fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Or Melo could continue to do what he did yesterday after the critique and drop more 25-9-7 games while the cap rises 20mil and we keep our draft picks. And Phil Improves the overall talent IQ and leadership of the team.

Not discounting that is possible. Aside from my reservations about his motivation and IQ, the one thing mostly outside of his control is father time. Slowing down for a player like him requires intelligent adjustments to your game. I lack confidence in his ability to do that.

and yet he's already making adjustments. It literally happening under your nose and you refuse to see? He's on pace for career high assists and low TOs and you "lack confidence in ability to change." Maybe father time is having an effect on your eyes?

Maybe you expect a daily triple double? Im looking for you praise Melo here now, he's shooting very poorly and is the best player on a bad team but as someone here who claims to not have an agenda your saying you dont see him changing his game?

.... breathe ...........

I've complimented during game threads on good dishes and good defensive plays. It is not like I'm immune to appreciating any player's good plays in spite of a general opinion about them.

You are responding about the present tense, yet my post was clearly about the 5 year implications of age.

If he truly expands his game with consistency this season and has game winning assists, then I'd like to see him do that for five years. Why not? That would be great. I'm skeptical of him doing that though, particularly in regards to his own offensive moves. In that light, his contributions as a passer may become even more necessary and I'd like to see him push that part of his game.

A good comparable might be Paul Pierce. He has been able to get off his shots late in his career. Theoretically, Melo's game has enough in common that he could still do the same even as his mobility and athleticism declines. But I think Pierce is a more savvy player even if that was not his rep earlier in his career. It would be good if Melo did things that garnered him the same evolutionary results.

For that to be the case, I'd need to see Melo show full awareness in critical late game situations with consistency. If he only shoots whether he has a good look or not, I will still say his tendency to regress is there. He may be our stud, so he should shoot late, but if his game is complete, he will become more dangerous in tight situations if he becomes just as prone to hit an open man as he is to shoot it.

OK, you can sheath your daggers now.

Splat some have higher standards

Hence Phil didn't look at Melo's career stat sheet

And start doing 8gm comparisons to his career numbers

Phil is analyzing how Melo plays the game, how he thinks the game

We play a different system that by default will have players producing

Different numbers in different categories some for better or worse

It doesn't mean they've changed or are changing

Fishmike wants those like you and I, the cerebral to lessen the burden

Of guilt on Melo, henpecking game performances and specific stats to

Comfort the brokenhearted but won't do the same for other players

E.G. Shumpert who has also improved statistically thus far

Nope his reply for such player he doesn't particularly care for is

"Let's see what his numbers are at the end of the season"

For the record I don't care for either but the hypocrisy

Always rears it's ugly head with certain posters

did you just call yourself cerebral? Can you complete a sentence or learn the language first?

But yea... lets compare an established star to a guy who's had two good weeks of NBA under his belt. Cerebral indeed.

Feel free to wank all you want over Shumpert's 57% from 3 point. I apologize for not giving proper due credit as his career is CLEARLY on the right path now/////// happy

?

We're not talking about careers here

We're discussing currently, if the Triangle has

Had impact on the players running it or vice versa

Has their games changed towards the good for the 8gms played

If you're going to church up Melo assists and sometimish ball movement blah blah

Then you have to acknowledge Shump's improved shooting and ability

To be a more diverse player

Overall any good that either player demonstrates

Me personally I don't think it's sustainable

But of course I have no problem being proven wrong

Too often you play hear no evil, see no evil when it comes to Melo

What's likely to be eating at you at the moment, is the fact Shump shockingly to many has

Played better than your Carmelot in rusty armor who's off his jousting game

There's no need to give baby step progress golf claps to a 13yr veteran underachiever

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Or Melo could continue to do what he did yesterday after the critique and drop more 25-9-7 games while the cap rises 20mil and we keep our draft picks. And Phil Improves the overall talent IQ and leadership of the team.

