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The most exciting thing is the youth
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knickscity
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10/6/2014  6:45 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:This looks more like the excitement surrounding Lampe, Mike Sweetney and Frank Williams future core.
We might get one or two nice role players out of our youth but we're well below average in youth development IMO.

Gotta keep it in perspective. We are talking about late picks and not top 10 picks. In that light we have done very good drafting. Also it's so important to add high level role players to your team. It's so hard to draft top talent even when you have high draft picks.

I really like the youth Phil has added. I think Early is gonna be really good. He has all the tools and just needs to continue to develop. Larkin was a nice addition as was Acy. I can see all these guys getting some action. That's a good sign.


That's reasonable. It's just not enough to excite me though.

Well the chance exists that a player like Early could end up being almost as good as Kawhi some day. I see a ton of talent in this kid. His athletic ability and skill level is pretty high. In this system Early should be great with his sweet stroke and athletic ability.

Agree .. Early seems to have a nice stroke and can throw it down.. Nice defender as well... Needs to learn how to dribble seems very hesitant to put the ball on the floor with a defender on him ... If he can worn on that watch out

...or he could be Marvin Williams 2.0....

Early is already not the same limited player as Marvin Williams. I really don't think you've taken a good look at this kid and his talent level. He's got flaws but he's also got plenty of ability already. Marvin is just OK and he was expected to be very good. If Early can be a solid defensive player that would be great. Marvin is not a very good defender. This is the area where Early has a chance to be much better. In the end Marvin has been an avg. NBA player which is underachieving given his draft position. If Early is avg. that won't be a disaster given when he was picked.

I like Early's energy more than Marvin's. I think Early could really be more productive if he can maintain a high energy level and if he does in fact improve his handle that would only make him even more dangerous.

Marvin Williams went ahead of guys like CP3, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, David Lee and probably some other star player I'm forgetting. He could do everything Early could do in college and more. But circumstance and the NBA game itself does not always allow for that promise to translate to this level. I like Early but he hasn't shown to be anything more than a "catch and shoot" player that is also a willing defender, which is the same thing Marvin Williams has been since he's been in the league. If he doesn't improve his handle, I'm not sure if he can be anything better than what Marvin has been.


I agree, marvin certainly had a good skillset in college, but certainly wasnt #2 worthy, which made it even more mindboggling since the hawks GM claimed he was drafting best player available. marvin was highly regarded mainly because he was a tarheel and he displayed pretty good two way skills, but somehow he never translated into the NBA and just wound up being an average player.

If Early even becomes what Marvin even currently is, that's a good pickup as I view Marvin as an average NBA player....a decent starter.
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nixluva
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10/6/2014  7:59 PM
NardDogNation wrote:Marvin Williams went ahead of guys like CP3, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, David Lee and probably some other star player I'm forgetting. He could do everything Early could do in college and more. But circumstance and the NBA game itself does not always allow for that promise to translate to this level. I like Early but he hasn't shown to be anything more than a "catch and shoot" player that is also a willing defender, which is the same thing Marvin Williams has been since he's been in the league. If he doesn't improve his handle, I'm not sure if he can be anything better than what Marvin has been.

Marvin was a great prospect but I think on the NBA level he is limited in what impact he can have due to a low motor. He has skills but just doesn't really impact a game cuz he isn't really dominant in any aspect. Early is quicker and more explosive which helps him at this level. Marvin is an inch taller but built more like a PF.

Early isn't a guy that tries to beat his man off the dribble but instead is a guy that moves well without the ball and uses the jab step and a quick release more often than dribbling too much. I prefer that to watching a guy dribble too much. Plus it's not like he has no handle. He's just more comfortable on catch and shoot. He'll pass the ball rather than force it which is another good thing. Plus he's often already moving when he drives so IMO he plays to his strengths which is smart.

It's not likely that Early will see starter minutes like Marvin has. Marvin has had some years with big minutes and I think Early would produce more if given that many minutes. I just think his activity level would allow him to produce more at this level. I always get a kind of lazy vibe from Marvin.
BigDaddyG
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10/6/2014  8:03 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:This looks more like the excitement surrounding Lampe, Mike Sweetney and Frank Williams future core.
We might get one or two nice role players out of our youth but we're well below average in youth development IMO.

+1. Aside from Hardaway, I think we've got a fairly bland collection of young talent.


