CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah and once they're gone then the summer of 2015 becomes the first real year of the jackson era. ho-hum. because then the issue becomes, unfortunately, a question of who'll want to come to new york at that point.

anyone have any idea who will want to come to a team that just won 30-35 games? as i have been saying for months, the knicks HAVE TO show some genuine upside THIS season, and dumping players like stoudemire, bargnani, and smith is NOT the same thing as demonstrating growth and a promising trajectory.

they have another 20 games to show something, anything, in the way of progressing, gelling, growth, cohesion. it's a given that their defense is putting them in a 6-7 game hole to begin with. does anyone see a .500 ballclub in the making here? i mean they're 2-8. to get to 15-15 after 30 games means they need to go 13-7 starting tomorrow by winning at home against denver. does anybody see that?

My guess, Phil and Fisher make a much better pitch than D'Antoni, Walsh. Also, unlike in 2010, the Knicks have two guys that are very respected in Melo and Calderon already on the team. Not sure that the 30-35 win prediction will be accurate. It certainly could be but it is a long season.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:We need top draft picks. Just let them come off the books may not be a smart way to use those players. If we can turn them into assets, it will better if you ask me.

nobody is giving up picks for our crap.

they will want us to take back their crap.

yes. we need them to just come off the books.

I am hoping the Knicks move Amare to Philly at the deadline and get something. It saves the Sixers around 15 mil but the speculation around this move has the Knicks sending a pick.

I'd rather keep the pick and have our choice of FAs worth $15 mil to sign

i don't think the Knicks take back salary that impacts 2015. It woukd be like last year when the sixers traded for Granger.

F500ONE wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah and once they're gone then the summer of 2015 becomes the first real year of the jackson era. ho-hum. because then the issue becomes, unfortunately, a question of who'll want to come to new york at that point.

anyone have any idea who will want to come to a team that just won 30-35 games? as i have been saying for months, the knicks HAVE TO show some genuine upside THIS season, and dumping players like stoudemire, bargnani, and smith is NOT the same thing as demonstrating growth and a promising trajectory.

they have another 20 games to show something, anything, in the way of progressing, gelling, growth, cohesion. it's a given that their defense is putting them in a 6-7 game hole to begin with. does anyone see a .500 ballclub in the making here? i mean they're 2-8. to get to 15-15 after 30 games means they need to go 13-7 starting tomorrow by winning at home against denver. does anybody see that?

My guess, Phil and Fisher make a much better pitch than D'Antoni, Walsh. Also, unlike in 2010, the Knicks have two guys that are very respected in Melo and Calderon already on the team. Not sure that the 30-35 win prediction will be accurate. It certainly could be but it is a long season.

crush getting a top pick will help us in the long run. I know you are very optimstic fan which is good but truthfully we all knew this year would be rough

An optimistic fan be very tough to figure out

On one hand they feel the powers that be can perform

Miracles unfounded, but when you present things that are natural

And not Supernatural they get cold feet, they have doubts, they wonder

They question, If Phil has the wherewithal to smooth talk his way in

Free Agency then he has the ability to hit a homerun in the draft right

The draft for some is a figment of hexing imagination

Very odd set of reasonings to see displayed

I don't think anyone that posts here would have called me an optimistic fan during the Walsh Dantoni years. I like the new regime. I loved the Tyson trade. If Calderon comes back and the team continues to struggle mightily I will be in the 30 win crowd. Not there after 10 games. Too many games left.

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah and once they're gone then the summer of 2015 becomes the first real year of the jackson era. ho-hum. because then the issue becomes, unfortunately, a question of who'll want to come to new york at that point.

anyone have any idea who will want to come to a team that just won 30-35 games? as i have been saying for months, the knicks HAVE TO show some genuine upside THIS season, and dumping players like stoudemire, bargnani, and smith is NOT the same thing as demonstrating growth and a promising trajectory.

they have another 20 games to show something, anything, in the way of progressing, gelling, growth, cohesion. it's a given that their defense is putting them in a 6-7 game hole to begin with. does anyone see a .500 ballclub in the making here? i mean they're 2-8. to get to 15-15 after 30 games means they need to go 13-7 starting tomorrow by winning at home against denver. does anybody see that?

