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We are going to win the Atlantic division..
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EnySpree
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10/25/2014  9:30 AM
Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.

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knickscity
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10/25/2014  9:33 AM
Winning the Atlantic really is just not impressive and even then is not likely to happen. The Raptors should win that pretty easily. now while I dont think the are ship quality, they do have a system that promotes a "no quit" attitude and their players have clearly bought in. Even when it isnt working they still run it. Their team in particular also has the making of a good team....just look at their ages on their roster. they 1 player above 30 on the roster currently...think about that, that team could easily be together for the next 4 years with no worry of a major roster shuffle. The Knicks have 7 players over 30 currently, and are nowhere near competing for a title. The Knicks dont have but 1 player guaranteed to be here just next season and will surely turn the roster at least twice in the next five years.. The raptors have 7 players to develop from ages 24 to 19, which are all under their control to keep....Knicks I'd say has 6 players 24 and under, but most are close to the 24 which doesnt give them alot of time to develop.

Anything can happen though, there people who've been struck by lightning twice, someone does hit mega millions and powerball.
knickscity
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10/25/2014  9:38 AM
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.


Melo is going to be the focus because he's the guaranteed player to be here for the long run. he is the key to the system working and his action dictate everything. it evens dictates who his new teammates will be. Do you honestly think Phil will be able to attract quality talent if they see the star not totally bought into the system?

And I totally disagree with smarts being overrated in the triangle....it's a dire requirement. Knowing where you're supposed to be and teammates spot takes a high IQ, reading a reacting is a skill, every player cant do it.
StarksEwing1
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10/25/2014  9:56 AM
I think this year will be a transition year and next year we will be a contender once we get rid of bad contracts. Obviously i want to win but as along as we show progress, develop youth, get a decent draft pick i will be happy
EnySpree
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10/25/2014  10:30 AM
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.


Melo is going to be the focus because he's the guaranteed player to be here for the long run. he is the key to the system working and his action dictate everything. it evens dictates who his new teammates will be. Do you honestly think Phil will be able to attract quality talent if they see the star not totally bought into the system?

And I totally disagree with smarts being overrated in the triangle....it's a dire requirement. Knowing where you're supposed to be and teammates spot takes a high IQ, reading a reacting is a skill, every player cant do it.

Basketball is basketball. You need s high IQ to win in any system.

The triangle takes all the guessing out if the equation. Guys are supposed to be somewhere at all times. No thinking involved. Every player has to buy in. One guy deviating from the plan screws everything. You don't need an IQ. You just need to go where you are supposed to go and play basketball

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smackeddog
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10/25/2014  10:45 AM
The key for me is how big of a hole do we dig ourselves in the first half of the season. It's going to be a rocky start for sure, and if we don't find a way of gutting out some ugly wins with our defense while we're working our offence is awol, then we will just have a replay of last year (but with lottery pick to ease the pain).
knickscity
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10/25/2014  11:01 AM
EnySpree wrote:
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.


Melo is going to be the focus because he's the guaranteed player to be here for the long run. he is the key to the system working and his action dictate everything. it evens dictates who his new teammates will be. Do you honestly think Phil will be able to attract quality talent if they see the star not totally bought into the system?

And I totally disagree with smarts being overrated in the triangle....it's a dire requirement. Knowing where you're supposed to be and teammates spot takes a high IQ, reading a reacting is a skill, every player cant do it.

Basketball is basketball. You need s high IQ to win in any system.

The triangle takes all the guessing out if the equation. Guys are supposed to be somewhere at all times. No thinking involved. Every player has to buy in. One guy deviating from the plan screws everything. You don't need an IQ. You just need to go where you are supposed to go and play basketball


You cannot be serious. Knowing where to be and your teammates does take IQ, what doesnt take high IQ is an isolation play which most of our guys have played their whole careers. And pick and roll, any player can run those. Every player cannot read a defense and react in symetry with his teammate on a possession by possession basis. there's a reason why the triangle is not run exclusively by any team but merely parts of it...it takes time to learn it and it isnt a system that's controlled from the bench.