Not discounting that is possible. Aside from my reservations about his motivation and IQ, the one thing mostly outside of his control is father time. Slowing down for a player like him requires intelligent adjustments to your game. I lack confidence in his ability to do that.

and yet he's already making adjustments. It literally happening under your nose and you refuse to see? He's on pace for career high assists and low TOs and you "lack confidence in ability to change." Maybe father time is having an effect on your eyes?

Maybe you expect a daily triple double? Im looking for you praise Melo here now, he's shooting very poorly and is the best player on a bad team but as someone here who claims to not have an agenda your saying you dont see him changing his game?

.... breathe ...........

I've complimented during game threads on good dishes and good defensive plays. It is not like I'm immune to appreciating any player's good plays in spite of a general opinion about them.

You are responding about the present tense, yet my post was clearly about the 5 year implications of age.

If he truly expands his game with consistency this season and has game winning assists, then I'd like to see him do that for five years. Why not? That would be great. I'm skeptical of him doing that though, particularly in regards to his own offensive moves. In that light, his contributions as a passer may become even more necessary and I'd like to see him push that part of his game.

A good comparable might be Paul Pierce. He has been able to get off his shots late in his career. Theoretically, Melo's game has enough in common that he could still do the same even as his mobility and athleticism declines. But I think Pierce is a more savvy player even if that was not his rep earlier in his career. It would be good if Melo did things that garnered him the same evolutionary results.

For that to be the case, I'd need to see Melo show full awareness in critical late game situations with consistency. If he only shoots whether he has a good look or not, I will still say his tendency to regress is there. He may be our stud, so he should shoot late, but if his game is complete, he will become more dangerous in tight situations if he becomes just as prone to hit an open man as he is to shoot it.

OK, you can sheath your daggers now.

Splat some have higher standards

Hence Phil didn't look at Melo's career stat sheet

And start doing 8gm comparisons to his career numbers

Phil is analyzing how Melo plays the game, how he thinks the game

We play a different system that by default will have players producing

Different numbers in different categories some for better or worse

It doesn't mean they've changed or are changing

Fishmike wants those like you and I, the cerebral to lessen the burden

Of guilt on Melo, henpecking game performances and specific stats to

Comfort the brokenhearted but won't do the same for other players

E.G. Shumpert who has also improved statistically thus far

Nope his reply for such player he doesn't particularly care for is

"Let's see what his numbers are at the end of the season"

For the record I don't care for either but the hypocrisy

Always rears it's ugly head with certain posters

did you just call yourself cerebral? Can you complete a sentence or learn the language first?

But yea... lets compare an established star to a guy who's had two good weeks of NBA under his belt. Cerebral indeed.

Feel free to wank all you want over Shumpert's 57% from 3 point. I apologize for not giving proper due credit as his career is CLEARLY on the right path now/////// happy

?

We're not talking about careers here

We're discussing currently, if the Triangle has

Had impact on the players running it or vice versa

Has their games changed towards the good for the 8gms played

If you're going to church up Melo assists and sometimish ball movement blah blah

Then you have to acknowledge Shump's improved shooting and ability

To be a more diverse player

Overall any good that either player demonstrates

Me personally I don't think it's sustainable

But of course I have no problem being proven wrong

Too often you play hear no evil, see no evil when it comes to Melo

What's likely to be eating at you at the moment, is the fact Shump shockingly to many has

Played better than your Carmelot in rusty armor who's off his jousting game

There's no need to give baby step progress golf claps to a 13yr veteran underachiever

Shump is not an improved player. He's a guy hitting shots on 2-7 team. Lets see him after 20 games. Or playing winning ball. He's a scrub who's had enough good shooting games to bloat his averages. He's a good defender and one of the worst offensive players I have seen in some time.

As for your sadness over me not giving Shump props I will when we start winning and he shows he can be part of that. And I didnt church up (you are foreign yea?) anything about Melo. I simply stated in another thread to splat that evidence of his change is there, and I agreed with him in that Melo has played POOORLY.

THATS
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ MELO

IS

PLAYING

POOOOOORLY

Get it? I tried to say it in a way you would understand

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Or Melo could continue to do what he did yesterday after the critique and drop more 25-9-7 games while the cap rises 20mil and we keep our draft picks. And Phil Improves the overall talent IQ and leadership of the team.

