knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:There is a contingent of folks around here that would disagree with you. I think it's a tough transition from bad to consistently good. There are a lot of young teams in the East. It's gonna take some time for some of these teams to really hit their stride. Some may never find it but some will.

Regarding the Knicks I think in the end they will improve enough to be a playoff team and that's what Phil wants for this year. I don't think he's as focused on the draft as some Knick fans. I think he want some success so he can make deals and convince FA's to come. The draft will be a part but not the centerpiece of his remaking of this team.

nix i know you are a very optimistic fan but even if by some miracle we get in it will most likely be the 8th spot. I hate to lose but i try to be objective in regards to this year. There is nothing wrong with getting a top draft pick AND signing free agents. It will help us get better quicker

I'm actually not being overly optimistic. I look at the East and the Knicks and What I see is that the Knicks still have potential to actually get it together and play at a much higher level. They have vet experience and when they get healthier and more acclimated to the system and each other I can see them going on a run at some point this season. They'll likely lose a bit more early on, but eventually they're gonna get hot. It should happen earlier than it did last year when they closed the season 16-7. I can see it happening much earlier this year and lasting for a few months rather than just a small period of time like last year.

Is the Knicks the only team you see making a run at some point during this season? Even last years team won 5 in row long before that 16-7 stretch and still only won 37 games. Imo you aren't realistic, the NBA is a landscape of teams that thrive on talent to win firstly and the Knicks lack quite a bit of it. the knicks could get hot, all teams do.

Health certainly cant be relied upon, depth is..which the Knicks have very little of. They didnt have a replacement for Calderon, imagine if Melo does take some time off which will happen sooner or later.

Nixluva not being realistic? Isn't that redundant?

knickscity wrote:Is the Knicks the only team you see making a run at some point during this season? Even last years team won 5 in row long before that 16-7 stretch and still only won 37 games. Imo you aren't realistic, the NBA is a landscape of teams that thrive on talent to win firstly and the Knicks lack quite a bit of it. the knicks could get hot, all teams do.

Health certainly cant be relied upon, depth is..which the Knicks have very little of. They didnt have a replacement for Calderon, imagine if Melo does take some time off which will happen sooner or later.

When the Knicks are something like 8-22 or 10-20 at the end of December, there will be far less pressure to play Melo for wins this season. In 2015, I think we will see him put on ice for a stretch just to let him rest when everybody and their grandmother will be seeing how the Knicks are way better off positioning themselves for a top draft pick. The blowback will be way lower at that point. It's too early to pull Melo, but I think it will happen.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:There is a contingent of folks around here that would disagree with you. I think it's a tough transition from bad to consistently good. There are a lot of young teams in the East. It's gonna take some time for some of these teams to really hit their stride. Some may never find it but some will.

Regarding the Knicks I think in the end they will improve enough to be a playoff team and that's what Phil wants for this year. I don't think he's as focused on the draft as some Knick fans. I think he want some success so he can make deals and convince FA's to come. The draft will be a part but not the centerpiece of his remaking of this team.

nix i know you are a very optimistic fan but even if by some miracle we get in it will most likely be the 8th spot. I hate to lose but i try to be objective in regards to this year. There is nothing wrong with getting a top draft pick AND signing free agents. It will help us get better quicker

I'm actually not being overly optimistic. I look at the East and the Knicks and What I see is that the Knicks still have potential to actually get it together and play at a much higher level. They have vet experience and when they get healthier and more acclimated to the system and each other I can see them going on a run at some point this season. They'll likely lose a bit more early on, but eventually they're gonna get hot. It should happen earlier than it did last year when they closed the season 16-7. I can see it happening much earlier this year and lasting for a few months rather than just a small period of time like last year.

Is the Knicks the only team you see making a run at some point during this season? Even last years team won 5 in row long before that 16-7 stretch and still only won 37 games. Imo you aren't realistic, the NBA is a landscape of teams that thrive on talent to win firstly and the Knicks lack quite a bit of it. the knicks could get hot, all teams do.

Health certainly cant be relied upon, depth is..which the Knicks have very little of. They didnt have a replacement for Calderon, imagine if Melo does take some time off which will happen sooner or later.

Nixluva not being realistic? Isn't that redundant?

It's also possible that other teams could hit the skids or have injuries that derail their seasons as ours has been at the start of the year. It's not like every team in the East is gonna get better as we move along. The very reasons i've given are based on the fact that this team has not yet hit it's stride and it's not about how other teams play it's all about how this team plays. When they are clicking they can play much better than they have and if they were healthy from the start there's no way they have this record they have now. They lost some of these games by very close margins that certainly could've been wins if they had Jose healthy from the start of the year.