The one thing this system will prove is whether a group of non superstar talents and subpar role players can run it with success. the Wolves tried it with rambis and it was dysmal.
smackeddog
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10/25/2014  11:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2014  11:15 AM
I was looking into the 1999-2000 Lakers to see how quickly they got to grips with the triangle. Unlike us, it seemed very quick with them- they won 67 games that season. Also surprising was their roster- outside of prime time Shaq and pre-prime Kobe, that roster wasn't very good:

Brian Shaw
Derek Fisher
John Celestand
Kobe Bryant
Ron Harper
Tyronn Lue
Glen Rice
Sam Jacobson
A.C. Green
Devean George
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
John Salley
Shaquille O'Neal
Travis Knight
EnySpree
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10/25/2014  11:20 AM
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.


Melo is going to be the focus because he's the guaranteed player to be here for the long run. he is the key to the system working and his action dictate everything. it evens dictates who his new teammates will be. Do you honestly think Phil will be able to attract quality talent if they see the star not totally bought into the system?

And I totally disagree with smarts being overrated in the triangle....it's a dire requirement. Knowing where you're supposed to be and teammates spot takes a high IQ, reading a reacting is a skill, every player cant do it.

Basketball is basketball. You need s high IQ to win in any system.

The triangle takes all the guessing out if the equation. Guys are supposed to be somewhere at all times. No thinking involved. Every player has to buy in. One guy deviating from the plan screws everything. You don't need an IQ. You just need to go where you are supposed to go and play basketball


You cannot be serious. Knowing where to be and your teammates does take IQ, what doesnt take high IQ is an isolation play which most of our guys have played their whole careers. And pick and roll, any player can run those. Every player cannot read a defense and react in symetry with his teammate on a possession by possession basis. there's a reason why the triangle is not run exclusively by any team but merely parts of it...it takes time to learn it and it isnt a system that's controlled from the bench.

The one thing this system will prove is whether a group of non superstar talents and subpar role players can run it with success. the Wolves tried it with rambis and it was dysmal.

You are stuck on language.

It takes time for them to learn where they need to be. That's it. It's an offense. Nothing magical.

Melo was doing fine until he started chucking threes when they started losing. Shump was dribbling way too much several times. Jr Smith totally was freelancing out of frustration.

The offense is simple. Guys just need to stick with it. It will take time but simply saying players need IQ takes away from what's really going on. Guys that have low IQ and low talent can maximize their talent because they don't have to think. They simply have to go where they are supposed to. The reads aren't complicated. It's just basketball

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knickscity
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10/25/2014  11:26 AM
smackeddog wrote:I was looking into the 1999-2000 Lakers to see how quickly they got to grips with the triangle. Unlike us, it seemed very quick with them- they won 67 games that season. Also surprising was their roster- outside of prime time Shaq and pre-prime Kobe, that roster wasn't very good:

Brian Shaw
Derek Fisher
John Celestand
Kobe Bryant
Ron Harper
Tyronn Lue
Glen Rice
Sam Jacobson
A.C. Green
Devean George
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
John Salley
Shaquille O'Neal
Travis Knight

It's pretty hard to grasp "outside of prime kobe and shaq". I notice one name in particular...Ron Harper, which likely brought on to help transistion the trinagle on the court, as evident by him being a starter. And it seems to team was littered with savvy player and guys who's previously won in the NBA.

To say "not very good" is seriously inaccurate.
knickscity
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10/25/2014  11:29 AM
EnySpree wrote:
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.


Melo is going to be the focus because he's the guaranteed player to be here for the long run. he is the key to the system working and his action dictate everything. it evens dictates who his new teammates will be. Do you honestly think Phil will be able to attract quality talent if they see the star not totally bought into the system?

And I totally disagree with smarts being overrated in the triangle....it's a dire requirement. Knowing where you're supposed to be and teammates spot takes a high IQ, reading a reacting is a skill, every player cant do it.

Basketball is basketball. You need s high IQ to win in any system.

The triangle takes all the guessing out if the equation. Guys are supposed to be somewhere at all times. No thinking involved. Every player has to buy in. One guy deviating from the plan screws everything. You don't need an IQ. You just need to go where you are supposed to go and play basketball


You cannot be serious. Knowing where to be and your teammates does take IQ, what doesnt take high IQ is an isolation play which most of our guys have played their whole careers. And pick and roll, any player can run those. Every player cannot read a defense and react in symetry with his teammate on a possession by possession basis. there's a reason why the triangle is not run exclusively by any team but merely parts of it...it takes time to learn it and it isnt a system that's controlled from the bench.

