nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Not sure but Dub fans probably feel incredibly optimistic

They improved the past 2yrs while/////

Mark Jackson was fighting past love affairs, coaches, and mgmt

And they won 50+gms last year

Replace Jackson with Kerr and THE TRIANGLE

Olympic experience of both Curry and Klay

Owner passionate about winning a chip

West possibly wide open, maybe they feel 7-12gm improvement from last year and a 1-2seed finish heading into playoffs

How is the West "wide open"? You think the Warriors can finish 1 or 2 in the West?

Who is clearly better than the Warriors if you factor in the Triangle?

Keep in mind only 8gms separated them from being a 2 seed

Adding Livingston and Rush along with Barnes having a breakout season why not?

Does the Triangle affect only work on the East team and not the West

The West isn't wide open as you stated. It's freakin tough and congested with good teams. They had 7 50 win teams and Dallas won 49!!! GS was a 6 seed and it was a really close fight but let's not make stuff up about it being wide open. If they struggle even a little bit to adjust to this new style of play that could be huge and keep them from being a 1 or 2 seed as you seem to think they have a chance to do. You're talking about a 60 win team. You can't have a slow start so better hope Kerr gets this right.

Why are you high on the impact of the Triangle with the Warriors and not the Knicks? The Warriors are a very good team. It's hard to know how much the Triangle will impact their roster. Kerr isn't going to run a strict Triangle Offense. He's doing a kind of hybrid thing. He's using other sets like "Horns". It will be very interesting to see how he does things. His team is slanted towards the PG spot and he's gonna have to have an offense where his PG can have the ball in his hands, which is counter to the Triangle's normal focus.

The Knicks situation is different. This team underachieved and has a lot of room to improve having NOTHING to do with the Triangle!!! If they simply played up to their abilities like they did to close out the year they would've won a ton more games. They showed that by going 16-7 to finish the year with no Triangle involved. This is part of what we've been trying to tell you. The Knicks have a huge upside compared to what we saw last year. Better leadership, players, coaching and system are a lot of areas of improvement. GS was closer to their max than the Knicks where. The impact of changes may not be as great since they already were playing well. Still it's possible that GS could improve a lot and everything goes perfectly. Just remember that they play in the West and not the East. Even with the East getting a little better they're not as good as the teams in the West.

If you go look back at our previous seasons, the back half

You'll see some similar trends

You're now allowing the finish to shape your overall perspective of the team

I'm not, you are what your record says you are

If the West is what you say it is, in terms of competitive balance

Well we play 32 of our games against many of those juggernauts

Hence if Warriors will struggle out that way

No room for slippage even more so for us

That leaves the East

Let me guess you feel we'll run through our Conference with ease

Okay so when I showed how we did last year in splits across conferences

Asking to place victories where you feel so confidently in improvements/////

Why not say who we'll season best against

We'll surely have to win several season series in the East, you realize this correct?

The West being "wide open" IMO means any team after the Spurs has a legit shot

If things break right, there wasn't great separation between 2-8

You realize the Dallas team you laud Jose playing on

Taking the Spurs to 7gms, was an 8th seed right

I see what you guys are saying. Perhaps in my mind I just didn't quite understand the term wide open properly. For some reason for me I was taking it to be a very tough conference where you really can't have any hiccups and expect to have a chance to be a 1 or 2 seed. You pretty much have to be on point to get that high cuz the level of competition is stiff. I do get the point that all the teams are good and much closer in talent level and thus you could say any team is capable of moving up. Yes if things break right any team could move up. I do believe tho that there's no margin for error. A team like GS trying all this new stuff with a new coach won't have the luxury of stumbling out the gate of they'll drop real fast and may not be able to catch up.

GS has to be careful not to be caught from behind as well. It's not a static situation. So while they are hoping to make advances they have other good teams that aren't that far off from them. Not much separation from GS, Mem, Dal and Phx. Like I said they can't stumble for any serious period of time.