Moreover who are these teams that are in the East which should make it impossible for the Knicks to play better and get into the playoffs?

EASTERN	                W	L	PCT	GB	HOME	ROAD	DIV	CONF	PF	PA	DIFF	STRK	L10
1	Toronto	        11	2	.846	-	8-1	3-1	2-0	8-2	106.9	94.7	+12.2	Won 4	9-1
2	Washington	9	3	.750	1 ½	5-1	4-2	2-1	9-2	99.3	95.9	+3.4	Won 2	8-2
3	Chicago	        8	5	.615	3	2-3	6-2	2-2	6-3	100.2	98.2	+2.0	Lost 2	6-4
4	Atlanta	        6	5	.545	4	5-1	1-4	1-1	5-3	102.3	102.5	-0.3	Won 1	6-4
5	Miami	        7	6	.538	4	3-4	4-2	2-2	5-4	97.2	96.6	+0.6	Won 1	3-7
6	Milwaukee	7	7	.500	4 ½	4-2	3-5	1-2	5-7	95.6	99.4	-3.8	Lost 2	5-5
7	Cleveland	5	7	.417	5 ½	2-4	3-3	1-0	3-3	101.8	102.7	-0.9	Lost 4	4-6
8	Orlando	        6	9	.400	6	2-4	4-5	1-3	5-7	96.7	99.7	-3.0	Lost 1	6-4
 	Brooklyn	5	8	.385	6	3-3	2-5	1-1	3-3	100.0	101.0	-1.0	Lost 1	3-7
 	Indiana	        5	8	.385	6	3-5	2-3	1-1	4-5	90.9	94.0	-3.1	Lost 1	4-6
 	Boston	        4	7	.364	6	2-4	2-3	2-1	4-2	106.2	108.4	-2.2	Lost 1	3-7
 	Charlotte	4	9	.308	7	3-3	1-6	2-1	3-3	94.4	99.8	-5.4	Lost 4	3-7
 	New York	4	10	.286	7 ½	3-5	1-5	1-1	3-8	95.4	99.6	-4.1	Won 1	2-8
 	Detroit	        3	10	.231	8	2-4	1-6	1-1	2-5	92.2	97.1	-4.9	Lost 4	3-7
 	Philadelphia	0	13	.000	11	0-6	0-7	0-3	0-8	88.8	105.2	-16.5	Lost 13	0-10

As horrid as the Knicks have played they still aren't out of the mix by that much. Granted I don't like the Knicks chances in the next couple of games but there is plenty of time for them to right the ship and start playing at a higher winning percentage. We've seen the Knicks at their worst and now we have a chance to see the team improve and start playing better and hopefully at their best over the next few months. There is still a very long way to go in this season.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:There is a contingent of folks around here that would disagree with you. I think it's a tough transition from bad to consistently good. There are a lot of young teams in the East. It's gonna take some time for some of these teams to really hit their stride. Some may never find it but some will.

Regarding the Knicks I think in the end they will improve enough to be a playoff team and that's what Phil wants for this year. I don't think he's as focused on the draft as some Knick fans. I think he want some success so he can make deals and convince FA's to come. The draft will be a part but not the centerpiece of his remaking of this team.

nix i know you are a very optimistic fan but even if by some miracle we get in it will most likely be the 8th spot. I hate to lose but i try to be objective in regards to this year. There is nothing wrong with getting a top draft pick AND signing free agents. It will help us get better quicker

I'm actually not being overly optimistic. I look at the East and the Knicks and What I see is that the Knicks still have potential to actually get it together and play at a much higher level. They have vet experience and when they get healthier and more acclimated to the system and each other I can see them going on a run at some point this season. They'll likely lose a bit more early on, but eventually they're gonna get hot. It should happen earlier than it did last year when they closed the season 16-7. I can see it happening much earlier this year and lasting for a few months rather than just a small period of time like last year.

Is the Knicks the only team you see making a run at some point during this season? Even last years team won 5 in row long before that 16-7 stretch and still only won 37 games. Imo you aren't realistic, the NBA is a landscape of teams that thrive on talent to win firstly and the Knicks lack quite a bit of it. the knicks could get hot, all teams do.

Health certainly cant be relied upon, depth is..which the Knicks have very little of. They didnt have a replacement for Calderon, imagine if Melo does take some time off which will happen sooner or later.

Nixluva not being realistic? Isn't that redundant?