True, but the potential is there for improvement. We've got our pick this year and it looks like it's going to be a solid draft. From what I've seen from Larkin and Early, I feel confident saying they'll be rotation players. I think there's enough here to have a measured degree of excitement.

I'll give you Early as a rotation player but I'm highly skeptical of Larkin's ability to stick in this league. He seemed to have difficulty playing against length in the Summer League with D-League caliber talent. I can't imagine him operating in a league where he has Derrick Rose and John Wall D-ing up on him with Joakim Noah and Marcin Gortat ready to pounce if he gets past them. Larkin, however, HAS the talent and skill to play in this league BUT lacks the physicality for it to matter. Guys his size have historically been otherworldly athletes and possessed an elite skillset/skill. Larkin has demonstrated none of the above and I doubt he'll ever be as lightening quick as an A.I./TJ Ford or built like a running-back like CP3 or Nate Robinson. Because of that, I doubt he ever develops into a mainstay in this league like his predecessors have been.


Larkin compares well with TJ Ford athletically: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?page=&year=All&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=100&pos=1&sort=
I see him more as JJ Bares type who can push the ball and hit from outside. I don't see him as fulltime starter, but I'm sure he'll carve a place in the league.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
H1AND1
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10/6/2014  9:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/6/2014  9:27 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:This looks more like the excitement surrounding Lampe, Mike Sweetney and Frank Williams future core.
We might get one or two nice role players out of our youth but we're well below average in youth development IMO.

Gotta keep it in perspective. We are talking about late picks and not top 10 picks. In that light we have done very good drafting. Also it's so important to add high level role players to your team. It's so hard to draft top talent even when you have high draft picks.

I really like the youth Phil has added. I think Early is gonna be really good. He has all the tools and just needs to continue to develop. Larkin was a nice addition as was Acy. I can see all these guys getting some action. That's a good sign.


That's reasonable. It's just not enough to excite me though.

Well the chance exists that a player like Early could end up being almost as good as Kawhi some day. I see a ton of talent in this kid. His athletic ability and skill level is pretty high. In this system Early should be great with his sweet stroke and athletic ability.

Agree .. Early seems to have a nice stroke and can throw it down.. Nice defender as well... Needs to learn how to dribble seems very hesitant to put the ball on the floor with a defender on him ... If he can worn on that watch out

...or he could be Marvin Williams 2.0....

Well except Marvin Williams was a high lottery pick and Early is a 2nd rounder (albeit most draft guys had him as a first rounder who slipped due to the depth of the draft). In my mind a second round pick is going to be a nice surprise if they pan out or an "ehh, whatever" if they don't. ATL got shafted getting Williams who never developed into a star or anything resembling one.

JMHO, I think Early has a good shot at being a solid backup wing player perhaps even this year moving up the depth chart. Later in his career he may even be starter quality or a superb 6th man but never a star per say. Like a James Posey-ish type player? Not too shabby. I'm rooting for the kid. Bronx kid, too.

It seems to me, and im not a draft expert by any means, that a lot of second rounders can be lumped into a couple groups: Guys who their entire lives coasted on pure physical ability but lack the motor that is needed to get by in that last step up to the NBA where it's no longer enough to out leap your opponents--these guys are usually busts or float from team to team for a couple years then exit the league (like out boy Jeremy Tyler). Then, there are the guys who lack some kind of physicality or physical trait like height, wingspan, or athletic ability but who have high motors and simply out work opponents==these guys can sometimes eek out decent careers and some stick around forever (Quincy Acy perhaps, but there are a lot of other examples). Then there are guys who have one important NBA level skill and will stick on a team, like a Novak. Finally, guys that simply slip and shock everyone are few and far between, the Gilbert Arenas, Nick Van Exel's, etc.

I think Early has a couple things going for him in that he has some definite NBA skills but also isn't undersized as a wing. I think he is definitely a first round pick in terms of all around skills, not a lottery pick, but a late 1st rounder for sure. Additionally, he seems to be a hard worker who has been raved about by coaches as being a kid who works his arse off. Not a surefire starter borderline allstar who slipped somehow but also not a guy who has some really glaring holes in his game and/or body that usually accompany 2nd rounders.
nixluva
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10/6/2014  9:08 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:This looks more like the excitement surrounding Lampe, Mike Sweetney and Frank Williams future core.
We might get one or two nice role players out of our youth but we're well below average in youth development IMO.

+1. Aside from Hardaway, I think we've got a fairly bland collection of young talent.