The one thing this system will prove is whether a group of non superstar talents and subpar role players can run it with success. the Wolves tried it with rambis and it was dysmal.

You are stuck on language.

It takes time for them to learn where they need to be. That's it. It's an offense. Nothing magical.

Melo was doing fine until he started chucking threes when they started losing. Shump was dribbling way too much several times. Jr Smith totally was freelancing out of frustration.

The offense is simple. Guys just need to stick with it. It will take time but simply saying players need IQ takes away from what's really going on. Guys that have low IQ and low talent can maximize their talent because they don't have to think. They simply have to go where they are supposed to. The reads aren't complicated. It's just basketball


Ok man, you win...the triangle is easy. Totally explains why no one runs it in the NBA in it's entirety.
Jmpasq
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10/25/2014  11:51 AM
djsunyc wrote:i see you strategically left out the year you will do it.

LOL , In the year 2020

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gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  12:12 PM
Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game
H1AND1
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10/25/2014  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2014  12:28 PM
Hey I'm all for being pleasantly surprised but I just don't see the talent on this team to be a contender in the east. I'm not even sure this is a low seed playoff team to be honest. Outside of Carmelo and possibly Calderon this team doesn't have one other player who would be starter on a contending NBA team. The Knicks may be starting Quincy Acy, for gods sake, a guy who couldn't crack the rotation on the Kings last season. This team is much much much closer in talent to last years squad than the 54 win squad. If you believe it's the other way around then I want some of what you're smoking. Cause it's some good ish.

This season is about seeing what we have an hopefully finding some diamonds in the rough, developing the couple young pieces we have (who aren't even bona dude blue chip talents--they all have question marks even THjr as much as I want to like him, let's be honest) and for Carmelo (HOPEFULLY) to learn how to play a different style of basketball than he's used to playing where his talents are maximized.

Not to mention the fact that the team is learning a whole new offense that is universally regarded as being difficult to learn. The good thing is that with our pick next season, our loads of cap space, and with a couple current team members possibly flourishing now that they have some proper support, we could become contenders in the east pretty quickly. Not to mention the cap exploding upwards in a couple seasons as a bonus. The real question is how long the Cavs will dominate the east and can we ever put together a squad that can seriously contest that team. Cause it's going to be an offensive wrecking ball.

Since dreaming of beating the Cavs is a pipe dream can I dream of the Knicks signing Durant and Noah when the cap jumps 20 million to go along with Carmelo?! Please!?
EnySpree
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10/25/2014  12:28 PM
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knickscity wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.


Melo is going to be the focus because he's the guaranteed player to be here for the long run. he is the key to the system working and his action dictate everything. it evens dictates who his new teammates will be. Do you honestly think Phil will be able to attract quality talent if they see the star not totally bought into the system?

And I totally disagree with smarts being overrated in the triangle....it's a dire requirement. Knowing where you're supposed to be and teammates spot takes a high IQ, reading a reacting is a skill, every player cant do it.

Basketball is basketball. You need s high IQ to win in any system.

The triangle takes all the guessing out if the equation. Guys are supposed to be somewhere at all times. No thinking involved. Every player has to buy in. One guy deviating from the plan screws everything. You don't need an IQ. You just need to go where you are supposed to go and play basketball


You cannot be serious. Knowing where to be and your teammates does take IQ, what doesnt take high IQ is an isolation play which most of our guys have played their whole careers. And pick and roll, any player can run those. Every player cannot read a defense and react in symetry with his teammate on a possession by possession basis. there's a reason why the triangle is not run exclusively by any team but merely parts of it...it takes time to learn it and it isnt a system that's controlled from the bench.

The one thing this system will prove is whether a group of non superstar talents and subpar role players can run it with success. the Wolves tried it with rambis and it was dysmal.

You are stuck on language.

It takes time for them to learn where they need to be. That's it. It's an offense. Nothing magical.

Melo was doing fine until he started chucking threes when they started losing. Shump was dribbling way too much several times. Jr Smith totally was freelancing out of frustration.

The offense is simple. Guys just need to stick with it. It will take time but simply saying players need IQ takes away from what's really going on. Guys that have low IQ and low talent can maximize their talent because they don't have to think. They simply have to go where they are supposed to. The reads aren't complicated. It's just basketball


Ok man, you win...the triangle is easy. Totally explains why no one runs it in the NBA in it's entirety.