It's also possible that other teams could hit the skids or have injuries that derail their seasons as ours has been at the start of the year. It's not like every team in the East is gonna get better as we move along. The very reasons i've given are based on the fact that this team has not yet hit it's stride and it's not about how other teams play it's all about how this team plays. When they are clicking they can play much better than they have and if they were healthy from the start there's no way they have this record they have now. They lost some of these games by very close margins that certainly could've been wins if they had Jose healthy from the start of the year.

Moreover who are these teams that are in the East which should make it impossible for the Knicks to play better and get into the playoffs?

EASTERN	                W	L	PCT	GB	HOME	ROAD	DIV	CONF	PF	PA	DIFF	STRK	L10
1	Toronto	        11	2	.846	-	8-1	3-1	2-0	8-2	106.9	94.7	+12.2	Won 4	9-1
2	Washington	9	3	.750	1 ½	5-1	4-2	2-1	9-2	99.3	95.9	+3.4	Won 2	8-2
3	Chicago	        8	5	.615	3	2-3	6-2	2-2	6-3	100.2	98.2	+2.0	Lost 2	6-4
4	Atlanta	        6	5	.545	4	5-1	1-4	1-1	5-3	102.3	102.5	-0.3	Won 1	6-4
5	Miami	        7	6	.538	4	3-4	4-2	2-2	5-4	97.2	96.6	+0.6	Won 1	3-7
6	Milwaukee	7	7	.500	4 ½	4-2	3-5	1-2	5-7	95.6	99.4	-3.8	Lost 2	5-5
7	Cleveland	5	7	.417	5 ½	2-4	3-3	1-0	3-3	101.8	102.7	-0.9	Lost 4	4-6
8	Orlando	        6	9	.400	6	2-4	4-5	1-3	5-7	96.7	99.7	-3.0	Lost 1	6-4
 	Brooklyn	5	8	.385	6	3-3	2-5	1-1	3-3	100.0	101.0	-1.0	Lost 1	3-7
 	Indiana	        5	8	.385	6	3-5	2-3	1-1	4-5	90.9	94.0	-3.1	Lost 1	4-6
 	Boston	        4	7	.364	6	2-4	2-3	2-1	4-2	106.2	108.4	-2.2	Lost 1	3-7
 	Charlotte	4	9	.308	7	3-3	1-6	2-1	3-3	94.4	99.8	-5.4	Lost 4	3-7
 	New York	4	10	.286	7 ½	3-5	1-5	1-1	3-8	95.4	99.6	-4.1	Won 1	2-8
 	Detroit	        3	10	.231	8	2-4	1-6	1-1	2-5	92.2	97.1	-4.9	Lost 4	3-7
 	Philadelphia	0	13	.000	11	0-6	0-7	0-3	0-8	88.8	105.2	-16.5	Lost 13	0-10

As horrid as the Knicks have played they still aren't out of the mix by that much. Granted I don't like the Knicks chances in the next couple of games but there is plenty of time for them to right the ship and start playing at a higher winning percentage. We've seen the Knicks at their worst and now we have a chance to see the team improve and start playing better and hopefully at their best over the next few months. There is still a very long way to go in this season.

The bottom line is the scope hasnt changed. Everything said on this board is coming to fruition.

Teams are withstanding their injuries because they have better talent, the Knicks are stuggling because of their talent. basketball isnt played with a bounce here or there and the record could be different...once that buzzer sounds, it's over, no do overs.

There certainly is alot of games left to be played, and with that will come some wins, but alot of losing.

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It has a a dleague team, it has 6-7 of the worst NBA teams. There are really only 2-3 teams capable of winning to get to the championship and none of those teams are really that great. I give Wash and toronto a lot of credit for the way they took their time and built their teams. Just throwing LBJ on a team guarantees nothing.
If there were any year the Knicks somehow couldve came in with a good team with an avenue to the finals--this would be 1. But they are just as shtty as the lower tier lottery teams.

The East is not Putrid

It's more balanced within it's Conference

There are no real dominant teams besides maybe Toronto

Who are proving some numbskulls wrong btw they haven't peaked

Yes the trend continues against the West as East being weaker

But nevertheless the West is going to age out

More rapidly than the East and the EC overall is on an uptick of dominance

The unfortunate set of circumstances for us

We are kind of a Prehistoric team(corewise) without enough

Inlfux of game changing youth nor do we have assets

Readily available to alter this course

Now things could change slightly through free agency

And should we land high in the draft but sure enough we are behind an 8 ball

People have been saying that (the bold part) for about 10 years now

I don't think anyone anticipated the longevity

Of the Spurs/Mavs/Lakers but soon those teams will bottom out in 2yrs

And while there is youth in the West

There is more of an influx in the East and will be in 2yrs.