True, but the potential is there for improvement. We've got our pick this year and it looks like it's going to be a solid draft. From what I've seen from Larkin and Early, I feel confident saying they'll be rotation players. I think there's enough here to have a measured degree of excitement.

I'll give you Early as a rotation player but I'm highly skeptical of Larkin's ability to stick in this league. He seemed to have difficulty playing against length in the Summer League with D-League caliber talent. I can't imagine him operating in a league where he has Derrick Rose and John Wall D-ing up on him with Joakim Noah and Marcin Gortat ready to pounce if he gets past them. Larkin, however, HAS the talent and skill to play in this league BUT lacks the physicality for it to matter. Guys his size have historically been otherworldly athletes and possessed an elite skillset/skill. Larkin has demonstrated none of the above and I doubt he'll ever be as lightening quick as an A.I./TJ Ford or built like a running-back like CP3 or Nate Robinson. Because of that, I doubt he ever develops into a mainstay in this league like his predecessors have been.


Larkin compares well with TJ Ford athletically: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?page=&year=All&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=100&pos=1&sort=
I see him more as JJ Bares type who can push the ball and hit from outside. I don't see him as fulltime starter, but I'm sure he'll carve a place in the league.

Yeah Shane is even quicker and more athletic than TJ Ford. Shane is more like a Nate but he doesn't really play like him or Darren Collison who is just as agile and quick. Funny thing is that when Felton came into the league he had elite quickness and agility at the same level as Shane, Speedy Claxton, DRose etc. I doubt that's the case anymore.

Shane uses his athletic ability for defense and IMO he's a better defender than Nate. He's got those short arms but makes up for it with his quickness and anticipation allowing him to get steals. Shane just has an energy level that I think will really make him a good backup PG. You need a change of pace PG like that sometimes. Shane's BB IQ is higher than a kid like Nate which might make him more useful in an expanded role.

Let's also remember that in this offense it's going to give Shane an advantage as players will have to chase him which won't be easy to do. So great guards like Rose and Wall would have to work too it won't be a one way street. That's the beauty of the Triangle in that you get so much off ball movement. Opposing players will have to expend a lot of energy on D as well. It's not like Larkin will be constantly trying to break his man down, cuz that's not how the Triangle works.
fitzfarm
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10/6/2014  9:19 PM
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Marvin Williams went ahead of guys like CP3, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, David Lee and probably some other star player I'm forgetting. He could do everything Early could do in college and more. But circumstance and the NBA game itself does not always allow for that promise to translate to this level. I like Early but he hasn't shown to be anything more than a "catch and shoot" player that is also a willing defender, which is the same thing Marvin Williams has been since he's been in the league. If he doesn't improve his handle, I'm not sure if he can be anything better than what Marvin has been.

Marvin was a great prospect but I think on the NBA level he is limited in what impact he can have due to a low motor. He has skills but just doesn't really impact a game cuz he isn't really dominant in any aspect. Early is quicker and more explosive which helps him at this level. Marvin is an inch taller but built more like a PF.

Early isn't a guy that tries to beat his man off the dribble but instead is a guy that moves well without the ball and uses the jab step and a quick release more often than dribbling too much. I prefer that to watching a guy dribble too much. Plus it's not like he has no handle. He's just more comfortable on catch and shoot. He'll pass the ball rather than force it which is another good thing. Plus he's often already moving when he drives so IMO he plays to his strengths which is smart.

It's not likely that Early will see starter minutes like Marvin has. Marvin has had some years with big minutes and I think Early would produce more if given that many minutes. I just think his activity level would allow him to produce more at this level. I always get a kind of lazy vibe from Marvin.

Early is quick that's why he would be even more dangerous if he could put the ball on the floor to create for himself jab steps only work if you can dribble by your man.. A quick scouting report would kill his jab step when opposing players would just play up on him ... He's a late first early second round talent till he learns to put it on the floor... That's not a dis I really like his talent and think he can contribute this year. Hustles and has a dead eye ... Above average defender... Nice pick by Phil
fitzfarm
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10/6/2014  9:34 PM
I could see him molding into a Shawn Marion type player..
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10/6/2014  9:47 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Marvin Williams went ahead of guys like CP3, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, David Lee and probably some other star player I'm forgetting. He could do everything Early could do in college and more. But circumstance and the NBA game itself does not always allow for that promise to translate to this level. I like Early but he hasn't shown to be anything more than a "catch and shoot" player that is also a willing defender, which is the same thing Marvin Williams has been since he's been in the league. If he doesn't improve his handle, I'm not sure if he can be anything better than what Marvin has been.

