Vmart wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

Firstly, let me know when Wiggins or Bennett become perennial allstars putting up over 25 a game and double digit rebounds. Minny didnt even have to make this deal right now, they very well could have waited and entertained other deals

The irony of this is the Knicks have had trouble in the past just beating a team with just Kyrie on it, now their very likely poor defense will have no issues with LeBron and Love as well? Cant be serious. The Knicks arent even a lock to make the playoffs let alone beat the best in the East in such.

What the Spurs did was beat a team that was the best in the East which was quite flawed. leBron is still the best in the NBA, the NBA finals loss doesnt change that.

The Cavs will likely be there this year, outside of a Bulls team with a healthy Rose nobody else is in their stratosphere.

I believe you are hyping the Cavs way to much. LeBron is still the best in the league no doubt but to say the Cavs are guaranteed to make it to the finals. No I don't believe that at this point of time. I might change my tune later but at this moment in time I don't see an aura of invincibility that some are giving the Cavs. It's non existent you have a team with a lot of inexperience, Love and Kyrie haven't won anything. It's not like LeBron, Wade and Bosh together.

Yep, every year the media (rightly) bangs on about 'defense wins championships'- now suddenly it's irrelevant?

Vmart wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

Firstly, let me know when Wiggins or Bennett become perennial allstars putting up over 25 a game and double digit rebounds. Minny didnt even have to make this deal right now, they very well could have waited and entertained other deals

The irony of this is the Knicks have had trouble in the past just beating a team with just Kyrie on it, now their very likely poor defense will have no issues with LeBron and Love as well? Cant be serious. The Knicks arent even a lock to make the playoffs let alone beat the best in the East in such.

What the Spurs did was beat a team that was the best in the East which was quite flawed. leBron is still the best in the NBA, the NBA finals loss doesnt change that.

The Cavs will likely be there this year, outside of a Bulls team with a healthy Rose nobody else is in their stratosphere.

I believe you are hyping the Cavs way to much. LeBron is still the best in the league no doubt but to say the Cavs are guaranteed to make it to the finals. No I don't believe that at this point of time. I might change my tune later but at this moment in time I don't see an aura of invincibility that some are giving the Cavs. It's non existent you have a team with a lot of inexperience, Love and Kyrie haven't won anything. It's not like LeBron, Wade and Bosh together.

I think people are sleeping on the Knicks as a potential top team. This is the first time the Knicks have direction in a very long time.

I think the Wolves got an awesome deal for a player that was planning on leaving in the first place. They just got the potential "next" player.

Watching Miami the last few years, LeBron did alot of lifting on that team...they werent a super team the last two years he was there. Bosh and wade were shells of themselves for the most part and they still made it to the finals every single year.

The east has no threat to stand in their way, sure they'll need time to gel, and during that time they'll be winning game on sheer talent.

If you truly believe the Knicks potentially could be a top team in the East, do you think they could make the finals?

knickscity wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

Firstly, let me know when Wiggins or Bennett become perennial allstars putting up over 25 a game and double digit rebounds. Minny didnt even have to make this deal right now, they very well could have waited and entertained other deals

The irony of this is the Knicks have had trouble in the past just beating a team with just Kyrie on it, now their very likely poor defense will have no issues with LeBron and Love as well? Cant be serious. The Knicks arent even a lock to make the playoffs let alone beat the best in the East in such.

What the Spurs did was beat a team that was the best in the East which was quite flawed. leBron is still the best in the NBA, the NBA finals loss doesnt change that.

The Cavs will likely be there this year, outside of a Bulls team with a healthy Rose nobody else is in their stratosphere.

I believe you are hyping the Cavs way to much. LeBron is still the best in the league no doubt but to say the Cavs are guaranteed to make it to the finals. No I don't believe that at this point of time. I might change my tune later but at this moment in time I don't see an aura of invincibility that some are giving the Cavs. It's non existent you have a team with a lot of inexperience, Love and Kyrie haven't won anything. It's not like LeBron, Wade and Bosh together.