Not discounting that is possible. Aside from my reservations about his motivation and IQ, the one thing mostly outside of his control is father time. Slowing down for a player like him requires intelligent adjustments to your game. I lack confidence in his ability to do that.

and yet he's already making adjustments. It literally happening under your nose and you refuse to see? He's on pace for career high assists and low TOs and you "lack confidence in ability to change." Maybe father time is having an effect on your eyes?

Maybe you expect a daily triple double? Im looking for you praise Melo here now, he's shooting very poorly and is the best player on a bad team but as someone here who claims to not have an agenda your saying you dont see him changing his game?

.... breathe ...........

I've complimented during game threads on good dishes and good defensive plays. It is not like I'm immune to appreciating any player's good plays in spite of a general opinion about them.

You are responding about the present tense, yet my post was clearly about the 5 year implications of age.

If he truly expands his game with consistency this season and has game winning assists, then I'd like to see him do that for five years. Why not? That would be great. I'm skeptical of him doing that though, particularly in regards to his own offensive moves. In that light, his contributions as a passer may become even more necessary and I'd like to see him push that part of his game.

A good comparable might be Paul Pierce. He has been able to get off his shots late in his career. Theoretically, Melo's game has enough in common that he could still do the same even as his mobility and athleticism declines. But I think Pierce is a more savvy player even if that was not his rep earlier in his career. It would be good if Melo did things that garnered him the same evolutionary results.

For that to be the case, I'd need to see Melo show full awareness in critical late game situations with consistency. If he only shoots whether he has a good look or not, I will still say his tendency to regress is there. He may be our stud, so he should shoot late, but if his game is complete, he will become more dangerous in tight situations if he becomes just as prone to hit an open man as he is to shoot it.

OK, you can sheath your daggers now.

Splat some have higher standards

Hence Phil didn't look at Melo's career stat sheet

And start doing 8gm comparisons to his career numbers

Phil is analyzing how Melo plays the game, how he thinks the game

We play a different system that by default will have players producing

Different numbers in different categories some for better or worse

It doesn't mean they've changed or are changing

Fishmike wants those like you and I, the cerebral to lessen the burden

Of guilt on Melo, henpecking game performances and specific stats to

Comfort the brokenhearted but won't do the same for other players

E.G. Shumpert who has also improved statistically thus far

Nope his reply for such player he doesn't particularly care for is

"Let's see what his numbers are at the end of the season"

For the record I don't care for either but the hypocrisy

Always rears it's ugly head with certain posters

did you just call yourself cerebral? Can you complete a sentence or learn the language first?

But yea... lets compare an established star to a guy who's had two good weeks of NBA under his belt. Cerebral indeed.

Feel free to wank all you want over Shumpert's 57% from 3 point. I apologize for not giving proper due credit as his career is CLEARLY on the right path now/////// happy

?

We're not talking about careers here

We're discussing currently, if the Triangle has

Had impact on the players running it or vice versa

Has their games changed towards the good for the 8gms played

If you're going to church up Melo assists and sometimish ball movement blah blah

Then you have to acknowledge Shump's improved shooting and ability

To be a more diverse player

Overall any good that either player demonstrates

Me personally I don't think it's sustainable

But of course I have no problem being proven wrong

Too often you play hear no evil, see no evil when it comes to Melo

What's likely to be eating at you at the moment, is the fact Shump shockingly to many has

Played better than your Carmelot in rusty armor who's off his jousting game

There's no need to give baby step progress golf claps to a 13yr veteran underachiever

Shump is not an improved player. He's a guy hitting shots on 2-7 team. Lets see him after 20 games. Or playing winning ball. He's a scrub who's had enough good shooting games to bloat his averages. He's a good defender and one of the worst offensive players I have seen in some time.

As for your sadness over me not giving Shump props I will when we start winning and he shows he can be part of that. And I didnt church up (you are foreign yea?) anything about Melo. I simply stated in another thread to splat that evidence of his change is there, and I agreed with him in that Melo has played POOORLY.

