RonRon wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

RonRon wrote:considering we were the only team in the entire NBA that would give 3 picks for an amnestied target in AB, I would say there was no doubt that if we insisted on taking Lowry if not NO DEAL
At worse, we would give up another contract for a filler

That wasn't what was on the table

The trade was already agreed to but vetoed by Dolan

Who was overly concerned with media perception of getting fleeced

Panicking over relinquishing picks

He was reportedly consulting Jackson in the background who was

In contact with the organization since December of 2013

Jackson as has been publicly made known was/is high on Shumpert

Here was the deal

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/knicks-pursuing-trade-for-kyle-lowry-204933654.html

The Knicks have been discussing a deal with the Raptors centered around a package featuring Raymond Felton, Metta World Peace and either Iman Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick. Raptors general manager Masai Ujiri prefers the first-round pick, and Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski first reported that the Knicks had the pick on the table.

So we had 3 options

Felton/Panda Bear/2018 1st

Felton/Panda Bear/THJR

Felton/Panda Bear/Shumpert

Phil has made 3 major GAFFES[a fav word jargon of his]

Since taking on this job and/or coming aboard as a consultant

Of course bad decisions and improper assessments

Are made when one--groups get too emotionally wrapped up

Toronto wasn't expected to be contenders and Lowry wasn't suppose to be part of the feature of Toronto

However, as the season played out, they became the favorites of the Atlantic
I am not even saying the trade AFTER we traded for AB but before/during it

So you must remember that the trade for AB was before during the summer, when Toronto didn't think they would actually be contenders
Considering the assets we gave up for a player that likely would have been amnestied, I am positive had we insisted on taking Lowry with AB, with the 3 picks we gave up, it would have eventually got done
No other team would have taken AB and his contract and give back the assets we gave up for him besides for NYK's and CAA

As Lowry continued to play well in his contract year and Toronto's chances if making it in to the playoffs, it wasn't worth trading him at that point
But prior to the season starting, they would have taken deal, with some going back and forth
However, as they realize no one would trade for AB and give back the assets we gave up, they would have done the deal, as they still had Greviez Vasquez as their PG, Combo Guard Louis Williams as thier backup, along with Dwight Buckets

I see included in Bargs trade

Well Masai said the whole roster was in review

He wanted to see them play before making major moves

Bargs was an exception as Colangelo

Was already in the process of trying to trade him

Lowry wasn't on the table nor would have been included

When Grunwald contacted them, we're talking about Masai here

F500ONE wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how did phil block this trade when he barely new dolan at the time

lol where have you been, he knew him long enough

“Jim came to me with this opportunity of: Pick the position you’d like to take,” Jackson said. “I said: ‘If I want to make this change, and I think I can make the change, I have to jump in with both feet. Move to New York and do this job the right way.' ”

Jackson said he sought assurances from Dolan that he would have autonomy to run the team, free from interference.

“We had this discussion in January,” Jackson said, “because Jim knew I wasn’t going to come” without the freedom to make his own decisions.

Dolan said he was “willingly and gratefully” ceding those responsibilities.

“First off, these two gentlemen to my left are the experts in basketball,” said Dolan, who was referring to Jackson and Steve Mills, the former president, who will retain his role as general manager. “I am by no means an expert in basketball.”

Dolan added: “I think I’m a little out of my element when it comes to the team. I found myself in a position where I needed to be more a part of the decision-making for a while. It wasn’t something that I wanted to do. But as chairman of the company, it was something I felt obligated to do.”

Jackson said he had been watching the Knicks (27-40) on television throughout the season and was hopeful that they could make the playoffs. But he also indicated that the rebuilding process could take some time. He said he would meet with Coach Mike Woodson at the conclusion of the season to discuss his future with the team.

