NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:Last night...

Amare: 4/10, 5 boards, 1 block, 1 turnover
Jason smith: 5/10, 5 boards, 0 blocks, 3 turnovers

Looks pretty even to me, but hey, haters are gonna hate.

Hoes gonna ride the dick too.

What's wrong with not like a players game? I think the guy doesn't fit. Stays don't tell the whole story. Just like +/- serves no purpose.

Amare looks majestic when he scores or when he goes all out on a block.... as far as the team concept he does nothing. Will we win any more games by playing him over any other guy? No. I think we would be better off letting him go for the Better of the team. Chemistry wise and culture wise. I could be wrong but don't label be a hater cuz i don't like a guy. You can be a dick rider. Anyway it takes away from the conversion

come on man disagreeing is fine but using profanity laced insults is not respectful. Anyway in regards to Amare he is what he is we cant move him because of his salary but he can still be effectiive. Jason Smith is what he is too a big guy off the bench who can shoot and provide some interior defense

I apologize but in the context of being called a hater, I take it as some one disregarding my opinion because of envy. To me that's worse than using a curse word. I don't hate or envy another person. We're talking basketball. I already explained that I don't like Amare and I believe he keeps proving why. My opinion can change just like it had with shump so far in pre season.

Anyway I do apologize but you see where it came from.

I'm not sure "dick riding" constitutes profanity. Some people are just overly sensitive. I don't think you need to apologize.

P.S., I think you've been on point with Amar'e. I like Amar'e the person plenty but Amar'e the player is detrimental to this team.

I think as time passes and Acy & Jason get the job done and elevate their play from previous seasons people will realize that Amare is just not worth playing. It's not like he's suddenly going to start playing shutdown defense after all these years.

He has not even show. He can be adequate. He has the worse defensive technique and just can't grasp NBA defense. We see him being the main cause of defensive breakdowns all the time

EnySpree wrote:Everyone in the team is playing well except these two. Jr Smith is too frustrated with the offense. He came out and said it will take until January for the team to get it. I think by the last pre season game the Knicks will have it down. Shump and thjr are thriving in the new style of play. Looks like jr is the one that needs to sit now.

Amare is not a team ball player. He needs the ball and he wants to score. He wants the offense to focus on him. He thinks highly of himself and wants individual success over team success. You can see it in his body language. Bargs played well enough in the first game to get my support. Jason smith to me won the starting 4 spot. Dalembert won the starting center spot. Quincy Acy deserves minutes too. Amare adds nothing to the equation.

this is the culture change. You want guys to buy in. Your stars have to be the first to buy in. Amare and JR are not buying in. I smell a trade.

Not buying in, did you learn how to walk in a wk, did you learn how to drive your first 2 or 3 times behind a wheel. Obviously is going to take those 2 a little longer to grasp the concept. Your so blinded by the hate...Go google how long it took MWP to figure out the the triangle. Some get it quicker than others.

When melo came in a disrupted MDA's offensive system ( a balling moving system that amare was a 5 time all star in)everyone said the same thing..Relax, amare and JR are so not out

knicks1248 wrote:

Splat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:We're trying to change the culture. We're running an offense. We're not paying hero ball. Alot of fans were sick of Melo chucking shots but now we want to get Amare up to speed so we can dump it down to him?

Which is it? Do you want team ball or you want to watch one guy taking all the shots?

I want to win. Except what the Knicks are doing now. Realize who is playing well and formulate a new found love for the Knicks damn it

That is the point. Melo was resigned by Phil because he was confident Melo could thrive in the Triangle.

Melo has always been a player who was best used as first option in a well schooled passing game, because he has a quick trigger and he is actually better utilized that way than by having him do ISO sets. But Melo could ISO and get his points too so feeble coaches like Woodson let that become Melo's default play. Melo will be a better player now.

Stat in Phoenix was the ultimate big man on a running team. He was fed the ball in motion most of the time and with his power he thrived in that scenario. After he lost his athleticism, his glaring lack of defense was highlighted further and he had to go back to the drawing board for his offensive moves. He retooled enough to be a player again, but he doesn't fit here now. He remains a liability on defense and I cannot say that like Melo he will be a better player as a result of the system.

That's the big difference between the two. Melo is still our future. Stat is certainly not. And if Stat can't understand the system, why should he expected to play well on the court the same time as Melo now if it was a problem before having a coherent system?

I do understand why some still want him to play, but he is just a lousy fit now.