THATS
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ MELO

IS

PLAYING

POOOOOORLY

Get it? I tried to say it in a way you would understand

I agree I don't think it's a final conclusion he's an

Improved player, I think he's Jerome Jamesing us personally

But let's hon in on what you said in bold

Every since Melo has arrived in New York

He's a player putting up numbers on a .500 sub .500 team

Add up our totals wins and losses

No Lin or Kidd to save us last year

No Lin or Kidd to save us this year

Being .500 or better in the East should be easily attainable

If Melo is who many think he is, but in his case it's been quite the struggle

Knicks need Melo to be what Phil Jackson signed him to be, not what anyone thinks of him. Im assuming we will need more than 8ish games to figure out what that role will be.

14-14 .500

36-30 He missed around 8-9gms this season below .500

Remember Lin took over 36-30 minus 9-1 in his absence he played like 1 gm during the stretch

54-38 above .500 lots of vets but okay give Melo credit

37-45 below .500

2-6 below .500

His time in New York who's henpecking you or I according to numbers

Why so stubborn, I mean what gives

nixluva wrote:When the rest of the team has held up their end we have won a lot of games. Except for the MDA resistance Melo has not been our problem.

Uh huh. He's playing like a $124 Million Man, so don't look at him.

nixluva wrote:When the rest of the team has held up their end we have won a lot of games. Except for the MDA resistance Melo has not been our problem.

the triangle presumably gets everyone more shots-- and better shots. what i have been seeing is melo taking more shots and many of them bad shots, and it is largely due to the fact that the triangle is not being run, and that includes melo.

yes he made a couple of really pretty passes for quality assists-- but i see bad shots as essentially the same thing as turnovers. and he took 5 bad shots, maybe more, in the second half, negating much of his assists. the knicks postgame crew are just horrible in pointing out this obvious fact, among others. they are virtually unlistenable.

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

Well, we are talking about the player with the largest basketball contract on the planet

If players were paid strictly by how many wins they produced then yea. But it don't strictly work like. Having Carmelo on the team boost the Knicks(NBA's most valuable franchise) net worth up by 100s of million. They will generate more profit with Carmelo on the team then the 124mil that was paid to him.

NBA needs to separate these two entities. The salary cap should be based purely on building a winning team. And there should be a separate contract based on market value. In order to prevent abusing it though it needs to be structured so that teams in bigger markets can't offer 20mil to Durant for his market value and 5mil for salary cap etc...

how does lining dolan/cablevisions pockets help us as fans? fans/media are getting on him cuz of results or what they expect the results to be based on his talent/contract. revenue/profit for the knicks isnt going to lessen that.

newyorknewyork wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

Well, we are talking about the player with the largest basketball contract on the planet

If players were paid strictly by how many wins they produced then yea. But it don't strictly work like. Having Carmelo on the team boost the Knicks(NBA's most valuable franchise) net worth up by 100s of million. They will generate more profit with Carmelo on the team then the 124mil that was paid to him.

NBA needs to separate these two entities. The salary cap should be based purely on building a winning team. And there should be a separate contract based on market value. In order to prevent abusing it though it needs to be structured so that teams in bigger markets can't offer 20mil to Durant for his market value and 5mil for salary cap etc...

how does lining dolan/cablevisions pockets help us as fans? fans/media are getting on him cuz of results or what they expect the results to be based on his talent/contract. revenue/profit for the knicks isnt going to lessen that.

Please show me where I said it helped the fans? Its the reality that we have to deal with, which is Y I stated the NBA needs to separate these two entities. In order to protect us diehard fans as well as GMs and Presidents that are trying to build winning teams which having to pay someone extra because they generate money doesn't help.

you didnt. i said it since im not sure why it matters what the rev factor is in terms of why folks get on him. being the highest paid player on the team raises expectations for results. when results < expectations you get what we have for the past few years hes been here.

the sal cap is a diff issue to me and not something he should get heat for.