knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Teams with Melo have to play well enough to make helpful other players want to come

I think that goes for pretty much everyone.

Not everyone. For instance...the Bulls have little issue atracting quality players even with the health concerns of their best player.

Love doesnt have a desire to go to the Cavs before lebron went back...neither does Shawn Marion.

The only players that seem to be attracted to play with melo so far are former Nuggets whom he's already struggled with.

There hasn't been a year since he has been in NY that the Knicks had more to offer then the mini mid level. There maybe some mini mid level guys that chose other situations but I don't think that is a long list.

Cap space isnt the only way to attract players. if they want to be here they'll make a a way. Even melo wasnt acquired via cap space.

That usually involves trades, salaries and picks no? The Knicks don't have many guys on good or moveable deals and the Walsh and Thomas administrations traded away a ton of picks.

Of course, but we've seen plenty of deals get done with minimal assets. the Knicks still wont have many assets even next year...only cap space.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't understand the point tho. We know this wasn't going to be the season we added a big time FA so the only thing to do was lay a foundation of a new culture and system. I also don't understand the idea of poo pooing winning the division. You have to take things in stages. Playing well enough to win the Atlantic would be a great step one! How is that an insignificant thing if analysts are predicting another sub 40 win season???

Because winning the division doesnt mean anything, it's a playoff loophole, nothing else. Honestly if you're basing the season against what analysts think then you're already looking in the wrong direction.

And who says a quality fa couldnt be added? not "big time", becuase there arent any available even next year. if there are players who'd want to play with Melo, they would easily let themselves be known. he couldnt even attract his best friend when we did have space to accomomdate.

Wow ... some posters are really out there throwing crap at a wall.

TripleThreat wrote:

mreinman wrote:The knicks keep shytting away their money with dumb trades. Melo can't get teammates because we don't ever have cap space to get them.

IMHO, that's not the critical issue this season.

IIRC, the Knicks own their 2015 1st round pick ( only saved from Dolan by the Stepien Rule) but have already traded their 2016 1st and 2nd rounder in the Bargs/Melo/Camby trades.

The worst thing this years Knicks could do is win like 35-38 games, and miss the playoffs but still win too much to get a chance at the few top critical players in next years draft. Even getting the 8th seed would be bittersweet ( nice to make the playoffs but with your 2016 picks gone, that's a long road ahead as a treadmill team)

IMHO, the best play for the future would have been to

- Trade Chandler but not take on Calderon and keep Felton, thus maximizing the leverage to get as much draft assets from the Mavs as possible.
- Trade Melo this past offseason to the Bulls or Rockets for as much assets as possible. ( You wouldn't get all of them, but a Taj Gibson or a Mirotic and picks and a throw in like Tony Snell would be a nice start. ) Yes he could have signed with them outright, but moving his Bird Rights would allow another team to pay him more money ( and he seems to love the money) and play for a contender.
- Tank the hell out of this year to try to get a top pick.
- Use their spare cap space as a rental zone for other teams to dump their lousy short term contracts. The Knicks could take in picks that way and reach the mandated salary floor without penalty.

IMHO the real problem with the Knicks is how much draft assets they've burned through and traded off over the years.

The Knicks desperately need to restock the larder with draft ammmo. It's cost controlled labor that offers young upside.

Having Melo makes the Knicks good enough to float near the 7th seed to 8th seed to barely missing the playoffs as a treadmill team but capped out enough and not having enough draft assets to actually build a competent roster around him for the length of his current Knicks deal.

Good post, though all this tanking stuff does not really fly in NY ("fly in N Y" - like how that sounds). I don't think that Chicago was offering that much for Melo. I don't think that anyone was offering too much.

CrushAlot wrote:Philly.com re-visited the Amare rumor on Friday.

From Steve Kyler:

“What’s far more likely is that the long-rumored Amar’e Stoudemire to Philadelphia deal gets done at the deadline. The Sixers take on Stoudemire’s $23 million salary cap number, which pushes them way over the minimum [salary floor]. They would only owe him roughly 30 percent of his remaining contract, so they’d end up paying him $7 million in cash and likely extract a draft pick or a rookie scale player for their troubles.”

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/Amare-Stoudemire-to-Sixers-trade-is-still-possible-.html#raxlmLL1SiEqVmgo.99

I honestly dont see picks coming back in such a deal.....both teams save millions with the deal.

Philly with the floor payout, Knicks with the repeater tax.

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't understand the point tho. We know this wasn't going to be the season we added a big time FA so the only thing to do was lay a foundation of a new culture and system. I also don't understand the idea of poo pooing winning the division. You have to take things in stages. Playing well enough to win the Atlantic would be a great step one! How is that an insignificant thing if analysts are predicting another sub 40 win season???

Because winning the division doesnt mean anything, it's a playoff loophole, nothing else. Honestly if you're basing the season against what analysts think then you're already looking in the wrong direction.