This is when you'll start to see a rise

Unless of course free agency dictates the hold of power

But then you have Portland, Houston, Utah, Golden State, OKC, NOH who all have more talent then the young teams in the east. And have the type of players the young teams in the east are still hoping to acquire.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:There is a contingent of folks around here that would disagree with you. I think it's a tough transition from bad to consistently good. There are a lot of young teams in the East. It's gonna take some time for some of these teams to really hit their stride. Some may never find it but some will.

Regarding the Knicks I think in the end they will improve enough to be a playoff team and that's what Phil wants for this year. I don't think he's as focused on the draft as some Knick fans. I think he want some success so he can make deals and convince FA's to come. The draft will be a part but not the centerpiece of his remaking of this team.

nix i know you are a very optimistic fan but even if by some miracle we get in it will most likely be the 8th spot. I hate to lose but i try to be objective in regards to this year. There is nothing wrong with getting a top draft pick AND signing free agents. It will help us get better quicker

I'm actually not being overly optimistic. I look at the East and the Knicks and What I see is that the Knicks still have potential to actually get it together and play at a much higher level. They have vet experience and when they get healthier and more acclimated to the system and each other I can see them going on a run at some point this season. They'll likely lose a bit more early on, but eventually they're gonna get hot. It should happen earlier than it did last year when they closed the season 16-7. I can see it happening much earlier this year and lasting for a few months rather than just a small period of time like last year.

Is the Knicks the only team you see making a run at some point during this season? Even last years team won 5 in row long before that 16-7 stretch and still only won 37 games. Imo you aren't realistic, the NBA is a landscape of teams that thrive on talent to win firstly and the Knicks lack quite a bit of it. the knicks could get hot, all teams do.

Health certainly cant be relied upon, depth is..which the Knicks have very little of. They didnt have a replacement for Calderon, imagine if Melo does take some time off which will happen sooner or later.

Nixluva not being realistic? Isn't that redundant?

It's also possible that other teams could hit the skids or have injuries that derail their seasons as ours has been at the start of the year. It's not like every team in the East is gonna get better as we move along. The very reasons i've given are based on the fact that this team has not yet hit it's stride and it's not about how other teams play it's all about how this team plays. When they are clicking they can play much better than they have and if they were healthy from the start there's no way they have this record they have now. They lost some of these games by very close margins that certainly could've been wins if they had Jose healthy from the start of the year.

Moreover who are these teams that are in the East which should make it impossible for the Knicks to play better and get into the playoffs?

EASTERN	                W	L	PCT	GB	HOME	ROAD	DIV	CONF	PF	PA	DIFF	STRK	L10
1	Toronto	        11	2	.846	-	8-1	3-1	2-0	8-2	106.9	94.7	+12.2	Won 4	9-1
2	Washington	9	3	.750	1 ½	5-1	4-2	2-1	9-2	99.3	95.9	+3.4	Won 2	8-2
3	Chicago	        8	5	.615	3	2-3	6-2	2-2	6-3	100.2	98.2	+2.0	Lost 2	6-4
4	Atlanta	        6	5	.545	4	5-1	1-4	1-1	5-3	102.3	102.5	-0.3	Won 1	6-4
5	Miami	        7	6	.538	4	3-4	4-2	2-2	5-4	97.2	96.6	+0.6	Won 1	3-7
6	Milwaukee	7	7	.500	4 ½	4-2	3-5	1-2	5-7	95.6	99.4	-3.8	Lost 2	5-5
7	Cleveland	5	7	.417	5 ½	2-4	3-3	1-0	3-3	101.8	102.7	-0.9	Lost 4	4-6
8	Orlando	        6	9	.400	6	2-4	4-5	1-3	5-7	96.7	99.7	-3.0	Lost 1	6-4
 	Brooklyn	5	8	.385	6	3-3	2-5	1-1	3-3	100.0	101.0	-1.0	Lost 1	3-7
 	Indiana	        5	8	.385	6	3-5	2-3	1-1	4-5	90.9	94.0	-3.1	Lost 1	4-6
 	Boston	        4	7	.364	6	2-4	2-3	2-1	4-2	106.2	108.4	-2.2	Lost 1	3-7
 	Charlotte	4	9	.308	7	3-3	1-6	2-1	3-3	94.4	99.8	-5.4	Lost 4	3-7
 	New York	4	10	.286	7 ½	3-5	1-5	1-1	3-8	95.4	99.6	-4.1	Won 1	2-8
 	Detroit	        3	10	.231	8	2-4	1-6	1-1	2-5	92.2	97.1	-4.9	Lost 4	3-7
 	Philadelphia	0	13	.000	11	0-6	0-7	0-3	0-8	88.8	105.2	-16.5	Lost 13	0-10

As horrid as the Knicks have played they still aren't out of the mix by that much. Granted I don't like the Knicks chances in the next couple of games but there is plenty of time for them to right the ship and start playing at a higher winning percentage. We've seen the Knicks at their worst and now we have a chance to see the team improve and start playing better and hopefully at their best over the next few months. There is still a very long way to go in this season.