Marvin was a great prospect but I think on the NBA level he is limited in what impact he can have due to a low motor. He has skills but just doesn't really impact a game cuz he isn't really dominant in any aspect. Early is quicker and more explosive which helps him at this level. Marvin is an inch taller but built more like a PF.

Early isn't a guy that tries to beat his man off the dribble but instead is a guy that moves well without the ball and uses the jab step and a quick release more often than dribbling too much. I prefer that to watching a guy dribble too much. Plus it's not like he has no handle. He's just more comfortable on catch and shoot. He'll pass the ball rather than force it which is another good thing. Plus he's often already moving when he drives so IMO he plays to his strengths which is smart.

It's not likely that Early will see starter minutes like Marvin has. Marvin has had some years with big minutes and I think Early would produce more if given that many minutes. I just think his activity level would allow him to produce more at this level. I always get a kind of lazy vibe from Marvin.

Early is quick that's why he would be even more dangerous if he could put the ball on the floor to create for himself jab steps only work if you can dribble by your man.. A quick scouting report would kill his jab step when opposing players would just play up on him ... He's a late first early second round talent till he learns to put it on the floor... That's not a dis I really like his talent and think he can contribute this year. Hustles and has a dead eye ... Above average defender... Nice pick by Phil


I think it's being overstated that he can't put the ball on the floor and get past his defender. He may not have a killer crossover but that doesn't mean he can't get by his man with his quickness and a couple of basic dribbles. I think Early keeps it simple which is actually smart and better than him forcing it and trying to do too much. Early actually has a quick 1st step but it's about him working on his game and expanding it. I think he will. Also his jab step is effective because of his great athletic ability. He gets off the floor pretty good and don't forget he has a 40" vertical. He knows how to create just enough space to get his shot off. I think it would be a mistake for a defender to play up on his with his quickness.
NardDogNation
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10/6/2014  9:53 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:This looks more like the excitement surrounding Lampe, Mike Sweetney and Frank Williams future core.
We might get one or two nice role players out of our youth but we're well below average in youth development IMO.

+1. Aside from Hardaway, I think we've got a fairly bland collection of young talent.


True, but the potential is there for improvement. We've got our pick this year and it looks like it's going to be a solid draft. From what I've seen from Larkin and Early, I feel confident saying they'll be rotation players. I think there's enough here to have a measured degree of excitement.

I'll give you Early as a rotation player but I'm highly skeptical of Larkin's ability to stick in this league. He seemed to have difficulty playing against length in the Summer League with D-League caliber talent. I can't imagine him operating in a league where he has Derrick Rose and John Wall D-ing up on him with Joakim Noah and Marcin Gortat ready to pounce if he gets past them. Larkin, however, HAS the talent and skill to play in this league BUT lacks the physicality for it to matter. Guys his size have historically been otherworldly athletes and possessed an elite skillset/skill. Larkin has demonstrated none of the above and I doubt he'll ever be as lightening quick as an A.I./TJ Ford or built like a running-back like CP3 or Nate Robinson. Because of that, I doubt he ever develops into a mainstay in this league like his predecessors have been.


Larkin compares well with TJ Ford athletically: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?page=&year=All&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=100&pos=1&sort=
I see him more as JJ Bares type who can push the ball and hit from outside. I don't see him as fulltime starter, but I'm sure he'll carve a place in the league.

Most of the important categories pertaining to their athletic ability were listed as N/A. One of the few that wasn't, involved their relative wingspans, which TJ Ford bested Larkin in by 4.5 more inches. It might not sound like much but that makes a tremendous amount of difference on defense. And on top of that, I'm pretty sure that TJ Ford was faster and definitely the better leaper, which allowed him to finish over guys in the paint. Shane Larkin could never make any of these plays...
nixluva
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10/6/2014  10:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/6/2014  11:52 PM
We already know that Shane is short with short arms. He is however VERY athletic. He is in fact an elite athlete.

In this vid he dunks at 1:00. It's clear he doesn't even use a lot of effort either.