Western 	W 	L 	PCT 	GB 	CONF 	DIV 	HOME 	ROAD 	L 10 	STREAK
San Antonio 	62 	20 	0.756 	0.0 	38-14 	12-4 	32-9 	30-11 	6-4 	L 2
Oklahoma City 	59 	23 	0.720 	3.0 	36-16 	11-5 	34-7 	25-16 	6-4 	W 1
L.A. Clippers 	57 	25 	0.695 	5.0 	36-16 	12-4 	34-7 	23-18 	7-3 	L 1
Houston 	54 	28 	0.659 	8.0 	31-21 	11-5 	33-8 	21-20 	5-5 	L 1
Portland        54 	28 	0.659 	8.0 	31-21 	13-3 	31-10 	23-18 	9-1 	W 5
Golden State    51 	31 	0.622 	11.0 	31-21 	11-5 	27-14 	24-17 	6-4 	W 2
Memphis 	50 	32 	0.610 	12.0 	29-23 	4-12 	27-14 	23-18 	7-3 	W 5
Dallas 	        49 	33 	0.598 	13.0 	29-23 	9-7 	26-15 	23-18 	6-4 	L 1
Phoenix 	48 	34 	0.585 	14.0 	28-24 	8-8 	26-15 	22-19 	5-5 	W 1

Neither can we

I think DK has been predicting a slow start

After the schedule came out I recall you made a post

Saying we may start off slow

In case you didn't know if we start off slow

I'll translate this to be first month out the gate slow

We'll play 26 of the remaining 64 games against West teams

Go ahead and think we can do this while reaching close to 50wins

The East is no more "wide open" than the West

For us to move from 37 wins to 50 wins

Than for Golden State to move from 50 wins to 58-59 wins

Using the Triangle System

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:Slow in the East verses slow in the West is a big difference. I don't think there are as many teams that will run away from us in the East if we did start somewhat slow. By Slow I don't mean like last year which was an unmitigated disaster. That's not slow that was just losing. It's gonna be an interesting thing to watch with these teams. GS is a very talented team and I like what Kerr is trying to do. I just don't now if they can get to 1 or 2 seed even with the move to a bit of the Triangle. They may not have as much of a strict Triangle style as we have due to the make up of the roster. We don't have a Steph Curry.

So Kerr can teach Triangle and another system due to Curry factor?

That would make Kerr more diverse wouldn't it

Warriors don't have Melo either

We supposedly have a very unique talent ourselves

Wouldn't this call for some Triangle modification tweaking sophistication

Let's be more reasonable here

There will only be about 2-3 teams in the East reaching 50 wins or more

We are not 1 of those teams

Now if you want to scale back and say we'll improve from 37 wins

To getting enough wins to make the playoffs whatever that may be

Okay maybe, if everything breaks right

I still have my druthers

The East overall is much better than you think

The West will find this out more than anyone

Melo is one of the most tailor made players to be in the Triangle. PG's are diminished in their role in the Triangle in terms of being ball dominant. The entire point of the Triangle is to get the ball out of the PG's hands and have as many players touch the ball as possible. They want to keep things moving and so you don't even need a PG in order to run the Triangle effectively. Phil actually played without a PG in his starting lineup when he used Ron Harper in the back court.

I'm not saying that Steph can't play in the Triangle. That's stupid, but you're not running a traditional Triangle offense with a ball dominant PG doing all the things he would usually do and still call it a Triangle offense. Kerr will likely want to mix it up so that it fits his team. Here in NY Phil was able to tweak the team roster to fit the Triangle better. Kerr is dealing with a team that wasn't built to play the Triangle. Doesn't mean he won't do a good job or that they won't win. Just saying they will be a bit different due to personnel.

Why you think the Knicks can't win 50 games is based solely on your own opinion and from what i've seen nothing really based on any reasoned explanation. It's possible in some peoples minds that the Knicks could win 45 games which isn't gangbusters and i'm just 5 more wins above that. It's not like i'm way out there. The East is better but let's not exaggerate the issue. There are some brutal teams in the East still. I don't know why you are so convinced that the Knicks can't win 50 games. If they win 48 will you be shocked? They have enough talent to be able to do that. It's not some huge number of wins that is unattainable. I definitely don't see this team repeating a 37 win season that's for sure.

VDesai wrote:Jackson disciples on their own haven't been that succesful as head coaches (Cleamons and Rambis are perfect examples), but some Jackson disciples with the real thing lurking in the background gives me a lot more confidence.

I always think it's amazing how many good coaches came from working under Pat Riley- think he must have by far the most in league history?

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VDesai wrote:Jackson disciples on their own haven't been that succesful as head coaches (Cleamons and Rambis are perfect examples), but some Jackson disciples with the real thing lurking in the background gives me a lot more confidence.

I always think it's amazing how many good coaches came from working under Pat Riley- think he must have by far the most in league history?