But I do not understand how his potential point production is continually invoked while his liabilities get swept under the rug. He is well-documented as a plus/minus disaster. How can this be blithely ignored by so many?

His overall contribution within the whole scheme is what matters. His points are not the core story. It is his aggregate impact on the game as a whole which is not good. We have seen so many times how teams go on runs with him on the floor.

I'm not interested in insulting others who value Amare. I think he is simply a deep rotation backup player at best, but I'd be glad if he did not play at all.

We'll get our points while also keeping other teams' production down if we have better defenders than Stat in the game. The spread between our points and the opponents is what matters. We can find 15 points from other players just fine.

Sow your giving Stat 2 wks to learn the system? He's suppose to change his entire game in 2 wks. When you meet a chick who has bad habits do you cut her off because she hasn't changed in 2 wks time, some habits she's been doing for a life time?

Dude lets be realistic, I could understand if this was january/feb and we were 10 games under 500

STAT already knows the system...why do we keep saying he doesn't, he's definitely top 3 of those that didn't already play it in the summer league.

He's passing, he's setting screens, moving without the ball, canning his jumper and creating his own shot.

money baby, money!

I mean, NY papers are as biased as they come...hence the previous gag order...but watching the games, i'm telling you, it's a different Amare than the last 2 years, even from the last half of last year...he's engaged and playing well.

Just saying.

here is a good look at some of the bigs from the game last night.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/10/15/6981835/lets-watch-the-knicks-big-men-make-great-triangle-passes

I apologize as I said Knicks went 16-5. It was 14-5. Here are Amare's +/- for those 19 games

+17
+16
+7
+21
+14
+8
+8
+3
-30
+17
-27
-4
-1
0
-11
+14
+7
+14
+2

So dealing with the stretch I mentioned specifically in which you then totally discarded, Im pretty sure if we are having a true debate these new facts which you clearly were not aware of should change your opinion right?

I get you hate him or hate his game or however you want to spin it, but when he's on the floor he helps. If your going by the +/- which you keep saying everyone is ignoring he REALLY helps.

fishmike wrote:Splat... since you want to "debate" lets stick with facts. You keep harping on his +/- and dismissed the impact he had late in the year when Woodson took the minutes restriction off and played him more.

I apologize as I said Knicks went 16-5. It was 14-5. Here are Amare's +/- for those 19 games

+17
+16
+7
+21
+14
+8
+8
+3
-30
+17
-27
-4
-1
0
-11
+14
+7
+14
+2

So dealing with the stretch I mentioned specifically in which you then totally discarded, Im pretty sure if we are having a true debate these new facts which you clearly were not aware of should change your opinion right?

I get you hate him or hate his game or however you want to spin it, but when he's on the floor he helps. If your going by the +/- which you keep saying everyone is ignoring he REALLY helps.

I get it man, you think that last stretch indicates a revitalized Amare and he will continue marching along at that pace. His plus/minus last year was the worst of his career by a big margin and even his good stretch didn't change that.

What you should understand about my POV is I'm fine with him playing if he meshes with the team, but if he doesn't I don't care to see him on the floor. And my POV is that despite his sometimes helping on offense, we usually see the worst runs against us with him on the floor.

That's enough for you and I on this topic for now. Really. Don't stalk my posts look for every Amare rebuttal you can find. I'm not that attached to any opinion if the player proves I'm wrong. If Stat can click with the system, I'll support him. That's easy for me to do.

fishmike wrote:Splat... since you want to "debate" lets stick with facts. You keep harping on his +/- and dismissed the impact he had late in the year when Woodson took the minutes restriction off and played him more.

I apologize as I said Knicks went 16-5. It was 14-5. Here are Amare's +/- for those 19 games

+17
+16
+7
+21
+14
+8
+8
+3
-30
+17
-27
-4
-1
0
-11
+14
+7
+14
+2

So dealing with the stretch I mentioned specifically in which you then totally discarded, Im pretty sure if we are having a true debate these new facts which you clearly were not aware of should change your opinion right?

I get you hate him or hate his game or however you want to spin it, but when he's on the floor he helps. If your going by the +/- which you keep saying everyone is ignoring he REALLY helps.

Let me guess. He did that primarily against weak east teams when he was made more of a focal point of the offense?
That's not what we need this year.
We need team ball and we need to build towards the future. Amare is gone next year

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:Splat... since you want to "debate" lets stick with facts. You keep harping on his +/- and dismissed the impact he had late in the year when Woodson took the minutes restriction off and played him more.