And who says a quality fa couldnt be added? not "big time", becuase there arent any available even next year. if there are players who'd want to play with Melo, they would easily let themselves be known. he couldnt even attract his best friend when we did have space to accomomdate.

Wow ... some posters are really out there throwing crap at a wall.

What are you referring to?

I would like to know who the knicks could/should have attracted but did not because of Anthony. Do you think that Amare would have come here if Melo was here first and we offered him that retarded contract? Tyson? Who could we have gotten?

I know who we should have targeted instead of some of our stupid moves.

And ... there are big FA's available next year though I hope we stay away from them (LA and Gasol).

TripleThreat wrote:

mreinman wrote:The knicks keep shytting away their money with dumb trades. Melo can't get teammates because we don't ever have cap space to get them.

IMHO, that's not the critical issue this season.

IIRC, the Knicks own their 2015 1st round pick ( only saved from Dolan by the Stepien Rule) but have already traded their 2016 1st and 2nd rounder in the Bargs/Melo/Camby trades.

The worst thing this years Knicks could do is win like 35-38 games, and miss the playoffs but still win too much to get a chance at the few top critical players in next years draft. Even getting the 8th seed would be bittersweet ( nice to make the playoffs but with your 2016 picks gone, that's a long road ahead as a treadmill team)

IMHO, the best play for the future would have been to

- Trade Chandler but not take on Calderon and keep Felton, thus maximizing the leverage to get as much draft assets from the Mavs as possible.
- Trade Melo this past offseason to the Bulls or Rockets for as much assets as possible. ( You wouldn't get all of them, but a Taj Gibson or a Mirotic and picks and a throw in like Tony Snell would be a nice start. ) Yes he could have signed with them outright, but moving his Bird Rights would allow another team to pay him more money ( and he seems to love the money) and play for a contender.
- Tank the hell out of this year to try to get a top pick.
- Use their spare cap space as a rental zone for other teams to dump their lousy short term contracts. The Knicks could take in picks that way and reach the mandated salary floor without penalty.

IMHO the real problem with the Knicks is how much draft assets they've burned through and traded off over the years.

The Knicks desperately need to restock the larder with draft ammmo. It's cost controlled labor that offers young upside.

Having Melo makes the Knicks good enough to float near the 7th seed to 8th seed to barely missing the playoffs as a treadmill team but capped out enough and not having enough draft assets to actually build a competent roster around him for the length of his current Knicks deal.

I couldn't agree more. I love Melo, he's my favorite player, but he needed to be moved this offseason for the reasons you suggest. Mirotic and the Bulls' 16th (Jusuf Nurkic) and 19th (Gary Harris) would've been a hell of a start. At this point, all we have to look forward to is being the Atlanta Hawks of yesteryear and that is only if a 30 year old Melo remains healthy in spite of all the mileage/stress on his body.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:The knicks keep shytting away their money with dumb trades. Melo can't get teammates because we don't ever have cap space to get them.

Tyson signed here though that was really dumb on our part.

Yep.

Because Melo's contract eats that chit up

Well wait he did get Tyson to come here

Well wait Tyson said Amar'e started it all

This is so confusing sometimes

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Teams with Melo have to play well enough to make helpful other players want to come

I think that goes for pretty much everyone.

Not everyone. For instance...the Bulls have little issue atracting quality players even with the health concerns of their best player.

Love doesnt have a desire to go to the Cavs before lebron went back...neither does Shawn Marion.

The only players that seem to be attracted to play with melo so far are former Nuggets whom he's already struggled with.

There never was anyone in his Black Book

Because no one likes to play with Black Holes

Hopefully Phil proves to change the Melo Hex

Yup, even his bff Chris Paul denied the ride....even went as far as even denying interest.

...CP3 was traded to the Clippers, he didn't sign with them. Had he been a free agent and all things were even, I think he definitely would've been a Knick.

F500ONE wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Teams with Melo have to play well enough to make helpful other players want to come

I think that goes for pretty much everyone.

Not everyone. For instance...the Bulls have little issue atracting quality players even with the health concerns of their best player.

Love doesnt have a desire to go to the Cavs before lebron went back...neither does Shawn Marion.

The only players that seem to be attracted to play with melo so far are former Nuggets whom he's already struggled with.

There never was anyone in his Black Book

Because no one likes to play with Black Holes

Hopefully Phil proves to change the Melo Hex

Yup, even his bff Chris Paul denied the ride....even went as far as even denying interest.

...CP3 was traded to the Clippers, he didn't sign with them. Had he been a free agent and all things were even, I think he definitely would've been a Knick.

No he and Dwight Howard were making plans

right around 2009, take a guess who they wanted to play with

...but the landscape changed considerably in 2010 for obvious reasons. Last I checked, CP3 wasn't making wedding toasts to a big 3 in Orlando. He was doing so with New York, while in New York, which already had Amare....all at Melo's wedding.