I just wanted to add that it's not important for our PG to be able to dunk the ball in traffic. Who cares really. Thing is Shane is a heck of a prospect and I'm very happy Phil got him. I actually was hoping we could get him in the draft. I normally prefer big PG's but at least Shane is quick and skilled, with good court vision. He's aggressive on both ends which I like. He should be a good reserve off the bench.
mreinman
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10/7/2014  4:45 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:This looks more like the excitement surrounding Lampe, Mike Sweetney and Frank Williams future core.
We might get one or two nice role players out of our youth but we're well below average in youth development IMO.

+1. Aside from Hardaway, I think we've got a fairly bland collection of young talent.


True, but the potential is there for improvement. We've got our pick this year and it looks like it's going to be a solid draft. From what I've seen from Larkin and Early, I feel confident saying they'll be rotation players. I think there's enough here to have a measured degree of excitement.

I'll give you Early as a rotation player but I'm highly skeptical of Larkin's ability to stick in this league. He seemed to have difficulty playing against length in the Summer League with D-League caliber talent. I can't imagine him operating in a league where he has Derrick Rose and John Wall D-ing up on him with Joakim Noah and Marcin Gortat ready to pounce if he gets past them. Larkin, however, HAS the talent and skill to play in this league BUT lacks the physicality for it to matter. Guys his size have historically been otherworldly athletes and possessed an elite skillset/skill. Larkin has demonstrated none of the above and I doubt he'll ever be as lightening quick as an A.I./TJ Ford or built like a running-back like CP3 or Nate Robinson. Because of that, I doubt he ever develops into a mainstay in this league like his predecessors have been.


Larkin compares well with TJ Ford athletically: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?page=&year=All&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=100&pos=1&sort=
I see him more as JJ Bares type who can push the ball and hit from outside. I don't see him as fulltime starter, but I'm sure he'll carve a place in the league.

I hope not. JJ Barea SUCKS!!

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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10/7/2014  6:49 PM
In the end it's a major deal that Phil was able to add youth when we didn't really have a lot of options when he got here. I like this group of young prospects. They each bring something different to the table and should be able to help. That's a very good thing.
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10/7/2014  9:52 PM
nixluva wrote:We already know that Shane is short with short arms. He is however VERY athletic. He is in fact an elite athlete.

In this vid he dunks at 1:00. It's clear he doesn't even use a lot of effort either.

I just wanted to add that it's not important for our PG to be able to dunk the ball in traffic. Who cares really. Thing is Shane is a heck of a prospect and I'm very happy Phil got him. I actually was hoping we could get him in the draft. I normally prefer big PG's but at least Shane is quick and skilled, with good court vision. He's aggressive on both ends which I like. He should be a good reserve off the bench.

TJ Ford was catching putbacks over guys like Chris Kaman. There is no way Larkin could do those same things, especially as frequently as Ford use to. Yeah, Larkin can dunk but I can dunk too. You could probably dunk. There's a difference between what we can do and flushing it over Chris Kaman ESPECIALLY if you're doing it at 5"9' or 5"10'.
nixluva
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10/7/2014  11:51 PM
NardDogNation Just for reference to make it clear what we're talking about here, i've listed the Measurements and performance of a bunch of top athletic PG's. I put TJ Ford right under Shane to make it easier to compare the two physically. Just so you can see that when they jump Shane isn't that different from TJ in terms of how high they get their hands above the rim. This despite Shane having short arms and being shorter period!!! Shane is also pretty strong according to the Bench stats. I think people are just discounting Shane cuz he doesn't look like a tough and physical person. He's got that baby face and so you just assume that he's not as athletic or strong. 

