2-8, plus whatever the hell our record was last year. What will it take to convince you?

markvmc wrote:Yes, it is really just the talent on this team.

2-8, plus whatever the hell our record was last year. What will it take to convince you?

Any explanation why the Pacers are 4-7

They are missing

Paul George
David West
George Hill
Rodney Stuckey
C.J. Miles

All of whom have been out all yr

or missed multiple games this season

GetThePipe wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:a grossly overpaid/overhyped Gordon Hayward

Gordon is balling out of his mind.

Favors has certainly taken a step this season too. And Dante Exum looks like he has superstar potential. The kid is barely 20. Gobert is another guy who looks like the perfect center for the modern NBA if he continues to develop. Utah has a ton of nice building blocks right now.

Trashing Utah shows that FireWoodson is totally off the deep end in terms of evaluation. I'm starting to think its a gimmick account.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

There is no talent on this team except Melo. This is a bad team but a lottery team.

That's interesting coming from you who repeatedly went out of their way to attack me for my intense criticisms of this team's prospects.

Apparently I was a devil according to you for stating my POV before the actual games validated my assertions. Now that you've seen exactly what I predicted for this roster based on pre-season (inability to prevent penetration, lack of talent, lack of players suitable for the triangle, etc.), you say more or less the same thing just 10 games into the season.

You even had the unmitigated gall to call DK7th "dangerous" for espousing viewpoints similar to mine. Yet, now that everyone has seen how poor this roster is the consensus has quickly shifted a whole 180 degrees. And here you are right in the middle of the pack again.

Maybe in the future you'll bite your tongue when you get the urge to tell people they shouldn't express their opinions.

knickscity wrote:

Splat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

There is no talent on this team except Melo. This is a bad team but a lottery team.

That's interesting coming from you who repeatedly went out of their way to attack me for my intense criticisms of this team's prospects.

Apparently I was a devil according to you for stating my POV before the actual games validated my assertions. Now that you've seen exactly what I predicted for this roster based on pre-season (inability to prevent penetration, lack of talent, lack of players suitable for the triangle, etc.), you say more ore less the same thing just 10 games into the season.

You even had the unmitigated gall to call DK7th "dangerous" for espousing viewpoints similar to mine. Yet, now that everyone has seen how poor this roster is the consensus has quickly shifted a whole 180 degrees. And here you are right in the middle of the pack again.

Maybe in the future you'll bite your tongue when you get the urge to tell people they shouldn't express their opinions.

Calderon is gonna be the difference maker, cant really judge until the guy who has had little to zero success helping teams be successful get on the court and help this team do what he's never done before.

Thats the narrative now, please follow along...lol.

I'm here, waiting for the Jose era to begin just like you. But I've also said that if they don't make hay with the last 8 games this month, December is a grinder month. That Jose still is AWOL is either bad luck or it is becoming part of a now intentional tank job, because putting him into the line-up in December makes it twice as hard with 16 games in 31 days against good teams.

Regardless, bear did their best to shame posters off the board and he was full of it and here he is now saying we're a lottery team. I think that bears comment.

Jose will give us more wins, but I doubt that many more than we'd have without him. But it sure would help right about now.

Splat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

There is no talent on this team except Melo. This is a bad team but a lottery team.

That's interesting coming from you who repeatedly went out of their way to attack me for my intense criticisms of this team's prospects.

Apparently I was a devil according to you for stating my POV before the actual games validated my assertions. Now that you've seen exactly what I predicted for this roster based on pre-season (inability to prevent penetration, lack of talent, lack of players suitable for the triangle, etc.), you say more or less the same thing just 10 games into the season.

You even had the unmitigated gall to call DK7th "dangerous" for espousing viewpoints similar to mine. Yet, now that everyone has seen how poor this roster is the consensus has quickly shifted a whole 180 degrees. And here you are right in the middle of the pack again.

Maybe in the future you'll bite your tongue when you get the urge to tell people they shouldn't express their opinions.

knickscity wrote:
Shumpert has filled in for Calderon better than Calderon possible could, and that's whose role Calderon will be replacing. He's already on record without playing any games admitting how tough the offense is to learn, so personally I hold little hope there, and it's a given he wont be a contributor on defense in any positive way.

As far as the mentioned poster goes, he's been down on the team since last season, of course the "fan" in him wont allow him to admit this team is awful with conviction.

but I really dont pay that stuff any mind, I knew this team would suck and they do. But I'd rather have a better team and be flat out wrong, but if we had a better team I wouldnt have said they'll suck.

Now that you mention it, but did anyone make note of the possible impact of Shump's absence in the last game?

Maybe there are two narratives there. One is Melo taking over happens when no one else is a scoring option. By extension, if Melo was not able to really get going with Shump on the floor, one possible deduction is happier just being the balls to the wall scoring option and doesn't like sharing the ball. I wouldn't overstress that point since Melo actually had a couple of games where he played well, but the majority of games prior to the last one he was sub-par.