I think people are sleeping on the Knicks as a potential top team. This is the first time the Knicks have direction in a very long time.

I think the Wolves got an awesome deal for a player that was planning on leaving in the first place. They just got the potential "next" player.

I find this odd considering nobody on the Knicks players hasn't won anything at all.

Watching Miami the last few years, LeBron did alot of lifting on that team...they werent a super team the last two years he was there. Bosh and wade were shells of themselves for the most part and they still made it to the finals every single year.

The east has no threat to stand in their way, sure they'll need time to gel, and during that time they'll be winning game on sheer talent.

If you truly believe the Knicks potentially could be a top team in the East, do you think they could make the finals?

What you call shell of themselves I call it deferment. Wade and Bosh especially took a back seat for team betterment. You weren't going to see three players averaging 25 points per game it doesn't work that way.

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

The Cavs are a lock for the Finals at this point; they are a juggernaut. Meanwhile, I still wonder if the Knicks can make it out of the first round.

No they aren't. They are no lock for first. Juggernaut really, they can't beat the Spurs they don't have the execution skills of the Spurs.

Have you seen them play? Why are you talking about their execution then?

Execution is something that comes with time. With that said it puts them in the same boat as the Knicks. New coach, new system. Are you expecting the Cavs to click with their execution right off the bat. I expect them to struggle with it as the Knicks will struggle to implement a new system.

Now I can say the same to you have you seen them play? Why elevate them to the finals at this point in time.

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

The Cavs are a lock for the Finals at this point; they are a juggernaut. Meanwhile, I still wonder if the Knicks can make it out of the first round.

No they aren't. They are no lock for first. Juggernaut really, they can't beat the Spurs they don't have the execution skills of the Spurs.

The issues with the Cavs are:

1) will they jell in time
2) Defense- they have some horrific defenders (Waiters and Love are some of the worst defenders at their positions)- really not sure they can become even an average defensive team
3) Inexperience- a lot of that team haven't even been to the playoffs
4) Center is a big worry- Varejao's injury history is pretty bad (played 31 games, 25, 25 and 66 the past 4 years)- they have nothing behind him.
5) Will Marion, Miller and Allen (if he signs with them) hold up the whole year?

So I don't think it's set in stone that they will tear it up in the playoffs- I'm excited to find out though!

LeBron took less to the Finals as a neophyte. What makes you think he'd have any problems with two legitimate all-stars AND with him in his prime?

Wade was not only a superstar but also had championship experience. Bosh also had playoff experience. Love and Irving have neither of those. Irving had character issues last season, as did Waiters- there was a tonne of immaturity on that team. Getting mature players like Lebron and Miller is a step in the right direction, but a lot of that team (including Love) has some growing up to do- never underestimate that.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The Cavs show that you can have a piece of s*** owner, make bad decision after bad decision, but still luck out and end up with a potential championship team.

Dan Gilbert- the man who made his fortune by dubious means, who was willing to lockout for the entire season because apparently teams in small markets can't compete, whined about super teams and demanded Stern block CP3 to the Lakers, ends up with a super team. Life ain't fair!

Gilbert sucks but our owner would have traded away the pick used on Lebron in a useless starphuck

Don't you find it incredibly intriguing

The success of teams assessed by our fan base

Usually is concluded with///// well "that team got lucky"

And when we talk about luck, it's not basement level success

It's near peak level or ultimate peak level of luck, these teams run into

And it's usually centered around "the lottery"