                                                                        No Step                 Max Vert
                           Height     Weight    Wingspan    Reach       Vert Reach  Max Vert    Reach         Bench  Agility   Sprint
Shane Larkin - 2013	   5' 11.5"   171	5' 10.75"   7' 5.5"	10' 4"	    44.0	11' 1.5"      12     10.64	3.08	
T.J. Ford - 2003	   6' 0.25"   162	5' 11.5"    7' 9.5"	10' 6"	    39.5	11' 1"	      N/A    11.45	3.20
Nate Robinson - 2004	   5' 9"      181	6' 1"	    7' 7.5"	10' 7"	    43.5	11' 3"	      13     10.75	2.96
Speedy Claxton - 2000	   NA	      166	6' 0"	    7' 10.5"	10' 10.5"   42.5	11' 5"	      6	     10.48	3.06
Iman Shumpert - 2011	   6' 5.5"    222	6' 9.5"	    8' 3.5"	11' 4"	    42.0	11' 9.5"      18     11.10	3.18
Jordan Farmar - 2006	   6' 2"      171	6' 3"	    7' 10.5"	10' 8"	    42.0	11' 4.5"      11     11.07	3.17
O.J. Mayo - 2008	   6' 4.25"   200	6' 6"	    8' 3.5"	10' 10"	    41.0	11' 8.5"      7	     11.04	3.14
M Carter-Williams - 2013   6' 5.75"   184	6' 7.25"    8' 5"	11' 0.5"    41.0	11' 10"	      8	     10.68	3.22
Mike Conley Jr - 2007	   6' 0.75"   175	6' 5.75"    7' 10.5"	10' 10"	    40.5	11' 3"	      13     11.63	3.09
Brandon Roy - 2006	   6' 6.25"   207	6' 8"	    8' 5"	11' 3"	    40.5	11' 9.5"      6	     11.13	3.27
Derrick Rose - 2008	   6' 2.5"    196	6' 8"	    8' 2.5"	11' 1"	    40.0	11' 6.5"      10     11.69	3.05
Isaiah Thomas - 2011	   5' 10.25"  186	6' 1.75"    7' 7.5"	10' 3"	    40.0	10' 11.5"     13     10.49	3.14
Jonny Flynn - 2009	   6' 0.75"   196	6' 4"	    7' 11.5"	10' 8.5"    40.0	11' 3.5"      10     10.86	3.23
Aaron Brooks - 2007	   5' 11.75"  161	6' 4"	    7' 10"	10' 6.5"    39.5	11' 1.5"      6	     10.57	3.20
Damian Lillard - 2012	   6' 2.75"   189	6' 7.75"    7' 11.5"	10' 10"	    39.5	11' 3"	      13     11.15	3.34
Kemba Walker - 2011	   6' 1"      184	6' 3.5"	    7' 7.5"     10' 3.5"    39.5	10' 11"	      7	     10.87	3.16
Rodrigue Beaubois - 2009   6' 2.25"   182	6' 9.75"    8' 4"       10' 9.5"    39.0	11' 7"	      3	     10.49	3.15
John Wall - 2010	   6' 4"      196	6' 9.25"    8' 5.5      10' 11.5"   39.0	11' 8.5"      NA     10.84	3.14

Now I know this doesn't fit with your narrative about TJ Ford and Shane Larkin but Facts are Facts.
NardDogNation
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10/8/2014  9:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/8/2014  9:47 PM
nixluva wrote:NardDogNation Just for reference to make it clear what we're talking about here, i've listed the Measurements and performance of a bunch of top athletic PG's. I put TJ Ford right under Shane to make it easier to compare the two physically. Just so you can see that when they jump Shane isn't that different from TJ in terms of how high they get their hands above the rim. This despite Shane having short arms and being shorter period!!! Shane is also pretty strong according to the Bench stats. I think people are just discounting Shane cuz he doesn't look like a tough and physical person. He's got that baby face and so you just assume that he's not as athletic or strong. 