The other narrative is we would have won with Shump on the floor. With Melo cooking, Shump's extra contributions would have added the margin of victory.

WTF knows, but the only X factor player we've had this year is Shump asides from nights where Melo is efficient on offense. It was fun watching Melo tie the game prior to the loss (Thanks JR?), but I have to think it actually doesn't bode well if the team has to rely on nights like that to even have a shot at winning a game.

F500ONE wrote:

markvmc wrote:Yes, it is really just the talent on this team.

2-8, plus whatever the hell our record was last year. What will it take to convince you?

Any explanation why the Pacers are 4-7

They are missing

Paul George
David West
George Hill
Rodney Stuckey
C.J. Miles

All of whom have been out all yr

or missed multiple games this season

Coaching, and furthermore, the GM ensured he assembled enough talents to fit the "defense" first system they run in Indy

Bonn1997 wrote:Look at the 50 win prediction thread. Many of these people now saying there is no talent on this team reached this conclusion not from a logical assessment of the roster (which could have been done before the season) but from a small 10 game sample.
I can guarantee you Papa and these other posters won't change. We go through the same thing every year where they expect a wildly inflated win total and forget the tone they had toward people who had more realistic expectations.

Realists who are straight shooters are rarely welcomed into the world of fans of any sport or hobby culture.

I have always preferred vision over hope. Most fans live off hope. They are the ones who are fickle, not the cold-blooded opinion mongers who speak it as they see it.

Vision means planning and patience.

Hope means denial until being forced into a reckoning which is hardly the recipe for success in any endeavor.

So that produces the irony you note that the Hope contingent is more flippy-floppy than the dissenters. They will trade away the future while shouting down people as haters and they lack the self-awareness to see the contradiction in their modus operandi. That's a broad generalization, but it fits many.

Splat wrote:

knickscity wrote:
Shumpert has filled in for Calderon better than Calderon possible could, and that's whose role Calderon will be replacing. He's already on record without playing any games admitting how tough the offense is to learn, so personally I hold little hope there, and it's a given he wont be a contributor on defense in any positive way.

As far as the mentioned poster goes, he's been down on the team since last season, of course the "fan" in him wont allow him to admit this team is awful with conviction.

but I really dont pay that stuff any mind, I knew this team would suck and they do. But I'd rather have a better team and be flat out wrong, but if we had a better team I wouldnt have said they'll suck.

Now that you mention it, but did anyone make note of the possible impact of Shump's absence in the last game?

Maybe there are two narratives there. One is Melo taking over happens when no one else is a scoring option. By extension, if Melo was not able to really get going with Shump on the floor, one possible deduction is happier just being the balls to the wall scoring option and doesn't like sharing the ball. I wouldn't overstress that point since Melo actually had a couple of games where he played well, but the majority of games prior to the last one he was sub-par.

The other narrative is we would have won with Shump on the floor. With Melo cooking, Shump's extra contributions would have added the margin of victory.

WTF knows, but the only X factor player we've had this year is Shump asides from nights where Melo is efficient on offense. It was fun watching Melo tie the game prior to the loss (Thanks JR?), but I have to think it actually doesn't bode well if the team has to rely on nights like that to even have a shot at winning a game.

Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise this season for sure....I do hope that continues.

knickscity wrote:
Idk, Melo's primary job is to score and eoverall he hasnt been doing it well. It is worth a note though that him scoring that much hasnt brought much team success though. He has the lowest win% of any playing scoring that much, and thats primarily due to him not doing much else when he does. It's either score alot or score less but more rounded game. A guy making as much as he is should be able to do both...and if he does we'll win more games.

Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise this season for sure....I do hope that continues.

Your explanation is as good as any as to why Melo is not the foundation of a team, but perhaps a superb addition to a team that already plays team ball. I have never gotten the fascination some have with Melo or the repeated assertions he is one of the best players in the league. All I see is a man with a single gift and not that much else. It's a wonderful talent and he is one of the best at one on one ball, but it is often lacking in efficiency. Efficient teams win championships. You don't build off inefficient scorers to accomplish that IMO.

While many here seem to remain anti-Shumpert, he has been very good statistically and is often the fighter on the floor and the leader. I don't know how this can be faulted even if I understand the reticence to proclaim him a reformed player on a major upswing. Prudence says wait for him to play a whole season before judging his value. But I like what I've seen and if he sustains this effort, he will be a quality NBA player going forward.

I noted Triple's post about Melo's feud with Tyson, hence the need to trade him. I have never gotten the vibe Shump and Melo are friendly at all. This may be a factor we can't entirely account for in terms of team chemistry. But I do know Melo very rarely looks to Shump on the court and if he doesn't start doing it, then Melo is a chump, because Shump is converting both on penetration and from outside.