dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:It no longer bothers me that the naysayers have already jumped ship. Mark Jackson once got in trouble saying somethin about Rats and ships. The naysayers couldn't wait for the 1st poor performance or underperforming stretch of games. The naysayers don't think coaching means a damn and think it's all about players. It's a combination of all aspects of the franchise. The quality of players but also the coaching and leadership. For this team there is a major shift in the approach on both ends of the floor. It seems fair to give it time to fully set in. This isn't a sprint...

the knicks have to win 45-46 games and have a strong showing in the playoffs. that is the perspective to keep in mind. if a knucklehead in the rotation says it'll be until january when the squad gets it then guess what-- that's 30 regular-season games.

if this knucklehead is speaking accurately about the offense and the knicks defense is substandard-- a given really-- what do you predict the record will be as of january 1st?

last season it was 10-20. care to hazard a guess about the record this season? last season it would have meant going 35-17 from january 1st forward, or finally clicking to go .667 the rest of the way.

Fisher said it could take up to 8 weeks.

"I do think collectively as a group, we can expect to take several weeks," he said. "Whether it's four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, I'm not sure. A lot of it is how guys come together as a team, and I think in a large way, that's the most important part."

8 weeks still puts us at january 1st. anyone want to hazard a guess about the record as of january 1st now that both the knucklehead and the rookie coach have weighed in?

17 games at home and only 13 games on the road by my count-- very kind scheduling but a lot of playoff-caliber teams which is not kind. with the ongoing leadership vacuum i can see the whole thing falling apart unless fisher can maintain belief as a corollary of culture change.

i can see them losing as many as 23 games if i am an outright pessimist but since i am not i can see a 11-19 or 12-18 record.

does this guesstimate constitute naysaying?

But Dk how could you predict last year we'd start off 3-13

You know the injuries and then Woody being undermined blah blah blah

Oh wait you want to use sound logic here

Looking at the schedule while taking in what the

Knucklehead and wise Understudy and don't forget

Elite level point guard said and I quote/////

There’s also worry Calderon will need time to master the triangle. He said he has been working overtime to learn the system.

“It looks easy but it’s not,’’ Calderon said. “It’s complicated. If it wasn’t, more people would be playing this way. But we’ll be all right. That’s what training camp is for.

“I know more today than yesterday, I know more now than early this morning. Every day we learn a lot. We’re trying to get used to it, adding movement, adding passes. Like anything, it’s repetition.’’

Then when the Superstar Honcho makes comments like

"We have what we have", or our Team "Is What it Is"

Well this doesn't make for a happy ending

First 2 mos at a minimum, I think it was you who said our offense

Has to be light yrs ahead of our defense in order

To avoid catastrophe out of the gates

2-3mos of "We'll Get Em Next Time" offense

Is not gonna cut it

We haven't even touched on other things

Such as health, rotations, and whatnot that could get in the way

BRIGGS wrote:

misterearl wrote:Pre Season Word Salad

F500ONE wrote:I don't think other teams
Want to start off losing their
First preseason game so they can reflect back yrs later
Brad Stevens probably told his team they have goals too
Starting with winning your first preseason game

F500ONE - the Knicks roster has been together for a week, installing a new system, and you are counting pre season wins as essential?

That is just plain crazy talk. Rotations need to be established and men need to get acquainted, (and learn to trust) in battle.

Please get a grip. It will be at least January before the new system becomes intuitive.

HMM I dont see basketball as rocket science. Travis Wear played exactly 0 NBA minutes but looked more fluid and in tune than some guys who have made tens of millions of $$. I dont see why it wouldnt take 10 adult people 2 weeks to learn how to play a system of basketball. If you cant grasp something simple after two weeks you wont grasp it 3 months later. In Phil Jackson's first year with the Lakers they won 67 games and a championship. Doesnt seem like they had to wait 3-4 months to get anything down. Saying it takes lengthy time is excuse for we dont have the players.

There is the notion that some of the Knicks veterans have to "Un-Learn" how to play before they can grasp the Triangle.

Basically saying that they not only have to learn the new offense but they have to shake their old bad habits and the shaking of the old/bad is harder than learning the new.
In theory a kid like Wear comes into camp with less BAD habits and his mind is less cluttered. You also have vets who've made huge paydays playing in one style and now are trying to learn something new --- just difficult to do over-night without playing less-freely.

knicks1248 wrote:when we looked loss last season and loss to boston by 30, i said we are in big trouble, and all i heard was, "ITS A MEANINGLESS preseason game..We were in preseason mode until the all star break.

But if were able to bounce back in our next game, i'll feel much better. It looks like brad went in and said these fckrs look lost, just keep pushing the ball and swarming them..cmon 28 turnovers

You know why we had 28 turnovers? Because we had 20 assists on like 28 feild goals or something like that. That's what we should want to see. San Antonio had 28 turnovers in their preseason game too. Guess what? They also play in a system offense, with lots of passing. It takes time to get in sync, even if you just won a championship.

The reason why we led the league in fewest turnovers for the last two years? BECAUSE WE PLAYED ISO BALL....THERE WERE NO PASSES TO TURN OVER.

Gsus wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:when we looked loss last season and loss to boston by 30, i said we are in big trouble, and all i heard was, "ITS A MEANINGLESS preseason game..We were in preseason mode until the all star break.