                                                                        No Step                 Max Vert
                           Height     Weight    Wingspan    Reach       Vert Reach  Max Vert    Reach         Bench  Agility   Sprint
Shane Larkin - 2013	   5' 11.5"   171	5' 10.75"   7' 5.5"	10' 4"	    44.0	11' 1.5"      12     10.64	3.08	
T.J. Ford - 2003	   6' 0.25"   162	5' 11.5"    7' 9.5"	10' 6"	    39.5	11' 1"	      N/A    11.45	3.20
Nate Robinson - 2004	   5' 9"      181	6' 1"	    7' 7.5"	10' 7"	    43.5	11' 3"	      13     10.75	2.96
Speedy Claxton - 2000	   NA	      166	6' 0"	    7' 10.5"	10' 10.5"   42.5	11' 5"	      6	     10.48	3.06
Iman Shumpert - 2011	   6' 5.5"    222	6' 9.5"	    8' 3.5"	11' 4"	    42.0	11' 9.5"      18     11.10	3.18
Jordan Farmar - 2006	   6' 2"      171	6' 3"	    7' 10.5"	10' 8"	    42.0	11' 4.5"      11     11.07	3.17
O.J. Mayo - 2008	   6' 4.25"   200	6' 6"	    8' 3.5"	10' 10"	    41.0	11' 8.5"      7	     11.04	3.14
M Carter-Williams - 2013   6' 5.75"   184	6' 7.25"    8' 5"	11' 0.5"    41.0	11' 10"	      8	     10.68	3.22
Mike Conley Jr - 2007	   6' 0.75"   175	6' 5.75"    7' 10.5"	10' 10"	    40.5	11' 3"	      13     11.63	3.09
Brandon Roy - 2006	   6' 6.25"   207	6' 8"	    8' 5"	11' 3"	    40.5	11' 9.5"      6	     11.13	3.27
Derrick Rose - 2008	   6' 2.5"    196	6' 8"	    8' 2.5"	11' 1"	    40.0	11' 6.5"      10     11.69	3.05
Isaiah Thomas - 2011	   5' 10.25"  186	6' 1.75"    7' 7.5"	10' 3"	    40.0	10' 11.5"     13     10.49	3.14
Jonny Flynn - 2009	   6' 0.75"   196	6' 4"	    7' 11.5"	10' 8.5"    40.0	11' 3.5"      10     10.86	3.23
Aaron Brooks - 2007	   5' 11.75"  161	6' 4"	    7' 10"	10' 6.5"    39.5	11' 1.5"      6	     10.57	3.20
Damian Lillard - 2012	   6' 2.75"   189	6' 7.75"    7' 11.5"	10' 10"	    39.5	11' 3"	      13     11.15	3.34
Kemba Walker - 2011	   6' 1"      184	6' 3.5"	    7' 7.5"     10' 3.5"    39.5	10' 11"	      7	     10.87	3.16
Rodrigue Beaubois - 2009   6' 2.25"   182	6' 9.75"    8' 4"       10' 9.5"    39.0	11' 7"	      3	     10.49	3.15
John Wall - 2010	   6' 4"      196	6' 9.25"    8' 5.5      10' 11.5"   39.0	11' 8.5"      NA     10.84	3.14

Now I know this doesn't fit with your narrative about TJ Ford and Shane Larkin but Facts are Facts.

Facts are facts but time will tell how Larkin's career develops. Based on what I've been seeing from him though, I'm still very skeptical. I just don't see his game translating well to the NBA stage because of how small he is. The game has gotten quicker and stronger, not to mention that there has been a spike in talent at the PG spot since TJ Ford's day. I do hope that Larkin makes something of himself though because we need all the talent that we can get.
tj23
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10/9/2014  12:09 AM
Almost every team got yoots. Ours aren't particularly special. I see a lot of role players, specialists, and guys who might not be in the league for much longer. We need some guys who can put the ball on the floor and score. That's been an issue for us. We can't just keep putting all teh pressure on Melo and a bunch of 3 pt shooters.
nixluva
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10/9/2014  2:21 AM
tj23 wrote:Almost every team got yoots. Ours aren't particularly special. I see a lot of role players, specialists, and guys who might not be in the league for much longer. We need some guys who can put the ball on the floor and score. That's been an issue for us. We can't just keep putting all teh pressure on Melo and a bunch of 3 pt shooters.

We haven't even gotten a chance to see our kids in regular season action yet so how do we know what we have yet? I do know that THJ was one of the better rookies last year so it's not like we just strike out. Guys with breakdown ability aren't just floating around. We haven't really had much opportunity to get one of the better players. Seems to me we've done about as we as could be expected with what we had.
fitzfarm
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10/9/2014  9:18 AM
Thjr is a 6 way scorer. He gets to the free throw line, hits the 3, creates his own shot, drives to the hole, hits the mid range,arguably the best transition scorer on the team. This guy is destined for greatness. It's time to trade jr or put jr in his role off the bench... Thjr is a starter on this team
BRIGGS
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10/9/2014  10:28 AM
THJ was a great pick--hes going to be a great player--hes close to being really good right now. If we played a system like the Suns THJ would have a chance to avg 25 a game and I believe that.
RIP Crushalot😞
fitzfarm
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10/9/2014  10:52 AM
BRIGGS wrote:THJ was a great pick--hes going to be a great player--hes close to being really good right now. If we played a system like the Suns THJ would have a chance to avg 25 a game and I believe that.

Agreed.. I believe he can put up big numbers in our system as well.. Between amare,melo,thjr,and even brags .. All of those guys get to the ft line... So a line up of brags,amare,melo,thjr,Jose ... Can change the momentum of the game just by stoping play and going to the line... I worry about the defense with that line up... But that's prob our best offensive line up... I'd like to see that line up start together... Thjr is a rising star and a great third option to melo and amare .. Thjr would get a lot of open looks . Something jr smith seems not to make
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