don't get excited about the draft, we suck at it in a major way. Regime after Regime keeps dropping the ball

Regime after regime dropped the ball on all aspects of basketball decision making. That's the point. If you trust Jackson and his team, then maybe they make good draft decisions for once. Well see, but the point is it still remains to be seen. But just because previous GM's made horrible draft decisions doesn't mean that current and future GM's will make the same mistakes. The past has no bearing on the future.

And whiffing on picks is a fact of the NBA but again that doesn't mean you quit all together now and in the future. The point is you keep going and keep trying. The likeliest route to getting and retaining a stud player in the nba is via the draft. When was the last time the Knicks were sustained contenders? Oh yeah, after we drafted Ewing.

How about a poker analogy. Pocket Aces will win a majority of the time. Lets say you have pocket aces and lose to someone with some BS hand. Lets say you lose pocket aces 3 times in a row. Does that mean you dont play aces in the future? No, of course not. You continue to play and bet pocket aces as heavy as possible every time you get them. Because in the long run you'll get value out of them more often than not.

Out of that 2003 draft, 6O players were drafted, only wade, bron, bosh and luke walton (and now boris diaw) have rings..after sweentney (#9 over all) only David west(#18) josh howard(not even in the league) made 1 all star game. No other player in that draft have had any real impact for there respsected teams, more than 70% of the players in that draft have yet to win a playoff series, and more than half haven't even made the playoffs

The draft is a tough place to build.

What? You're totally off base here.

What I said was that all the past NBA champions have had a key player or key players on the team who they drafted who contributed or were the linchpins to the 'chip. Don't believe me? Here:

2014 Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker, Kawhi, AND Splitter!
2013,2012 Heat: Wade, Chalmers, Haslem, Cole
2011 Mavs: Nowitski
2010, 2009 Lakers: Kobe
2008 Celtics: Pierce
2007 Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
2006 Heat: Wade, Haslem
2005 Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
2004 Pistons: Prince
2003 Spurs: Duncan, Robinson
2002, 2001, 2000 Lakers: Kobe, George
1999 Spurs: Duncan, Robinson
1998, 1997, 1996: Jordan, Pippen
1995, 1994 Rockets: Olajuwon

Should I continue? If you look at the runners up you will also see homegrown draft picks such as Iversons Sixers, Ewings Knicks, Lebron on the Cavs, Payton and Kemp on Seattle, Drexler on the Blazers etc etc etc. Also the NBA champs conference rivals such as the Blazers in the 00's with Rasheed, Sabonis, The Kings of the 00's with Peja, White Chocolate, The Suns of the 00's with Marion, Amare.

The list literally goes on and on and on. Yes drafting a star is no guarantee and it might take a couple tries but it is THE BEST way to build a team that has sustained success. Those are the cold hard facts. And of course these teams need to make savvy free agent signings and trades. That's also a HUGE part of it. But having stars for cheap when they are in their primes is a very big advantage. A giant advantage. Generally, when a team poaches a star free agent from another team they get them around age 30 and thus have them signed through the end of their primes, which begets a small window for a run.

Vmart wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Curry is a great player and I remember the disappointment I felt when we missed out on drafting him. It was when we had and Steph would have lit it up under MDA.

One pick higher and MDA might still be here today.

Hill would have been solid in the triangle, thats why I don't get excited about the draft, we suck at it in a major way. Regime after Regime keeps dropping the ball

Regime after regime dropped the ball on all aspects of basketball decision making. That's the point. If you trust Jackson and his team, then maybe they make good draft decisions for once. Well see, but the point is it still remains to be seen. But just because previous GM's made horrible draft decisions doesn't mean that current and future GM's will make the same mistakes. The past has no bearing on the future.

And whiffing on picks is a fact of the NBA but again that doesn't mean you quit all together now and in the future. The point is you keep going and keep trying. The likeliest route to getting and retaining a stud player in the nba is via the draft. When was the last time the Knicks were sustained contenders? Oh yeah, after we drafted Ewing.

How about a poker analogy. Pocket Aces will win a majority of the time. Lets say you have pocket aces and lose to someone with some BS hand. Lets say you lose pocket aces 3 times in a row. Does that mean you dont play aces in the future? No, of course not. You continue to play and bet pocket aces as heavy as possible every time you get them. Because in the long run you'll get value out of them more often than not.

Out of that 2003 draft, 6O players were drafted, only wade, bron, bosh and luke walton (and now boris diaw) have rings..after sweentney (#9 over all) only David west(#18) josh howard(not even in the league) made 1 all star game. No other player in that draft have had any real impact for there respsected teams, more than 70% of the players in that draft have yet to win a playoff series, and more than half haven't even made the playoffs

The draft is a tough place to build.

What? You're totally off base here.

What I said was that all the past NBA champions have had a key player or key players on the team who they drafted who contributed or were the linchpins to the 'chip. Don't believe me? Here:

2014 Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker, Kawhi, AND Splitter!
2013,2012 Heat: Wade, Chalmers, Haslem, Cole
2011 Mavs: Nowitski
2010, 2009 Lakers: Kobe
2008 Celtics: Pierce
2007 Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
2006 Heat: Wade, Haslem
2005 Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
2004 Pistons: Hamilton, Prince
2003 Spurs: Duncan, Robinson
2002, 2001, 2000 Lakers: Kobe, George
1999 Spurs: Duncan, Robinson
1998, 1997, 1996: Jordan, Pippen
1995, 1994 Rockets: Olajuwon

Should I continue? If you look at the runners up you will also see homegrown draft picks such as Iversons Sixers, Ewings Knicks, Lebron on the Cavs, Payton and Kemp on Seattle, Drexler on the Blazers etc etc etc. Also the NBA champs conference rivals such as the Blazers in the 00's with Rasheed, Sabonis, The Kings of the 00's with Peja, White Chocolate, The Suns of the 00's with Marion, Amare.

The list literally goes on and on and on. Yes drafting a star is no guarantee and it might take a couple tries but it is THE BEST way to build a team that has sustained success. Those are the cold hard facts. And of course these teams need to make savvy free agent signings and trades. That's also a HUGE part of it. But having stars for cheap when they are in their primes is a very big advantage. A giant advantage. Generally, when a team poaches a star free agent from another team they get them around age 30 and thus have them signed through the end of their primes, which begets a small window for a run.

Very good but I believe that Hamilton on the Pistons was Washington Wizards pick.

You're right, but they had Darko! Seriously tho, I edited my post. Thanks.