My guess, Phil and Fisher make a much better pitch than D'Antoni, Walsh. Also, unlike in 2010, the Knicks have two guys that are very respected in Melo and Calderon already on the team. Not sure that the 30-35 win prediction will be accurate. It certainly could be but it is a long season.

crush getting a top pick will help us in the long run. I know you are very optimstic fan which is good but truthfully we all knew this year would be rough

An optimistic fan be very tough to figure out

On one hand they feel the powers that be can perform

Miracles unfounded, but when you present things that are natural

And not Supernatural they get cold feet, they have doubts, they wonder

They question, If Phil has the wherewithal to smooth talk his way in

Free Agency then he has the ability to hit a homerun in the draft right

The draft for some is a figment of hexing imagination

Very odd set of reasonings to see displayed

I don't think anyone that posts here would have called me an optimistic fan during the Walsh Dantoni years. I like the new regime. I loved the Tyson trade. If Calderon comes back and the team continues to struggle mightily I will be in the 30 win crowd. Not there after 10 games. Too many games left.

Knicks1969 wrote:New York city was not built in one day, so I believe it is unfair to think that Phil can transform this previously poorly mismanaged organization into a winner in one year. I simply hope he understands what he is dealing with; furthermore, I hope that he takes into consideration the city of NY when he assembles the team to his liking. We need flashy/smart and hard working players to play for this city. We need two-way players; not just specialists, IE. Shooters/scorers.

every team needs smart two-way players. the trouble starts when you start overpaying "names" who are themselves unable to meet those very fundamental criteria. plenty of those littering the nba, thanks to bumbling and/or greedy and cynical owners. knicks have been making the same mistakes since dolan got here. my guess is a prolonged era of blissful mediocrity at msg.

compare duncan ginobili parker-- smart two-way players who are also the core players-- who also sacrificed salary to ensure a deeper squad. 5 titles

this really ain't that difficult. all it takes is courage and patience, which in turn lead to "luck"-- ie preparation meeting opportunity.

Second - I think the only way we take back a bad contract is if the player is good or if we know we have zero chance in FA, which I really really doubt.

I would be somewhat shocked if we are able to move the first 2 mentioned guys. Can you believe we gave up a 1st round pick for Bargs??? What the hell were they thinking? We could have had Lowry for that.

Knicks1969 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:As some have said - First, the only way we get anything for Bargs, Amare (to a lesser extent J. Smith) is if we take back a longer contract. Now, a team may want to clear salary (of a good player if there is no other choice) and then take back the before mentioned. We would then have to make the best bid regarding teams who have expirings.

Second - I think the only way we take back a bad contract is if the player is good or if we know we have zero chance in FA, which I really really doubt.

I would be somewhat shocked if we are able to move the first 2 mentioned guys. Can you believe we gave up a 1st round pick for Bargs??? What the hell were they thinking? We could have had Lowry for that.

It is asinine the mistakes made by previous GM/coaches here in NY. They traded young talents for or gave a boat load of money to a group of guys they should have never acquired. I realized how stupid the head of this organization was when they made Allen Houston a $100 million player. How the hell are you going to pay a one trick pony that much money is beyond my intelligence. The dude played no defense, did not rebound the ball and couldn't do anything else but shoot the ball. Instead of learning from their mistakes, they turned around and repeated the same mistake by overpaying for another one trick pony in Amare. This has certainly been a frustrating organization to watch the last 30 years

Knicks1969 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:As some have said - First, the only way we get anything for Bargs, Amare (to a lesser extent J. Smith) is if we take back a longer contract. Now, a team may want to clear salary (of a good player if there is no other choice) and then take back the before mentioned. We would then have to make the best bid regarding teams who have expirings.