So why is it we are so turned off by trying to get lucky, so to speak

Bonn don't you want to be lucky, I know I do

You use OKC as an example

And our fans say, well OKC got lucky

The Blazers knew they should have never fell for Oden

Being the next Russell, they should have drafted Durant

You use Spurs as an example

And our fans say, well Spurs got lucky

We all know the Spurs were tanking

How often will a team have a chance to draft a Ducan type talent

You use the Cavs as an example

And our fans say, well the Cavs got lucky

Come on the NBA rigged the draft for them

The odds will never produce those results again

Lebron should never trust a snake like Gilbert

This going home stuff is never neverlandish

You use the Celtics as an example

And our fans say, well the Celtics got Irish lucky

How many GM make buddy buddy deals

The Sonics were poorly ran and eventually sold off to extinction

Next up very well may be the Wizards

A well "they got lucky" explanation is being prepped as we speak

I mean we always have a response how other teams got lucky

In each and every case it involved lottery talent springboarding these deals

Meanwhile our process has always resulted in getting

The misunderstood player, the player who's never had the proper help

The player or team who ran into buzzsaws

The team the league has an axe to grind with

The players who will re-invent themselves

The players who will resurrect their careers

How about in the future we see how valuable and lucky

Being in the lottery can prove to be

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

The Cavs are a lock for the Finals at this point; they are a juggernaut. Meanwhile, I still wonder if the Knicks can make it out of the first round.

No they aren't. They are no lock for first. Juggernaut really, they can't beat the Spurs they don't have the execution skills of the Spurs.

The issues with the Cavs are:

1) will they jell in time
2) Defense- they have some horrific defenders (Waiters and Love are some of the worst defenders at their positions)- really not sure they can become even an average defensive team
3) Inexperience- a lot of that team haven't even been to the playoffs
4) Center is a big worry- Varejao's injury history is pretty bad (played 31 games, 25, 25 and 66 the past 4 years)- they have nothing behind him.
5) Will Marion, Miller and Allen (if he signs with them) hold up the whole year?

So I don't think it's set in stone that they will tear it up in the playoffs- I'm excited to find out though!

LeBron took less to the Finals as a neophyte. What makes you think he'd have any problems with two legitimate all-stars AND with him in his prime?

Wade was not only a superstar but also had championship experience. Bosh also had playoff experience. Love and Irving have neither of those. Irving had character issues last season, as did Waiters- there was a tonne of immaturity on that team. Getting mature players like Lebron and Miller is a step in the right direction, but a lot of that team (including Love) has some growing up to do- never underestimate that.

I was referring to that awful Cavs team that started Big Z, Gooden, a washed up Eric Snow and a soon to be washed up Larry Hughes. If he could get that trash to the Finals, this season should be a cakewalk with him at his best he's ever been.

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Cavs got hosed in the deal. Wolves are laughing their heads off with this deal. Cavs just gave up the "Next" for Love. I believe the Knicks will have no problems with the Cavs going forward. The Spurs to me have reduced LeBron and his mystic in my eyes.

The Cavs are a lock for the Finals at this point; they are a juggernaut. Meanwhile, I still wonder if the Knicks can make it out of the first round.

No they aren't. They are no lock for first. Juggernaut really, they can't beat the Spurs they don't have the execution skills of the Spurs.

The issues with the Cavs are:

1) will they jell in time
2) Defense- they have some horrific defenders (Waiters and Love are some of the worst defenders at their positions)- really not sure they can become even an average defensive team
3) Inexperience- a lot of that team haven't even been to the playoffs
4) Center is a big worry- Varejao's injury history is pretty bad (played 31 games, 25, 25 and 66 the past 4 years)- they have nothing behind him.
5) Will Marion, Miller and Allen (if he signs with them) hold up the whole year?

So I don't think it's set in stone that they will tear it up in the playoffs- I'm excited to find out though!

LeBron took less to the Finals as a neophyte. What makes you think he'd have any problems with two legitimate all-stars AND with him in his prime?

Everyone wants to say that LeBron took less to the finals. Yes but to the credit of the others who left it all on the floor with him. Big Z, Varejao, Hughes, Snow these guys were leaving it on the defensive side of the floor every night. No one wants to see that side of the floor for the Cavs. After that was LeBron able to take them back? No he had to leave and join forces with Bosh and Wade. We'll I just don't see Bosh and Wade when I look at Love and Kyrie. I see two player that have made very little impact in the NBA.

