F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:we need a TS of 58+ as all the cool/smart/non-hasbeens people keep saying.

Consistently being 56% or above is better than league average

But according to last year 58%+ TS[35gms] produced results of

20-15 record 20-15>22-17[slimmest of margin]

Advanced stats are cute but Hella aren't they

My point is if TS% was a huge barometer

We should see a greater disparage of distance correlation

TS% in comparison to FG%

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Do me a favor what were these numbers

5th game of the 2013-2014 season

Link if you want to look stuff up on your own.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2014/

58 TS%
57 efg%
26.9 Ast%
31.4 Usage%
120 O-rating

Okay so obviously he's been close

To those initial numbers in first post last year and early last year

Which would be the case probably for his career

But here's a funny little tidbit

In games where Carmelo's TS was 57% or better[43gms]

Knicks record was 24-19

In games where Carmelo's FG% was 47% or higher[39gms]

Knicks record was 22-17

22-17>24-19 by %[slimmest of margin]

Like I said just highlight his FG% and maybe his ast, ast/to

That's all we really need to know, the advanced stats are

For extra entertainment to kill time and alleviate boredom

What we need is for him to shoot 47-50% or better

In more than half the games on the schedule

Fill up the box scores as best he can elsewhere

there's a somewhat hidden salutary effect to a higher TS% which is that it ultimately contributes better to offensive cohesion and morale. in other words dudes will enjoy playing with you more when you score efficiently and less selfishly.

excelling at defense can have a similar effect.

the positivity of this increases over time.

TS% becomes vitally important come playoff time because you need increased trips to the line.

+1

three point shooting is also crucial. He is an excellent three point shooter when he shoots them off kick outs.

3's and 2's are valued equally with FG% which is very misleading.

I don't want him taking bad threes but he needs to take advantage of the efficient ones.

there is no doubt that he has a beautiful shot just as there is no doubt he is in love with himself. a good coach and a good system to boot should "force" better shots his way. catch and shoots are not as glamorous but he is far more effective at them than many other shots he e unfortunate habit of taking, with the notable exception of his right baseline fadeaway. that is a shot he should be taking late in games especially. don't think we will see too many elbow-range shots off two screens going right to left this season, but that too was an effective shot for him.

one other thing i'd love to see him develop if an old dog can be taught a new trick is NOT leaving his feet on every damned drive and finding some pocket pass opportunities.

the reason why he is leaving his feet on those passes is because his intent is to not pass and he is only passing as a last resort.

I would love to see him attempt to create with intent to actually pass, not to just pass as a last resort. I don't think he can allow himself to attempt to create (initially) a shot for anyone before himself.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Do me a favor what were these numbers

5th game of the 2013-2014 season

Link if you want to look stuff up on your own.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2014/

58 TS%
57 efg%
26.9 Ast%
31.4 Usage%
120 O-rating

Okay so obviously he's been close

To those initial numbers in first post last year and early last year

Which would be the case probably for his career

But here's a funny little tidbit

In games where Carmelo's TS was 57% or better[43gms]

Knicks record was 24-19

In games where Carmelo's FG% was 47% or higher[39gms]

Knicks record was 22-17

22-17>24-19 by %[slimmest of margin]

Like I said just highlight his FG% and maybe his ast, ast/to

That's all we really need to know, the advanced stats are

For extra entertainment to kill time and alleviate boredom

What we need is for him to shoot 47-50% or better

In more than half the games on the schedule

Fill up the box scores as best he can elsewhere

there's a somewhat hidden salutary effect to a higher TS% which is that it ultimately contributes better to offensive cohesion and morale. in other words dudes will enjoy playing with you more when you score efficiently and less selfishly.

excelling at defense can have a similar effect.

the positivity of this increases over time.

TS% becomes vitally important come playoff time because you need increased trips to the line.

+1

three point shooting is also crucial. He is an excellent three point shooter when he shoots them off kick outs.

3's and 2's are valued equally with FG% which is very misleading.

I don't want him taking bad threes but he needs to take advantage of the efficient ones.

there is no doubt that he has a beautiful shot just as there is no doubt he is in love with himself. a good coach and a good system to boot should "force" better shots his way. catch and shoots are not as glamorous but he is far more effective at them than many other shots he e unfortunate habit of taking, with the notable exception of his right baseline fadeaway. that is a shot he should be taking late in games especially. don't think we will see too many elbow-range shots off two screens going right to left this season, but that too was an effective shot for him.

one other thing i'd love to see him develop if an old dog can be taught a new trick is NOT leaving his feet on every damned drive and finding some pocket pass opportunities.

the reason why he is leaving his feet on those passes is because his intent is to not pass and he is only passing as a last resort.

I would love to see him attempt to create with intent to actually pass, not to just pass as a last resort. I don't think he can allow himself to attempt to create (initially) a shot for anyone before himself.

so you are saying that he is able but unwilling? i don't like players going in there without a plan-- they are too predictable and frankly easier to defend.

only guy i have seen who can leave his feet and still create is lebron and even then it isn't that effective as he usually is passing to a jumpshooter and not a cutter.