I apologize as I said Knicks went 16-5. It was 14-5. Here are Amare's +/- for those 19 games

+17
+16
+7
+21
+14
+8
+8
+3
-30
+17
-27
-4
-1
0
-11
+14
+7
+14
+2

So dealing with the stretch I mentioned specifically in which you then totally discarded, Im pretty sure if we are having a true debate these new facts which you clearly were not aware of should change your opinion right?

I get you hate him or hate his game or however you want to spin it, but when he's on the floor he helps. If your going by the +/- which you keep saying everyone is ignoring he REALLY helps.

Let me guess. He did that primarily against weak east teams when he was made more of a focal point of the offense?
That's not what we need this year.
We need team ball and we need to build towards the future. Amare is gone next year

This is not a campain to get him resigned. I thought we were talking hoops right? So making a guy who shoots over 55% the focal point of the offense is not what we need? If he's here and he's healthy you ride him. If he's broken he sits. Its really not that hard.

Or we could just stick with pure emotion and say this guy sucks and that guy sucks.

As painful as it may be for some we NEED Amare to play like Amare, at least for the first couple months. Two good months of Amare for 25-28 minutes off the bench could be the difference between staring 10-15 or 15-10. He's a scorer. You run him out there to pound it in the post and you do it because his %s are sick there. He can also defend just fine m2m. We all know his help and rotations are horrific, but he can do *something* on defense, as opposed to Bargs who can only fall down and injure something.

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:Splat... since you want to "debate" lets stick with facts. You keep harping on his +/- and dismissed the impact he had late in the year when Woodson took the minutes restriction off and played him more.

I apologize as I said Knicks went 16-5. It was 14-5. Here are Amare's +/- for those 19 games

+17
+16
+7
+21
+14
+8
+8
+3
-30
+17
-27
-4
-1
0
-11
+14
+7
+14
+2

So dealing with the stretch I mentioned specifically in which you then totally discarded, Im pretty sure if we are having a true debate these new facts which you clearly were not aware of should change your opinion right?

I get you hate him or hate his game or however you want to spin it, but when he's on the floor he helps. If your going by the +/- which you keep saying everyone is ignoring he REALLY helps.

I get it man, you think that last stretch indicates a revitalized Amare and he will continue marching along at that pace. His plus/minus last year was the worst of his career by a big margin and even his good stretch didn't change that.

What you should understand about my POV is I'm fine with him playing if he meshes with the team, but if he doesn't I don't care to see him on the floor. And my POV is that despite his sometimes helping on offense, we usually see the worst runs against us with him on the floor.

That's enough for you and I on this topic for now. Really. Don't stalk my posts look for every Amare rebuttal you can find. I'm not that attached to any opinion if the player proves I'm wrong. If Stat can click with the system, I'll support him. That's easy for me to do.

I dont think anything. Im calling it like I see it. You said Amare is useless and total crap, etc. I dont care to look up the exact words. I said he wasnt. Then you got quite sensitive about that. Of course his +/- numbers were bad last year. The whole team's were. Thats normal when you lose (and get blown out) in as many games as they did last year. Amare's problem is one thing only... he cant stay on the floor.

Anyway you stance has clearly softened... funny how that works. As for me stalking you dont flatter yourself. If you spew hate you will be called a hater. Kinda how life works

Man you are a miserable dude. The only one being emotional is you. I said loud and clear I'd support Amare if he can play team ball, but I don't think he can, yet you continue with petty crap. You are the cry baby defending Stat. I could give two****s if he plays or not as long as he plays team ball, so I'm not invested in my opinion whereas you're just being a nasty creep overall. Pizz off and don't bother with me then.

fishmike wrote:This is cute. If it was the case you wouldnt respond. Is splat the sound your computer makes everytime you post this fodder? Yea.. Im a nasty creep. Everyone here who has met me knows this! Thanks for the free therapy

Yeah, I'll respond. You've already characterized in two distinct ways. You're the kind of person who calls those opposed to your viewpoints "haters" which means you're not worth the time to discuss things with as long as you keep up that nonsense.

And you also live to get the final word because basically you're not here as a fan as much as a bloodsport poster who lives to see whose skin you can get under. Yeah, you're creepy.

That means you can now respond to this and I'll give you the gift of the last word since I'm done with you until you show respect to opposing viewpoints without your petty BS.