Second - I think the only way we take back a bad contract is if the player is good or if we know we have zero chance in FA, which I really really doubt.

I would be somewhat shocked if we are able to move the first 2 mentioned guys. Can you believe we gave up a 1st round pick for Bargs??? What the hell were they thinking? We could have had Lowry for that.

It is asinine the mistakes made by previous GM/coaches here in NY. They traded young talents for or gave a boat load of money to a group of guys they should have never acquired. I realized how stupid the head of this organization was when they made Allen Houston a $100 million player. How the hell are you going to pay a one trick pony that much money is beyond my intelligence. The dude played no defense, did not rebound the ball and couldn't do anything else but shoot the ball. Instead of learning from their mistakes, they turned around and repeated the same mistake by overpaying for another one trick pony in Amare. This has certainly been a frustrating organization to watch the last 30 years

Not disagreeing with you, but FYI it was $80M. Still too much. At the time, it was the contract heard around the world because it was so expensive at that time.

Knicks1969 wrote:It is simple, collect as many draft picks as possible to be able to move long term undesirable contracts. Philly collected a huge amount of picks last year, we should aim at extracting some of them. As it relates to FAs, We need to look to deal with teams that have good systems and good coaches; not losing teams with terrible leadership.

Aldridge and Gasol will not leave a small market to go to "media hungry" NY. They are not flamboyant players who like to run their mouths or are into business ventures. As expensive as this city is, as an athlete, I would not want to play there. This "stupid" media hungry town is always looking to tear guys up by fabricating stories. Bitch gossipers like Isola, Peter Vescey if he is still around or others make it unattractive to come to NY. We will have a hard time attrActing FAs

We can't offer Philly anything that would make them want to give up picks. They have no bad contracts and also have the cheapest payroll in the league. Boston on the other hand might be a different story. They have a slew of young players that need time and bad contracts like Jeff Green/Gerald Wallace that are hard to move and are taking time away from their young players' development. For Amare and cash, I think we could get Gerald Wallace, Brandon Bass, the Clippers' 2015 first round pick and maybe a 2nd rounder (or two crappy ones).

Splat wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:As some have said - First, the only way we get anything for Bargs, Amare (to a lesser extent J. Smith) is if we take back a longer contract. Now, a team may want to clear salary (of a good player if there is no other choice) and then take back the before mentioned. We would then have to make the best bid regarding teams who have expirings.

Second - I think the only way we take back a bad contract is if the player is good or if we know we have zero chance in FA, which I really really doubt.

I would be somewhat shocked if we are able to move the first 2 mentioned guys. Can you believe we gave up a 1st round pick for Bargs??? What the hell were they thinking? We could have had Lowry for that.

It is asinine the mistakes made by previous GM/coaches here in NY. They traded young talents for or gave a boat load of money to a group of guys they should have never acquired. I realized how stupid the head of this organization was when they made Allen Houston a $100 million player. How the hell are you going to pay a one trick pony that much money is beyond my intelligence. The dude played no defense, did not rebound the ball and couldn't do anything else but shoot the ball. Instead of learning from their mistakes, they turned around and repeated the same mistake by overpaying for another one trick pony in Amare. This has certainly been a frustrating organization to watch the last 30 years

Not disagreeing with you, but FYI it was $80M. Still too much. At the time, it was the contract heard around the world because it was so expensive at that time.

July: Operating under the management theory that if you pay a player like Michael Jordan he will play like Michael Jordan, shooting guard Allan Houston receives a six-year, $100 million contract. This proves totally wrong, as Allan goes on to miss ninety-seven games during its first four seasons before retiring completely for the final two, earning $432,900 per game played. (Kobe Bryant’s per game played rate last season: just over $230,000.) Meanwhile, as a witness in a trial, Patrick Ewing testifies about receiving a pair of complimentary blowjobs at the Gold Club strip joint while a member of the Knicks. Having recently traded Ewing, the franchise takes solace in knowing surely they will never have such a humiliating courtroom experience ever again.