TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lose the battle to win the war.

As I said before, that the best plan to rebuild and retool ( again, I accept that it's a crapshoot, but the current NBA system offers no real better long term alternatives) would be to

1) Never sign on Zen Master and Fish in the first place ( though Fish has done a nice job in his short tenure) The amount of dollars moving forces these guys to try to "win now" ( Otherwise what are you backing up the cash truck for?) Instead hire a relative no name young assistant GM from another team with a background in scouting, analytics and has a strong relationship with the other young up and coming front office talent across the league.

2) Trade Melo for as much as you can get

3) Never take on Calderon, trade Chandler, for as much as you can get.

4) Heavily mine the UDFA pool and young high upside players clogged on rosters with established rotations

5) Tank mercilessly

6) Try to jump into every trade you can, and try to stockpile draft assets, young players with upside on rookie deals and don't engage in anymore short term fix moves.

7) Infuse the roster with solid citizen low cost veterans who can enforce the locker room and play the right way.

8) Eat the growing pains and let your young talent play and work out their kinks and burn out their learning curve now

Every other alternative creates a three year treadmill of slow death and the eventual rebuild from scratch in 2017 or 2018.

Knicks need to PICK A PATH. ANY PATH. But one that has a direction. Right now they are in limbo. They want to win and they want to reload at the same time. I don't think it's possible under these conditions. The Rockets did it, miraculously, but they had a young saavy GM who is known as maybe the best versed front office head in the salary cap/CBA in the entire league. The conditions to acquire Harden and Howard were also unique and extreme, specific to their former teams and the league landscape at the time. It's not something that I think can be duplicated.

I compared it to a rotting tooth. Eventually you are going to have to deal with it. The Knicks are just letting it rot some more, for three more years. The complete retool/overhaul has to happen, it's just a question of when. I don't see the upside in delaying the inevitable ( while the league conditions for the Knicks tanking will still work in their favor, by 2018 there could be massive CBA and draft lottery reform in place)

There is no pressure to win now. Dolan is extremely fond of Phil Jackson like he was of Isiah Thomas. He was gushing on how hiring Phil to run the Knicks was like getting Einstein to do his homework or something like that. Other then Phil making the Knicks a laughing stock and holding a 100+mil salary while missing the playoff year after. Dolan most likely will let Phil do his thing.

The notion that you either need to completely rebuild or be a championship team is flawed as well. What we need to do is keep our draft picks and draft well, sign quality free agents, make quality trades, maintain flexibility to continue to progress.

Use the 20mil next off season to sign a couple of quality players to flexible deals that give you room to do so again when the salary cap rises again. Like Dallas has done with Ellis and Chandler Parsons over the last 2 yrs. Draft a good player. If good valued trades are available that give us better balance and improve the team while maintaining flexibility then pursue them.

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lose the battle to win the war.

As I said before, that the best plan to rebuild and retool ( again, I accept that it's a crapshoot, but the current NBA system offers no real better long term alternatives) would be to

1) Never sign on Zen Master and Fish in the first place ( though Fish has done a nice job in his short tenure) The amount of dollars moving forces these guys to try to "win now" ( Otherwise what are you backing up the cash truck for?) Instead hire a relative no name young assistant GM from another team with a background in scouting, analytics and has a strong relationship with the other young up and coming front office talent across the league.

2) Trade Melo for as much as you can get

3) Never take on Calderon, trade Chandler, for as much as you can get.

4) Heavily mine the UDFA pool and young high upside players clogged on rosters with established rotations

5) Tank mercilessly

6) Try to jump into every trade you can, and try to stockpile draft assets, young players with upside on rookie deals and don't engage in anymore short term fix moves.

7) Infuse the roster with solid citizen low cost veterans who can enforce the locker room and play the right way.

8) Eat the growing pains and let your young talent play and work out their kinks and burn out their learning curve now

Every other alternative creates a three year treadmill of slow death and the eventual rebuild from scratch in 2017 or 2018.

Knicks need to PICK A PATH. ANY PATH. But one that has a direction. Right now they are in limbo. They want to win and they want to reload at the same time. I don't think it's possible under these conditions. The Rockets did it, miraculously, but they had a young saavy GM who is known as maybe the best versed front office head in the salary cap/CBA in the entire league. The conditions to acquire Harden and Howard were also unique and extreme, specific to their former teams and the league landscape at the time. It's not something that I think can be duplicated.

I compared it to a rotting tooth. Eventually you are going to have to deal with it. The Knicks are just letting it rot some more, for three more years. The complete retool/overhaul has to happen, it's just a question of when. I don't see the upside in delaying the inevitable ( while the league conditions for the Knicks tanking will still work in their favor, by 2018 there could be massive CBA and draft lottery reform in place)

What the rockets did was they were prepared to jump on the opportunities even after making the "Mistake" of going with Asik and Lin. They overpaid for them but with only 3 year contracts. They also let Parsons go which had to not be popular with many fans.

I think your not saying to tank the season but we should have blown it up but that can be problematic in New York and Dolan would not have confidence to see it thru with a non starphuch. Phil has the stones for the job.

Perhaps at the end of the day if we are not contending we should not panic and look for a short term "Patch" but let what may happen fall.

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lose the battle to win the war.