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:we need a TS of 58+ as all the cool/smart/non-hasbeens people keep saying.

Consistently being 56% or above is better than league average

But according to last year 58%+ TS[35gms] produced results of

20-15 record 20-15>22-17[slimmest of margin]

Advanced stats are cute but Hella aren't they

My point is if TS% was a huge barometer

We should see a greater disparage of distance correlation

TS% in comparison to FG%

56% is great...
if you're making $8 mil a year.
Or if you're also excelling in rebounds, assists, or a few other categories.

If you make $8mil/yr you're better than average

Point is even great players have had yrs of 56% TS

I also said 56% TS or better and my cutoff

For the exercise was 57% TS, which means obviously you want Melo

To be above average at the same time we have to be realistic too

Bonn1997 wrote:Right now, his scoring and passing are very good. From an advanced stats perspective, the defensive ratings and rebounding are a problem though. Your starting PF can't take 3 games to get 8 rebounds.

Good thing he is not the starting PF. His rebounding has been unusually poor though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Right now, his scoring and passing are very good. From an advanced stats perspective, the defensive ratings and rebounding are a problem though. Your starting PF can't take 3 games to get 8 rebounds.

Good thing he is not the starting PF. His rebounding has been unusually poor though.

Fair enough. Acy is listed as an SF on sites but is the PF. Melo is rebounding like a PG right now though. It's too soon make much out of any of these numbers anyway

He is not missing enough shots for him to get his own rebounds.

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Right now, his scoring and passing are very good. From an advanced stats perspective, the defensive ratings and rebounding are a problem though. Your starting PF can't take 3 games to get 8 rebounds.

Good thing he is not the starting PF. His rebounding has been unusually poor though.

Fair enough. Acy is listed as an SF on sites but is the PF. Melo is rebounding like a PG right now though. It's too soon make much out of any of these numbers anyway

He is not missing enough shots for him to get his own rebounds.

Funny response, but actually a real insight. Melo's rebounding numbers are always boosted by him chasing his own misses, more so than most players I have ever seen.

2-3 a game.

Guys like Ben Wallace and Rodman probably had 5-6 a game.

Undersized bulldozers for their position usually get this rebounds.

Less bully ball = fewer rebounds. But ... not sure why he is not getting ANY rebounds (aside from that HUGE rebound at the end).

Maybe THJ is rubbing off on him (probably the worst rebounder in the league).

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:
2-3 a game.

Guys like Ben Wallace and Rodman probably had 5-6 a game.

Undersized bulldozers for their position usually get this rebounds.

Less bully ball = fewer rebounds. But ... not sure why he is not getting ANY rebounds (aside from that HUGE rebound at the end).

Maybe THJ is rubbing off on him (probably the worst rebounder in the league).

During the game thread, one guy was calling people Melo haters because we were talking about the things he could do to improve his game. It was just damn weird. He's paid $124M. For that money, I not only want my 25 points a game, I also want a handful of assists, a clutch of rebounds, a steal or two and my bread buttered with blueberry jam.

rebounds may or may not be there depending on numerous factors.

The assists that he misses out on kills me. That is what will keep holding him back.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Right now, his scoring and passing are very good. From an advanced stats perspective, the defensive ratings and rebounding are a problem though. Your starting PF can't take 3 games to get 8 rebounds.

Good thing he is not the starting PF. His rebounding has been unusually poor though.

Fair enough. Acy is listed as an SF on sites but is the PF. Melo is rebounding like a PG right now though. It's too soon make much out of any of these numbers anyway

He is not missing enough shots for him to get his own rebounds.

I wonder if this is a case of the eye test. What are the real stats on his oreb?

Also, given the way the Knicks have been shooting and giving up shots it is not going to be that many rebs out there. Where the heck is Felton at?

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Right now, his scoring and passing are very good. From an advanced stats perspective, the defensive ratings and rebounding are a problem though. Your starting PF can't take 3 games to get 8 rebounds.

Good thing he is not the starting PF. His rebounding has been unusually poor though.

Fair enough. Acy is listed as an SF on sites but is the PF. Melo is rebounding like a PG right now though. It's too soon make much out of any of these numbers anyway

He is not missing enough shots for him to get his own rebounds.

I wonder if this is a case of the eye test. What are the real stats on his oreb?

Also, given the way the Knicks have been shooting and giving up shots it is not going to be that many rebs out there. Where the heck is Felton at?

funny :-)

Its completely Eye Test which of course is silly if it leads to a conclusion.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Right now, his scoring and passing are very good. From an advanced stats perspective, the defensive ratings and rebounding are a problem though. Your starting PF can't take 3 games to get 8 rebounds.

Good thing he is not the starting PF. His rebounding has been unusually poor though.

Fair enough. Acy is listed as an SF on sites but is the PF. Melo is rebounding like a PG right now though. It's too soon make much out of any of these numbers anyway

He is not missing enough shots for him to get his own rebounds.

LOL! Seriously though he averaged 6.2 defensive rpg last year and but has taken 3 games to get 6 defensive rebounds this year. I did mention last year I was skeptical about the rebounding improvement because it was a contract year.