Why was Jackson watching them on television 67gms into

The season hoping they make the playoffs

I know I know I know past ties to the organization is what

You'll say, while that may be true I'm sure he had heightened

Vested interests knowing he was going to be taking over at the helm

There was a party thrown in December

When the idea was first introduced

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/sports/basketball/how-dolan-wooed-jackson-to-lead-the-knicks.html

The courtship began three months ago, according to Mr. Dolan’s and Mr. Azoff’s accounting. After years of watching his wife organize a party for friends that she called “Just Us Girls,” Mr. Azoff wanted to throw one of his own. So he invited about 150 of his male friends to his home in the Holmby Hills section of Los Angeles, including actors (Larry David), television executives (Les Moonves) and musicians (at least three members of the Eagles). Also on the guest list: Mr. Jackson and Mr. Dolan

Discussions continued got serious in January

All of this amidst Kyle Lowry rumors

You can be naive and think Phil wasn't consulting in the

Background but all the intel is here to suggest otherwise

The lowry trade was discuss in december, by january they started winning and lowry decided to focus on that. Dolan and every news media outlet knew that the main reason the trade was nix was because of the draft pick..so stop making stuff up.

fishmike wrote:

nychamp wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how did phil block this trade when he barely new dolan at the time

Yeah this. Source please proving that Phil blocked the trade. Thank you.

Also, looking back is boring and pointless, except for losers who need to say "I told you so." Can't change the past. This type of post is why such a % of this board is crap. Also your stupid formatting tic, OP.

How about what to do looking forward? Always makes for a more engaging debate.

this site was once a great community. You have a solid group of guys around here with 10+ years on the site and a bunch more with 5+

At some point most of the locals have met in person for pints, Knick games, pickup games and even a drunken sprint or two down 33rd street. Ive been lucky enough to form some quality friendships. (Unlucky in the case of DJ)

What you have now are a very loud sub group, mostly jettisoned from other forums who bludgeon you daily with their agendas and very anti-Knick points of view. Their primary MO is being right... about anything. What better way to troll than to come on a fan site, and trash the team daily and its players and constantly post this kind of crap to rile up the locals.

Good post!

No one is trolling the site

Please stop with the

There's a monster in my closet

I don't want to go in there talk

Provide dialogue that heightens conversation

Stimulates the mind to think along lines you wouldn't otherwise

Of course conversely there are those who only

Want to the Knicks to do well if their favorite player on the team does well

Or try to establish the parameters of when it's okay and

When it's not to okay to bash certain guys

This evening maybe I'll pay my barber and the patrons a visit

Pick up on some fresh new Shump hate and run it by you tomorrow

knicks1248 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how did phil block this trade when he barely new dolan at the time

lol where have you been, he knew him long enough

“Jim came to me with this opportunity of: Pick the position you’d like to take,” Jackson said. “I said: ‘If I want to make this change, and I think I can make the change, I have to jump in with both feet. Move to New York and do this job the right way.' ”

Jackson said he sought assurances from Dolan that he would have autonomy to run the team, free from interference.

“We had this discussion in January,” Jackson said, “because Jim knew I wasn’t going to come” without the freedom to make his own decisions.

Dolan said he was “willingly and gratefully” ceding those responsibilities.

“First off, these two gentlemen to my left are the experts in basketball,” said Dolan, who was referring to Jackson and Steve Mills, the former president, who will retain his role as general manager. “I am by no means an expert in basketball.”

Dolan added: “I think I’m a little out of my element when it comes to the team. I found myself in a position where I needed to be more a part of the decision-making for a while. It wasn’t something that I wanted to do. But as chairman of the company, it was something I felt obligated to do.”

Jackson said he had been watching the Knicks (27-40) on television throughout the season and was hopeful that they could make the playoffs. But he also indicated that the rebuilding process could take some time. He said he would meet with Coach Mike Woodson at the conclusion of the season to discuss his future with the team.