But if were able to bounce back in our next game, i'll feel much better. It looks like brad went in and said these fckrs look lost, just keep pushing the ball and swarming them..cmon 28 turnovers

You know why we had 28 turnovers? Because we had 20 assists on like 28 feild goals or something like that. That's what we should want to see. San Antonio had 28 turnovers in their preseason game too. Guess what? They also play in a system offense, with lots of passing. It takes time to get in sync, even if you just won a championship.

The reason why we led the league in fewest turnovers for the last two years? BECAUSE WE PLAYED ISO BALL....THERE WERE NO PASSES TO TURN OVER.

This team is nothing like the Spurs, the Spurs KNOW their system, but they also know they can turn up when the time calls for it. The Spurs would be fine if they lost all their preseason games.

The Knicks on the other hand need to establish something, they need to know their training camp meant something tangible on the court.

They need to not only play well but win because of the mentality of the core....losing brings out the worst in them.

1. It started in January when Phil told Dolan how it would be.
2. It started when Woodson was fired. Not out of anger or anguish for the job done, but for the new way it would be.
3. It started when Kerr was offered the gig. Phil wanted a young protog'e to run the triangle.
4. It continued when next up was Fisher.
5. It continued when the assistants were bought in to run it.
6. It continued when Tyson was traded. He was not the future.

Now its audition time. Bargs might be prime for this system. I doubt amare is. Melo made a commitment to it. JR I doubt is here long term unless he adhere's to the discipline both on and off the court.

The big picture is not this season. The haters can hate and set their own benchmark.

For those that wanted change, this is the most significant cultural revolution this team has ever attempted since Eddie Donovan traded Bells and Komives for Debusschure!!!!!

IT will be painful at times. The roster, like many things is a work in progress.

For those who are even critical of this team after one preseason game it has to be a comical attempt.
Basketball is a simple game but the Triangle is not instinctive to the contemparary player.

This team cannot epically fail this year. They only get a higher draft pick. No sure thing but you need to put yourself in a position to succeed. Losing this season is not a problem. It might be the process to a better future.

knickscity wrote:One draft pick will NOT change the fortunes of the team in enough time for Phil to deliver something meaningful. Folks can sing from the rooftops this season is only about establishing culture.

Well guess what? A solid culture also involves winning games. And that culture and winning games is your ticket to selling real talent to hop aboard.

No, its a multi stage process:

1. establish solid culture
2. start to win games

A good draft pick in the offseason, plus lots of cap space can really help boost the process along.

Nalod wrote:Im gonna guess when we say "a work in progress" some have different interpretation.

1. It started in January when Phil told Dolan how it would be.
2. It started when Woodson was fired. Not out of anger or anguish for the job done, but for the new way it would be.
3. It started when Kerr was offered the gig. Phil wanted a young protog'e to run the triangle.
4. It continued when next up was Fisher.
5. It continued when the assistants were bought in to run it.
6. It continued when Tyson was traded. He was not the future.

Now its audition time. Bargs might be prime for this system. I doubt amare is. Melo made a commitment to it. JR I doubt is here long term unless he adhere's to the discipline both on and off the court.

The big picture is not this season. The haters can hate and set their own benchmark.

For those that wanted change, this is the most significant cultural revolution this team has ever attempted since Eddie Donovan traded Bells and Komives for Debusschure!!!!!

IT will be painful at times. The roster, like many things is a work in progress.

For those who are even critical of this team after one preseason game it has to be a comical attempt.
Basketball is a simple game but the Triangle is not instinctive to the contemparary player.

This team cannot epically fail this year. They only get a higher draft pick. No sure thing but you need to put yourself in a position to succeed. Losing this season is not a problem. It might be the process to a better future.

Nalod wrote:Im gonna guess when we say "a work in progress" some have different interpretation.

1. It started in January when Phil told Dolan how it would be.
2. It started when Woodson was fired. Not out of anger or anguish for the job done, but for the new way it would be.
3. It started when Kerr was offered the gig. Phil wanted a young protog'e to run the triangle.
4. It continued when next up was Fisher.
5. It continued when the assistants were bought in to run it.
6. It continued when Tyson was traded. He was not the future.

Now its audition time. Bargs might be prime for this system. I doubt amare is. Melo made a commitment to it. JR I doubt is here long term unless he adhere's to the discipline both on and off the court.

The big picture is not this season. The haters can hate and set their own benchmark.

For those that wanted change, this is the most significant cultural revolution this team has ever attempted since Eddie Donovan traded Bells and Komives for Debusschure!!!!!

IT will be painful at times. The roster, like many things is a work in progress.

For those who are even critical of this team after one preseason game it has to be a comical attempt.
Basketball is a simple game but the Triangle is not instinctive to the contemparary player.

This team cannot epically fail this year. They only get a higher draft pick. No sure thing but you need to put yourself in a position to succeed. Losing this season is not a problem. It might be the process to a better future.

some humble questions for you oh great swami, numbered for ease of direct response:

1) who on the knicks has the impact of dave debusherre?

2) if dave debuscherre were available next season, wouldn't new york's posting of a losing season make the knicks an unattractive destination? so don't they have to actually look like an attractive place by making an impressive showing... which means .500 and a playoff appearance?

3) who wants to come play with carmelo anthony?

4) if we get a lottery pick how does that get the melo-era knicks any closer to a title?

5) what do you predict the record will be at the 30 game mark?

Phil did a lot of winning but he's had less successful teams too. There are enough players on this team to work with and start the process of building a winning culture. Not so much for the sake of aging vets but for the young players who are part of the future. Also for any future players they're looking to bring in.