Larry Brown's "Tree" is also quite bountiful!
Roy Williams, Bill Self, Alvin Gentry was an assistant for Brown on the 1988 National Championship team that also included future San Antonio Spurs General Manager R. C. Buford as an assistant coach. Spurs coach Gregg Popovich also spent a year as a volunteer to Brown at Kansas. Brown took all three with him to San Antonio when he became the Spurs coach in 1988. Also, current University of Kentucky head coach John Calipari was an assistant under Brown at Kansas. Former Kansas players Mark Turgeon and Tad Boyle, coaches of the University of Maryland, College Park and the University of Colorado at Boulder respectively, played for Brown at Kansas.
Danny Manning, who played for Brown at Kansas from 1984 to 1988, served as the Jayhawks' assistant coach under Self from 2007 to 2012 and is now the head coach at Wake Forest University. Kevin Pritchard, the starting point guard on Kansas' 1988 NCAA Division I men's championship team with Manning and Brown, was coach/general manager of the ABA's Kansas City Knights as well as interim coach/general manager of the Portland Trail Blazers. He is now GM in Indy.
Former New York Knicks head coach Mike Woodson served as an assistant to Brown during Brown's brief time coaching the Detroit Pistons. Woodson left after the 2004 NBA championship to become head coach of the Atlanta Hawks.

Under phil is Kerr and Phish as well. Cleamons and Rambis actually got head coaching gigs which itself is impressive! There are not many jobs to be. Off the top of my Head Phil has placed Brian Shaw,Paxton (Front office) Kerr, Fish, Rambis, Frank Hamblin (interm for Rudy T.) Cartright (brief), Walton and Cleamons. Thats Nine!!! Lets put it this way, while Jordan was going to be wealthy with or with out phil, It wasn't until PHil came to Bulls in Jordans Sixth Season, and did not win his first chip until his seventh season. That set the wage scale thru the roof on and off the court and perhaps we can say Jackson's tree extends to Jordan, the first player to own a team!!!!
No other coach has a player who went on to own his own team!!!

Phil's tree is not littered with success but the guys got the gigs and it demonstrates how tough it is to assemble the right formula for front office to be in synch with its coach and construction of a proper roster to impliment a system guy. Patience is not a virtue many owners have!!!!!

the difference is, none of those names assemble a back office from top to bottom, this is a unique situation we have here. Were talking about a president hiring everybody of his liking. No owner favorites, or coachng favorites. I'm sure D fisher was cool with all the hirings, but this is a recipe for complete success.

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:Slow in the East verses slow in the West is a big difference. I don't think there are as many teams that will run away from us in the East if we did start somewhat slow. By Slow I don't mean like last year which was an unmitigated disaster. That's not slow that was just losing. It's gonna be an interesting thing to watch with these teams. GS is a very talented team and I like what Kerr is trying to do. I just don't now if they can get to 1 or 2 seed even with the move to a bit of the Triangle. They may not have as much of a strict Triangle style as we have due to the make up of the roster. We don't have a Steph Curry.

So Kerr can teach Triangle and another system due to Curry factor?

That would make Kerr more diverse wouldn't it

Warriors don't have Melo either

We supposedly have a very unique talent ourselves

Wouldn't this call for some Triangle modification tweaking sophistication

Let's be more reasonable here

There will only be about 2-3 teams in the East reaching 50 wins or more

We are not 1 of those teams

Now if you want to scale back and say we'll improve from 37 wins

To getting enough wins to make the playoffs whatever that may be

Okay maybe, if everything breaks right

I still have my druthers

The East overall is much better than you think

The West will find this out more than anyone

Why you think the Knicks can't win 50 games is based solely on your own opinion and from what i've seen nothing really based on any reasoned explanation. It's possible in some peoples minds that the Knicks could win 45 games which isn't gangbusters and i'm just 5 more wins above that. It's not like i'm way out there. The East is better but let's not exaggerate the issue. There are some brutal teams in the East still. I don't know why you are so convinced that the Knicks can't win 50 games. If they win 48 will you be shocked? They have enough talent to be able to do that. It's not some huge number of wins that is unattainable. I definitely don't see this team repeating a 37 win season that's for sure.

