H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

Did it take 4-5 years for Kawhi Leonard to become Finals MVP? Did it take 4-5 seasons for Damien Lillard to become an all-star? Did it take Paul George 4-5 seasons for him to become a supposed superstar? The reality is that most contenders have a player that was recently drafted who is balling out of control. We need to follow suit. No, the guy might not be an immediate impact player but we'd likely get better production out of him than we would a veteran filling the same role. The only difference is that the rookie has a chance to get exponentially better, locked into the same deal.

As for the top 5 players, they are not at all different than what I'm see on nbadraft.net

You are 100% correct.

I never get the argument that wanting high draft picks means years and years of futility. This, coming from Knicks fans who have suffered through just that because it's not like the Knicks free agent signings and trade acquisitions over the past say, decade or so have so successful and/or put us into contention. Time for a new approach perhaps.

It still boggles me how people are so opposed to tanking. Like you said, we've been horrible anyway and could've built a contender from scratch during the period of time had we not dealt our picks. Just to put things into prospective, two of last year's MVP candidates (Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge) were selected with Knick picks. A third (Gordon Hayward) looks like he'll be a quasi all-star himself. How much more of a sign do we need that the draft is a viable tool to build our team with?

I dont, but they do.

BRIGGS wrote:

knickscity wrote:i really dont think trading calderon is on the Knicks minds. they want to see how he works with the team and its offense.

I dont, but they do.

Having Bargs and Calderon would improve the team--but what do we get out of it if they comeback and we are 4-15

EnySpree wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

Did it take 4-5 years for Kawhi Leonard to become Finals MVP? Did it take 4-5 seasons for Damien Lillard to become an all-star? Did it take Paul George 4-5 seasons for him to become a supposed superstar? The reality is that most contenders have a player that was recently drafted who is balling out of control. We need to follow suit. No, the guy might not be an immediate impact player but we'd likely get better production out of him than we would a veteran filling the same role. The only difference is that the rookie has a chance to get exponentially better, locked into the same deal.

As for the top 5 players, they are not at all different than what I'm see on nbadraft.net

You are 100% correct.

I never get the argument that wanting high draft picks means years and years of futility. This, coming from Knicks fans who have suffered through just that because it's not like the Knicks free agent signings and trade acquisitions over the past say, decade or so have so successful and/or put us into contention. Time for a new approach perhaps.

With 73 games left you want to talk draft picks?

Leonard is on the spurs with their big 3 still intact. Lillard team matured just in time when he came along. Paul George also came on to a Indiana team coming together at the right time.

Can we talk about the cavs and how great they have been since Lebron left? How about Kevin love and his championship years in Minnesota.

You can flip it how you like to make your points make sense.

Bottom line is, it's only game 9. 73 games left. In January February we can talk about trading calderon.

Leonard's team has the big 3. Lillard's team has LaMarcus Aldridge. Indiana's team had David West, Roy Hibbert and the like. Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. So why couldn't our rookie be the compliment to our established star that those guys were to theirs?

And if you want to talk about the Cavs, would LeBron even have considered coming back had they not drafted Kyrie Irving and Andrew Wiggins? Yes, it's just 9 games into the season but the future belongs to those who plan for it today. And by acting now, we have an opportunity to avoid guys finding a rhythm that contributes to empty wins. We did that same nonsense in 2009 and it led to us missing out on the greatest shooter of all-time, who is also one of the best players in the league (Steph Curry). So let's just tank for once!

EnySpree wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

Those are the breaks. Just like signing Amare for 100 mil and he plays one season dooming us to failure.

And honestly I havent looked at this draft class yet (not like im en expert or a scout). But there is always a chance to draft a nice young player who might turn out to be a star. This can only help as we build over the next couple years when we have cap room and will be rid of guys like Bargs and Amare. All im saying.

If you haven't even looked at the draft class then what are you debating? Instead of wasting time in here why don't you go to your place of worship and get the praying. You're wasting precious prayer time in here. Just dig a hole and stay there until your prayers are answered. Then you can say you were right

Again, we've followed your strategy during the 2000s and missed out on Chris Paul by just 4 picks and outright traded LaMarcus Aldridge, Joakim Noah and Gordon Hayward. At what point do you recognize that your plan of spinning the wheels does not work AT ALL? At least teams that tanked have gotten one all-star caliber player. We've avoided it like the plaque and end up making dumb trades for Andrea Bargnani. And no matter how much you pray he'll never make a difference for us.

While it's true we do have 70+ games left and anything can happen...anything good happening isnt all that likely from an on the court perspective. the team just isnt a good one. Thus we go back to the one thing that is sure...we have our 1st round pick and the Knicks need to hit a home run with that.

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

This is fair. It does sck to think we have to consider the draft 8-9 games in. We usually sck and have no pick so this is a first in a long time.