And this is further testament as to why you aren't being realistic. Look at those teams that are currently winning. Washington didnt start the season with their staring two guard in Beal, yet they are winning. Chicago has missed Rose for a large chunk of games..Pau has missed a few as well...yet they are winning. Miami has missed Wade for 6 straight games, and they are still well ahead of the Kicks. do you honestly think the Cavs are gonna struggle like this the whole year? The hawks made the playoffs last year WITHOUT their best player...now they have him back.

The bottom line is the scope hasnt changed. Everything said on this board is coming to fruition.

Teams are withstanding their injuries because they have better talent, the Knicks are stuggling because of their talent. basketball isnt played with a bounce here or there and the record could be different...once that buzzer sounds, it's over, no do overs.

There certainly is alot of games left to be played, and with that will come some wins, but alot of losing.

So given that logic, is it too much to ask to hope for the right amount of this meager talent to work out long enough for us to get to the playoffs? And then once the buzzer sounds on the season, and we then find ourselves in the lottery, we can all look forward to draft day mania like the pathetic GM wannabes but never wills that we are?

Instead of spending the next 5 months watching film clips and setting up mock drafts?

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's funny how ppl are saying the EAST is awful, but coming into the season, THE EAST was suppose to be so improved..LOL they have been saying the east has improve ever since KG came over, and it's only getting worse every yr

Yup; the same applies to the Knicks specifically too

I don't think so, majority of analyst and fans had the knicks doing worse then last yr,how can you even say that when we were projected to win 37 games last season.

BRIGGS wrote:What the NBA needs is new bylaws for

A. To ensure that a team like Philadelphia HAS to carry a Minimum workload of healthy players to start the season. If they were forced to carry 60-65mm in HEALTHY players--they would be competitive.

B. The best 16 teams make the playoffs regardless of division. Does anyone want to see the Knicks or any team make the playoffs after a 35 win season?

The NBA cant charge as much as they do and expect either to be reasonable. How about spend 290 on tix for you and your son and have to watch the Sixers--give me 270 of that back--thats fair 25 bucks to see the d league team.

The issue isnt where the teams come from but the fact there are too many teams in the playoffs. The best way to weed out the teams that truly dont deserve is to cut the qualifying number.

Take the NFL for instance....32 teams but only 12 qualify. 16 out of 30 teams making the playoffs is a joke in the NBA....too many teams qualify.

BRIGGS wrote:What the NBA needs is new bylaws for

A. To ensure that a team like Philadelphia HAS to carry a Minimum workload of healthy players to start the season. If they were forced to carry 60-65mm in HEALTHY players--they would be competitive.

B. The best 16 teams make the playoffs regardless of division. Does anyone want to see the Knicks or any team make the playoffs after a 35 win season?

The NBA cant charge as much as they do and expect either to be reasonable. How about spend 290 on tix for you and your son and have to watch the Sixers--give me 270 of that back--thats fair 25 bucks to see the d league team.

Your first point is unrealistic and unfair. OKC through no fault of their own would be completely screwed with that sort of a rule.

Your second point absolutely needs to happen. Who the hell wants to watch crappy 37-, 38-win teams get stomped in the 1st round when there's an exciting 49-win Suns team out of the playoffs in the West? I just took a quick look at the last 10 NBA seasons and almost every year there's an Eastern team that makes the playoffs under .500 (2003-04: Knicks - 39 wins, Celtics 36 wins; 2005-06: Milwaukee - 40 wins; 2006-07: Orlando - 40 wins; 2007-08: Philly - 40 wins, Atlanta - 37 wins; 2008-09: Detroit - 39 wins; 2010-11: Indiana - 37 wins; 2012-13: Milwaukee - 38 wins; 2013-14: Atlanta - 38 wins) while a better Western team misses the playoffs. Even if the rule only went into effect if a team under .500 were to qualify for the playoffs it would still be a great improvement.