Actually Melo's game is not tailor made for the Triangle because

He's not a ball mover nor does he move fluidly within an offense himself

He will have to make major adjustments first and foremost

Or we will have to tweak it some to fit his habits and tendencies better

If anything THJR's game is tailor made for the triangle

Curry is great for the Triangle actually

Just because he plays point guard and handles the ball a lot does not mean

Kerr will have to rewrite the tri-system for Curry

He's a ball mover hence his 8.5ast/avg last year and

He can shoot the rock on the perimeter allowing interior operation for system

Curry also has some two guard in him, quick release, can get his own shot, very good off ball

In the end you haven't done a good job explaining how we will win 50gms other

Than saying we have Phil, Fish, Calderon

I'm considering the entire landscape of the NBA

You're considering the Knicks backyard

F500ONE wrote:Actually Melo's game is not tailor made for the Triangle because

He's not a ball mover nor does he move fluidly within an offense himself

He will have to make major adjustments first and foremost

Or we will have to tweak it some to fit his habits and tendencies better

Melo is one of the best catch and shoot players. Melo can pass the ball and he can move fluidly. He's not really going to have to learn any new skills, but of course he's not going to be playing the way he was when he wasn't playing in this system. That's just common sense. It doesn't mean he lacks the skills to do it tho.

This coach explains why Melo should be very good in the Triangle

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Actually Melo's game is not tailor made for the Triangle because

He's not a ball mover nor does he move fluidly within an offense himself

He will have to make major adjustments first and foremost

Or we will have to tweak it some to fit his habits and tendencies better

Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

More like you have no idea what you're talking about

http://seen.co/event/mit-sloan-sports-analytics-conference-2014-boston-ma-2014-9209/highlight/128611

From the horses mouth at the conference on Stephen Curry

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/statuses/439534838232907776

This conference took place right before we hired him

Yet he didn't mention Melo.

Now you can carry on as you wish

But everyone sees this massive truth revealed

The constant Youtube drops from you are so adorable, keep em coming

Steph Curry is a great shooter and overall offensive player so of course Phil would like him. What does that have to do with Melo and whether he has the skills to be great in the Triangle offense??? As usual you're confusing the issue. It's not whether there could be a BETTER player for the Triangle in the NBA. The issue is whether Melo and his skills would work well in the Triangle. Phil CHOSE to come here and he CHOSE to resign Melo. If Phil was as convinced as you that Melo is a poor fit NO WAY he makes the decisions he has in coming here and resigning Melo as a priority. Stop trying so hard to one up me with dumb observations like this. It's not exactly a news flash that Curry is a great offensive player. You just stated the obvious, which is that a player as talented as Curry is gonna be liked by top coaches. What coach wouldn't like a player like Curry???

You didn't refute anything I posted you just added another point that really has NOTHING to do with whether MELO can play in the Triangle. If Curry can, great, but SO WHAT? How does that impact my points about Melo? You seem to always try and do that. I make a point and you change the subject by bringing up a mostly unrelated point that doesn't refute or disprove anything I said.

Kerr is tweaking the Triangle and adding other plays because he knows that the normal flow of the Triangle doesn't feature the PG in all the ways the Curry can excel. Go and name the PG's who Phil has had that plays like Curry??? Now as a purely skilled offensive player, Curry could operate more like an MJ or Kobe with some tweaks. He's not gonna be used the way Fisher and many other PJax PG's were used at the PG spot. Still this has NOTHING to do with how Melo's game fits the Triangle.

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Actually Melo's game is not tailor made for the Triangle because

He's not a ball mover nor does he move fluidly within an offense himself

He will have to make major adjustments first and foremost

Or we will have to tweak it some to fit his habits and tendencies better

Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

More like you have no idea what you're talking about

http://seen.co/event/mit-sloan-sports-analytics-conference-2014-boston-ma-2014-9209/highlight/128611

From the horses mouth at the conference on Stephen Curry

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/statuses/439534838232907776

This conference took place right before we hired him

Yet he didn't mention Melo.

Now you can carry on as you wish

But everyone sees this massive truth revealed

The constant Youtube drops from you are so adorable, keep em coming

Kerr is tweaking the Triangle and adding other plays because he knows that the normal flow of the Triangle doesn't feature the PG in all the ways the Curry can excel.

Bottomline, in this thread you implied Curry is not as ideal for the triangle

I posted a direct quote from our beloved and trusted Phil

Who has told you in the past Curry is a profile beyond for the triangle

Because if Curry were here, your illogical reasoning would conclude Fisher would have to rework much of the triangle for Curry

No way would you succumb to such reply

Curry is gonna make it seamless for Kerr to implement it whenever he decides to run it

The tweaking of his offense has more to do with remaining roster outside of Curry

Show me a quote from Phil that says Melo is tailor made for this system

Last time I checked Fisher is "tweaking" things so Melo doesn't chit the bed in second halves