That being said we have to see the team with Bargs at C and Calderon at PG to be fair. I'm not confidant that we will have sustained health especially from our FC but it would be very reasonable to see the team whole.

will calderon get guys to take it to the hole, will he get fisher stop with the different rotations every 2 qtrs, game to game, half to half..

Were not winning too many games taking 10 free throws per game, while the opposing team takes 30..or taking 22 seconds to get a shot off, or playing lock down D one quarter, then changing the line up for no damn reason, and watch the team do the exact opposite.

We have been getting wide open looks at the basket, more than i have ever see, the offense is great.. but we take 23 seconds to get a shot, and we never ever ever ever ever run.

EnySpree wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

Those are the breaks. Just like signing Amare for 100 mil and he plays one season dooming us to failure.

And honestly I havent looked at this draft class yet (not like im en expert or a scout). But there is always a chance to draft a nice young player who might turn out to be a star. This can only help as we build over the next couple years when we have cap room and will be rid of guys like Bargs and Amare. All im saying.

If you haven't even looked at the draft class then what are you debating? Instead of wasting time in here why don't you go to your place of worship and get the praying. You're wasting precious prayer time in here. Just dig a hole and stay there until your prayers are answered. Then you can say you were right

What's with the hostile tone? this has nothing to do with being right. The worst position an NBA team can be in is being mediocre. Not good enough to contend, not bad enough to get cheap assets via the lottery. And by the way this has nothing to do with me being right. If Im wrong and Calderon comes back and the Knicks own the league believe me I'll be ecstatic.

Secondly, telling me I need to know this draft class inside out in order for me to offer the opinion that high littery picks are generally one of the most valuable assets to have as an NBA team is pretty ridiculous. Further: The college season hasn't even started yet and we haven't even seen these kids play yet. Any draft board right now is meaningless.

Bottom line is my point has always been that this season is a transition season. Might as well add a high draft pick next season to the free agent acquisitions Phil goes after. It will make us stronger in the long run.

But whatever, I'll go dig a hole.

EnySpree wrote:What if the Knicks were 7-2? Would you still want to tank with 73 games left?

I'm all for tanking in January and February then you can trade whoever to get more cap space. I'm just annoyed with wanting to trade Calderón 9 games in to get a draft pick that you can't even come up with one prospect worth eliminating a whole season for.

I'm with Phil and we need to keep evaluating then make moves accordingly as soon as December when free agents and rookies can be traded.

All this complaining and as of today it's just 2 weeks into the season. Smh

Nope. If the Knicks were doing well Id rather not tank. 7-2 would mean we had a bunch of players that were a lot better than most thought. And I don't want to trade Calderon, actually, even if the team tanks. Id rather keep him and if the team plays well, it plays well. Id rather have a tank thats inadvertent and only due to the actual incompetence of the team. If that makes sense.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

This is fair. It does sck to think we have to consider the draft 8-9 games in. We usually sck and have no pick so this is a first in a long time.

That being said we have to see the team with Bargs at C and Calderon at PG to be fair. I'm not confidant that we will have sustained health especially from our FC but it would be very reasonable to see the team whole.

will calderon get guys to take it to the hole, will he get fisher stop with the different rotations every 2 qtrs, game to game, half to half..

Were not winning too many games taking 10 free throws per game, while the opposing team takes 30..or taking 22 seconds to get a shot off, or playing lock down D one quarter, then changing the line up for no damn reason, and watch the team do the exact opposite.

We have been getting wide open looks at the basket, more than i have ever see, the offense is great.. but we take 23 seconds to get a shot, and we never ever ever ever ever run.

Calderon will hit the three where Shane has to make the extra pass. Calderon sets up the bigs inside so that should help with getting to the free throw line more. Calderon is too good a shooter for guys to sag off of him. Also, I think once Jose is back the Knicks are set in the starting line up at every position except the 4. Not sure who would start there or if they are just keeping the spot warm for Bargs. Does Jose bring enough offense to start Sam and Quincy? Maybe with Shump being somewhat of a presence on offense the Knicks can play both he and Acy with Sam.

I predict that once Calderon returns, Shumpert's offensive game will regress. He will no longer be able to dominate the ball; as such will not be as effective off the ball

EnySpree wrote:What if the Knicks were 7-2? Would you still want to tank with 73 games left?

I'm all for tanking in January and February then you can trade whoever to get more cap space. I'm just annoyed with wanting to trade Calderón 9 games in to get a draft pick that you can't even come up with one prospect worth eliminating a whole season for.

I'm with Phil and we need to keep evaluating then make moves accordingly as soon as December when free agents and rookies can be traded.

All this complaining and as of today it's just 2 weeks into the season. Smh

If you wait that until January to tank, it'd simply be too late to do so effectively. Not when you have the Sixers actively trying to lose; not when you have 3 teams out West that will be bad by virtue of the talent in the conference. Like I said, the future goes to those who prepare for it today.