As I said before, that the best plan to rebuild and retool ( again, I accept that it's a crapshoot, but the current NBA system offers no real better long term alternatives) would be to

1) Never sign on Zen Master and Fish in the first place ( though Fish has done a nice job in his short tenure) The amount of dollars moving forces these guys to try to "win now" ( Otherwise what are you backing up the cash truck for?) Instead hire a relative no name young assistant GM from another team with a background in scouting, analytics and has a strong relationship with the other young up and coming front office talent across the league.

2) Trade Melo for as much as you can get

3) Never take on Calderon, trade Chandler, for as much as you can get.

4) Heavily mine the UDFA pool and young high upside players clogged on rosters with established rotations

5) Tank mercilessly

6) Try to jump into every trade you can, and try to stockpile draft assets, young players with upside on rookie deals and don't engage in anymore short term fix moves.

7) Infuse the roster with solid citizen low cost veterans who can enforce the locker room and play the right way.

8) Eat the growing pains and let your young talent play and work out their kinks and burn out their learning curve now

Every other alternative creates a three year treadmill of slow death and the eventual rebuild from scratch in 2017 or 2018.

Knicks need to PICK A PATH. ANY PATH. But one that has a direction. Right now they are in limbo. They want to win and they want to reload at the same time. I don't think it's possible under these conditions. The Rockets did it, miraculously, but they had a young saavy GM who is known as maybe the best versed front office head in the salary cap/CBA in the entire league. The conditions to acquire Harden and Howard were also unique and extreme, specific to their former teams and the league landscape at the time. It's not something that I think can be duplicated.

I compared it to a rotting tooth. Eventually you are going to have to deal with it. The Knicks are just letting it rot some more, for three more years. The complete retool/overhaul has to happen, it's just a question of when. I don't see the upside in delaying the inevitable ( while the league conditions for the Knicks tanking will still work in their favor, by 2018 there could be massive CBA and draft lottery reform in place)

The Op is talking about this season. There are plenty of things that already happened that I would love to have seen handled differently (i.e. almost everything Donnie Walsh did). The Knicks are who they are now, no turning back the clock. In regards to Nalod's points, I think the Knicks will try to win and will play Amare at least until he breaks down. I don't know if Bargs ever finds a place with this team. He seems to be a very slow healer. The point has been made though that the team is much more attractive to free agents if it is winning and the culture is good.

Bottom line is phil in charge created a new era and a seismic shift in organizational decisions.
I have full faith in Phil and fully expect any regime to make "mistakes". They are so easy to spot in hindsight!!

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lose the battle to win the war.

As I said before, that the best plan to rebuild and retool ( again, I accept that it's a crapshoot, but the current NBA system offers no real better long term alternatives) would be to

1) Never sign on Zen Master and Fish in the first place ( though Fish has done a nice job in his short tenure) The amount of dollars moving forces these guys to try to "win now" ( Otherwise what are you backing up the cash truck for?) Instead hire a relative no name young assistant GM from another team with a background in scouting, analytics and has a strong relationship with the other young up and coming front office talent across the league.

2) Trade Melo for as much as you can get

3) Never take on Calderon, trade Chandler, for as much as you can get.

4) Heavily mine the UDFA pool and young high upside players clogged on rosters with established rotations

5) Tank mercilessly

6) Try to jump into every trade you can, and try to stockpile draft assets, young players with upside on rookie deals and don't engage in anymore short term fix moves.

7) Infuse the roster with solid citizen low cost veterans who can enforce the locker room and play the right way.

8) Eat the growing pains and let your young talent play and work out their kinks and burn out their learning curve now

Every other alternative creates a three year treadmill of slow death and the eventual rebuild from scratch in 2017 or 2018.

Knicks need to PICK A PATH. ANY PATH. But one that has a direction. Right now they are in limbo. They want to win and they want to reload at the same time. I don't think it's possible under these conditions. The Rockets did it, miraculously, but they had a young saavy GM who is known as maybe the best versed front office head in the salary cap/CBA in the entire league. The conditions to acquire Harden and Howard were also unique and extreme, specific to their former teams and the league landscape at the time. It's not something that I think can be duplicated.

I compared it to a rotting tooth. Eventually you are going to have to deal with it. The Knicks are just letting it rot some more, for three more years. The complete retool/overhaul has to happen, it's just a question of when. I don't see the upside in delaying the inevitable ( while the league conditions for the Knicks tanking will still work in their favor, by 2018 there could be massive CBA and draft lottery reform in place)

The Op is talking about this season. There are plenty of things that already happened that I would love to have seen handled differently (i.e. almost everything Donnie Walsh did). The Knicks are who they are now, no turning back the clock. In regards to Nalod's points, I think the Knicks will try to win and will play Amare at least until he breaks down. I don't know if Bargs ever finds a place with this team. He seems to be a very slow healer. The point has been made though that the team is much more attractive to free agents if it is winning and the culture is good.

Bottom line is phil in charge created a new era and a seismic shift in organizational decisions.
I have full faith in Phil and fully expect any regime to make "mistakes". They are so easy to spot in hindsight!!

you at least have to give him a couple years to work. This year he will have a clean cap to work with as only Melo, Calderon and possibly JR are under contract, along with the couple rookie scale guys.

I hate not picking up Larkin but its minor. This offseason he can add key pieces and potentially more the following. I think at the start of 2016-17 is a fair time to judge what Phil has done with this roster.

So far I think we at least like the coaching staff he's put together.

Its a transition year. This is also for fisher to cut his teeth. 4 gams in 5 nite stretch. I expected it to get ugly for while.
If it don't, im happier.