Nobody runs it because of ego. Nobody wants to play the team game. Everyone wants to coddle their star players and fight to get more of them to win. Nobody wants to simplify things and play organized ball. The bulls, Lakers and spurs win the majority of the championships the last 20 years. All run organized offenses. It doesn't get rating but it does win.

You can't bring Minnesota up because of that retard David Kahn and his 7 headed point guard idea. He was a ****ing retard

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EnySpree
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10/25/2014  12:32 PM
So many bums succeed in the triangle. It's not cuz they all simply had a high IQ.... the role players bought in. They filled their spots, moved the ball, made their cuts and the stars took it from there. The Knicks can succeed but they need to buy in. Guys that aren't need to be traded immediately.
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nixluva
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10/25/2014  12:46 PM
Some of you guys are not really getting it. Enyspree and gunsnewing get it. It sound cliche but the system is the savior if they let it help them. Fish will go over every minute of game tape and really get into specifics in practice and this team will stick to the offense more often than not. We saw guys panic last night and break the offense. That's not going to happen much when we're getting consistent minutes from Jose and Prigs at the point. We had Larkin out there auditioning and that was the right thing to do. It was the perfect time to see what his level of understanding was. Fish was allowing guys to work it out in preseason but he won't be experimenting in the regular season. Fish isn't going to allow things to get out of hand by playing lineups that haven't worked. We'll see more minutes for the best lineups and that will stabilize things.

It seems like people think the Knicks have no talent and that isn't true either. What we have is talent that isn't yet playing up to it's full potential because they're resisting the system mentally. When a guy like JR relaxes and just uses the system he'll be more successful. He's fighting it right now which happens to guys like him that are used to dribbling too much. It actually happened to Jordan when he 1st tried the triangle. He didn't trust it and wanted to scrap it. Phil and Tex finally got thru to him and once he figured it out we saw what happened. We will need that same epiphany to happen for some of these players. It's gonna happen.

Already the improvements on D are noticeable. This scheme is much better. Fish will have to limit the impact of our bad defenders like STAT, but I think he realizes that and will do what he can. Overall the D is better and that's gonna help a lot. If any of you are honest you know this D is already better than it was last year.
gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  12:52 PM
Larkin's improvement is encouraging. Calderon going down really helped him get experience under his belt. Enough experience so he doesn't look overwhelmed like he did earlier in preseason. He looks more comfortable in the triangle and because of it he is shooting with more confidence
nixluva
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10/25/2014  12:57 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Larkin's improvement is encouraging. Calderon going down really helped him get experience under his belt. Enough experience so he doesn't look overwhelmed like he did earlier in preseason. He looks more comfortable in the triangle and because of it he is shooting with more confidence

Yeah he's getting better. He still has a long way to go in terms of being able to DIRECT his teammates when they aren't in position, but he is showing signs of improvement. That's why we saw Fish playing him over Prigs. Fish knew Prigs already has it. Then with Jose being out it really provided a great teaching opportunity. I like Larkin and think he'll help this team. Right now tho I would expect Fish to lean on Jose and Prigs to stabilize things.
Splat
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10/25/2014  1:05 PM
smackeddog wrote:I was looking into the 1999-2000 Lakers to see how quickly they got to grips with the triangle. Unlike us, it seemed very quick with them- they won 67 games that season. Also surprising was their roster- outside of prime time Shaq and pre-prime Kobe, that roster wasn't very good:

Brian Shaw
Derek Fisher
John Celestand
Kobe Bryant
Ron Harper
Tyronn Lue
Glen Rice
Sam Jacobson
A.C. Green
Devean George
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
John Salley
Shaquille O'Neal
Travis Knight

Wow! Go ahead and tell us how

A.C. Green was not a seriously impactful ball player

and how this club wouldn't benefit from Year 2000 vintage Fisher and Shaw.

Or tell us how even aging veterans and champions like Robert Horry or John Salley wouldn't upgrade this current Knicks squad.

Hell, Year 2000 Glenn Rice and Rick Fox, Devean George, Tyronn Lue and Ron Harper would all be upgrades to this current club.

Sorry friend, but that club would dust this club like a hammer vs. a fruit fly.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
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