Why was Jackson watching them on television 67gms into

The season hoping they make the playoffs

I know I know I know past ties to the organization is what

You'll say, while that may be true I'm sure he had heightened

Vested interests knowing he was going to be taking over at the helm

There was a party thrown in December

When the idea was first introduced

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/sports/basketball/how-dolan-wooed-jackson-to-lead-the-knicks.html

The courtship began three months ago, according to Mr. Dolan’s and Mr. Azoff’s accounting. After years of watching his wife organize a party for friends that she called “Just Us Girls,” Mr. Azoff wanted to throw one of his own. So he invited about 150 of his male friends to his home in the Holmby Hills section of Los Angeles, including actors (Larry David), television executives (Les Moonves) and musicians (at least three members of the Eagles). Also on the guest list: Mr. Jackson and Mr. Dolan

Discussions continued got serious in January

All of this amidst Kyle Lowry rumors

You can be naive and think Phil wasn't consulting in the

Background but all the intel is here to suggest otherwise

The lowry trade was discuss in december, by january they started winning and lowry decided to focus on that. Dolan and every news media outlet knew that the main reason the trade was nix was because of the draft pick..so stop making stuff up.

Phil was in the loop at that point, its obvious.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nychamp wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how did phil block this trade when he barely new dolan at the time

Yeah this. Source please proving that Phil blocked the trade. Thank you.

Also, looking back is boring and pointless, except for losers who need to say "I told you so." Can't change the past. This type of post is why such a % of this board is crap. Also your stupid formatting tic, OP.

How about what to do looking forward? Always makes for a more engaging debate.

this site was once a great community. You have a solid group of guys around here with 10+ years on the site and a bunch more with 5+

At some point most of the locals have met in person for pints, Knick games, pickup games and even a drunken sprint or two down 33rd street. Ive been lucky enough to form some quality friendships. (Unlucky in the case of DJ)

What you have now are a very loud sub group, mostly jettisoned from other forums who bludgeon you daily with their agendas and very anti-Knick points of view. Their primary MO is being right... about anything. What better way to troll than to come on a fan site, and trash the team daily and its players and constantly post this kind of crap to rile up the locals.

Good post!

It's clear that SPLAT and F5 are here to critique every flaw to any player in a knick uniform, no matter how good or bad they are

who should they be complementing? Shump? Maybe Shump but everyone else is sucking asz.

In the beginning of the year when we one a couple of games and were playing well, everyone was complimentary.

Love when people need to defend a shytty team at all costs

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nychamp wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how did phil block this trade when he barely new dolan at the time

Yeah this. Source please proving that Phil blocked the trade. Thank you.

Also, looking back is boring and pointless, except for losers who need to say "I told you so." Can't change the past. This type of post is why such a % of this board is crap. Also your stupid formatting tic, OP.

How about what to do looking forward? Always makes for a more engaging debate.

this site was once a great community. You have a solid group of guys around here with 10+ years on the site and a bunch more with 5+

At some point most of the locals have met in person for pints, Knick games, pickup games and even a drunken sprint or two down 33rd street. Ive been lucky enough to form some quality friendships. (Unlucky in the case of DJ)

What you have now are a very loud sub group, mostly jettisoned from other forums who bludgeon you daily with their agendas and very anti-Knick points of view. Their primary MO is being right... about anything. What better way to troll than to come on a fan site, and trash the team daily and its players and constantly post this kind of crap to rile up the locals.

Good post!

It's clear that SPLAT and F5 are here to critique every flaw to any player in a knick uniform, no matter how good or bad they are

who should they be complementing? Shump? Maybe Shump but everyone else is sucking asz.

In the beginning of the year when we one a couple of games and were playing well, everyone was complimentary.

Love when people need to defend a shytty team at all costs

What stretch of the season is this? Its not still the beginning?

Nalod wrote:
If 500one thinks lowery was a great idea, then Im down with rejecting it.

500one vs. Phil.

You lose dude. Its a long road and three weeks into this does not define his 5 year potential tenure.
Your a short term hindsight genius. Nothing easier.

I'm questioning if we're properly assessing value

And no every decision Phil makes is not golden