Most of the guys you mentioned were either out of the league OR became bench players before being on their way out of the league in 2-3 seasons. There was nothing remarkable about that group. Hell, I distinctly remember LeBron having to score 25 straight points by himself to get that team past the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals. We could've put you at point and me at the 4 and that team would be no better or worse.

As for Bosh, what impact did he have on the league before teaming up with LeBron? Certainly not anything better than Kevin Love. You got a point about Dwayne Wade but he became irrelevant by the 3rd year of the Heat's championship run. I think an up-and-coming Kyrie Irving could duplicate his play at that stage in Wade's career fairly easily. Can he be prime Dwayne Wade? Maybe not but you don't need that next to LeBron, who is still in his prime.

NardDogNation wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The Cavs show that you can have a piece of s*** owner, make bad decision after bad decision, but still luck out and end up with a potential championship team.

Dan Gilbert- the man who made his fortune by dubious means, who was willing to lockout for the entire season because apparently teams in small markets can't compete, whined about super teams and demanded Stern block CP3 to the Lakers, ends up with a super team. Life ain't fair!

Gilbert sucks but our owner would have traded away the pick used on Lebron in a useless starphuck

Don't you find it incredibly intriguing

The success of teams assessed by our fan base

Usually is concluded with///// well "that team got lucky"

And when we talk about luck, it's not basement level success

It's near peak level or ultimate peak level of luck, these teams run into

And it's usually centered around "the lottery"

So why is it we are so turned off by trying to get lucky, so to speak

Bonn don't you want to be lucky, I know I do

You use OKC as an example

And our fans say, well OKC got lucky

The Blazers knew they should have never fell for Oden

Being the next Russell, they should have drafted Durant

You use Spurs as an example

And our fans say, well Spurs got lucky

We all know the Spurs were tanking

How often will a team have a chance to draft a Ducan type talent

You use the Cavs as an example

And our fans say, well the Cavs got lucky

Come on the NBA rigged the draft for them

The odds will never produce those results again

Lebron should never trust a snake like Gilbert

This going home stuff is never neverlandish

You use the Celtics as an example

And our fans say, well the Celtics got Irish lucky

How many GM make buddy buddy deals

The Sonics were poorly ran and eventually sold off to extinction

Next up very well may be the Wizards

A well "they got lucky" explanation is being prepped as we speak

I mean we always have a response how other teams got lucky

In each and every case it involved lottery talent springboarding these deals

Meanwhile our process has always resulted in getting

The misunderstood player, the player who's never had the proper help

The player or team who ran into buzzsaws

The team the league has an axe to grind with

The players who will re-invent themselves

The players who will resurrect their careers

How about in the future we see how valuable and lucky

Being in the lottery can prove to be

How many teams have had 3 no.1 picks in a decade? None outside of the Cavs. That's what we're referring to when we call them "lucky". Their experiences in the draft are not the norm, especially when you consider the talent that was available at those spots.

Hence I didn't use only the Cavs as an example

Got a valid explanation why all the other teams were lucky

Do you not find it peculiar luck

Escapes us, seemingly to follow all other teams

At some point it's either not luck

Or maybe just maybe we should be operating

In the same luck force field when trying to put a

Winning recipe together

Miami went to 4 straight finals. Give the props.

Cav's have a very bright future and of course there are questions to be answered. YOung coach in his rookie season.

They stay healthy on paper they are stacked. As is Chicago. Varajao will miss games as will kyrie. When and how man is the question.

meantime he's going to make it to the final four no matter who he plays with or who he plays for. the key will be how effective they can play defense at that juncture. i heard a podcast with shaq who said defense is crucial but he emphasized that the heart of the matter is getting timely stops more than being the highest-rated defense.

so yes the cavs are without doubt making it to the final four-- this should be anybody's definition of nba success.