Vmart wrote:I want to see if Shump deserves a new contract with the Knicks. I would purposely throw adversity towards Shump to see his reaction. Based off of that I would determine the money he gets. 5-7 million I think is to much for Shump at this moment in time.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:My plan all along was a pump and dump. Get him playing well and send him to anyone for an expiring contract and a first rounder, even if its like pick 30.

Thoughts?

If Shumpert rebuilds his trade value this year, he will still only be a short term rental at the trade deadline, and that lingering question of "Is This A Future Core Guy?" will simply pass onto the new team in any deal. The most the Knicks are likely to get is a 2nd round pick.

The key issue here IMHO is that Melo and Calderon are the only true roster locks for the next three seasons ( I just don't see the Knicks finding a way to dump Calderon's contract) Whomever the Knicks have playing the other wing position ( If Melo stays at SF) needs to be a plus defender. The Knick have zero hope to win if they have Melo ( lousy defender), Calderon( aging lousy defender) and then add another wing who can't defend.

Complicating this is there is no one else on the roster who is young and being groomed that can offer plus defense on the wing. Whether it's Shump or someone else, the Knicks need a SG who can be an elite defender.

I don't think the Knicks extend a QO to Shump, I think he leaves. ( Sometimes it's just better for a player to move on)

Oh, I think if he's playing as well as Fish is suggesting, you could get a pick around 25.
If he's playing like his career #s, you probably won't get more than a pick around 55 though.

didnt we have a deal on the table for him to OKC for at least one of their first rounders and Dolan killed it? I would agree with your post regardless though... if he's playing well there will be a team willing to give up a late #1 for a rental or perhaps more if they think he fits into their long term plans

Yeah, that was when he had more than a full season left on a rookie contract though. At the trade deadline, he'll have only 2 months left on his rookie deal.

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.

I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason

Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith

I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys

I'm holding you to that one Bonn

Seriously Gasol is older and will not come cheap. You are not going to want him after Shumpert's borderline allstar season

and yes he is capable. He is the teams #2 option this year. The role he should've had all along running with Melo

fishmike wrote:Say he played great and is injury free... 12ppg, 5rebs, 2steals, 2 assists and he playing impact defense that sounds like 4 years $30mm (about 7.5mm a year) a little less than what Ariza got I believe.

Thoughts?

I would hope in this system, in this backcourt, he gets more than 2 dimes a game. Maybe that's asking for too much.

I still think Shump's more valuable than Ariza at this point in their comparitive careers/Knick tenures. Shump projects more as an Evan Turner type rather than a George Lynch.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.

I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason

Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith

I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys

yea... but Im not sure now. He's huge. He's a plodder. If guys are worried about Melo's mileage and being honest you have to be 2x as concerned about Gasol. Hard to imaging that production too far into his 30s. Guys that size are a foot stress fracture waiting to happen

It's a fair point and a gamble. I don't think his contract size can go as big as the super max though. We definitely can't offer that many years. It would probably be something like 4 years, $85 mil.

gunsnewing wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:Say he played great and is injury free... 12ppg, 5rebs, 2steals, 2 assists and he playing impact defense that sounds like 4 years $30mm (about 7.5mm a year) a little less than what Ariza got I believe.

Thoughts?

I would hope in this system, in this backcourt, he gets more than 2 dimes a game. Maybe that's asking for too much.

I still think Shump's more valuable than Ariza at this point in their comparitive careers/Knick tenures. Shump projects more as an Evan Turner type rather than a George Lynch.

That would be a steal. I'm expecting better numbers than that. If we can lock him up for under $10mil per it is a steal

for example a 30+ guy like Gasol will cost at minimum $12-14

Sorry Guns, but you're delusional when it comes to appraising Shump's value. 10 million per is most certainly not "music to my ears". I understand you like guys that play defense but we're talking about a player that looked absolutely lost last year and has played a few decent preseason games. Lance Stephenson is worth $10mil and he is a top 5 SG in the league. Answer this honestly: is shump anywhere near stephenson's level? No he's not, but you're saying it's a steal if we can pay him as much as a far superior player gets.

holfresh wrote:The triangle is about wing players who can do multiple things...That's Shump...Its obvious that Phil gave him a pep talk over the summer...He has a new attitude...Melo slimmed down to play the wing..Wing players, outside shooters to create space and cutters..More than a new TV deal, the triangle has Shump here..

exactly

everything above those two attributes is gravy. he's a 4-5 million dollar player if he achieves these two things.