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ESPN picks Knicks to finish 37-45 and #10 in the east
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fishmike
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8/12/2014  11:37 AM
gunsnewing wrote:1)Cavs
2)Bulls
3)Wiz
4)Heat
5)Knicks 45-37
6)Hornets
7)Hawks
8)Raptors

Knicks-Heat 1st rd what else is new!

Hopefully better in 2015/16

switch out Heat and Raptors... why do you think the Heat will be so high? They have no depth and two of their big 3 (Deng/Wade) missed like 50+ games last year.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Vmart
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8/12/2014  11:41 AM
The Knicks are going to win 50+ this coming year. One or two seed.
OasisBU
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8/12/2014  11:45 AM
I have read a lot of talk about the Knicks winning more games this year and possibly sneaking into the playoffs. Personally, I think this is repeating history where we will be a mediocre team and hurt our draft pick # in order to win a meaningless amount of games. Whether we are a first round exit, make it to the second round, or miss making the playoffs by a few games - all of those scenarios are bad.

Now I dont know how deep the draft will be, but I do know that picking in the #12-15 range is not going to do much. We need to be in a position where we can pick players we need/want - not picking up leftovers, fallen picks, etc. Sure those are great when you can get them but winners are built at the top of the lottery.

If we arent going to win a championship then we need to build a contending team. I just don't think we are even close yet so why sacrifice our pick for mediocrity?

It is the same thing we have seen for decades now. Sure Jax is at the helm and hopefully he doesnt make stupid trades, but we do need some quality picks too.

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
gunsnewing
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8/12/2014  11:52 AM
fishmike wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:1)Cavs
2)Bulls
3)Wiz
4)Heat
5)Knicks 45-37
6)Hornets
7)Hawks
8)Raptors

Knicks-Heat 1st rd what else is new!

Hopefully better in 2015/16

switch out Heat and Raptors... why do you think the Heat will be so high? They have no depth and two of their big 3 (Deng/Wade) missed like 50+ games last year.

I like Bosh, Wade(slim) & Deng in. Miami's system better than Lowry(possible drop off) & Derozan. I don't see the raptors repeating what they did last year. Division was awful and they didn't improve their roster. Not enough talent imo
gunsnewing
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8/12/2014  11:54 AM
OasisBU wrote:I have read a lot of talk about the Knicks winning more games this year and possibly sneaking into the playoffs. Personally, I think this is repeating history where we will be a mediocre team and hurt our draft pick # in order to win a meaningless amount of games. Whether we are a first round exit, make it to the second round, or miss making the playoffs by a few games - all of those scenarios are bad.

Now I dont know how deep the draft will be, but I do know that picking in the #12-15 range is not going to do much. We need to be in a position where we can pick players we need/want - not picking up leftovers, fallen picks, etc. Sure those are great when you can get them but winners are built at the top of the lottery.

If we arent going to win a championship then we need to build a contending team. I just don't think we are even close yet so why sacrifice our pick for mediocrity?

It is the same thing we have seen for decades now. Sure Jax is at the helm and hopefully he doesnt make stupid trades, but we do need some quality picks too.

It is what it is. Better hope we are not still stuck in mediocre after 2015 depending on the level of talent we can afford under the cap
nixluva
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8/12/2014  11:59 AM
I've said it before, but I think the Knicks will win the Atlantic. Too much is made of last year, which IMO is clearly an aberration. There's no way that team should've only won 37 games if everyone was simply playing at their career avg. Nothing special, just doing what they normally do. The reason i'm high on this year is because I think Phil and Fish, as his protege, will get more out of these players. Some people keep acting like Phil is just gonna stay away like a normal GM, but he's gonna be around offering his assistance when needed. Phil will be talking to Fish and even help at practices from time to time. Fish admitted that this would happen. Most GM's or Presidents don't have as much to offer a Head Coach as Phil does.

Phil's M.O. is find a way to get the most out of his players. He's going to share that knowledge with Fish and the rest of the team. There's no way that Phil wants to be associated with a failure. We can see how he's been on top of things from day one. He's been tweaking the roster to more of his kind of team. He can't do that 100% yet, but he's still made some changes that should make a difference. Just remember how many games the Knicks should've won that they threw away with poor execution and mistakes. This team should be better equipped to execute at a higher level this year. That ISO heavy offense is gone. Now they'll be running a team oriented offense with ball and player movement. This should stop things from always bogging down. IMO 37 wins and missing the playoffs, is just not something I can see Phil being associated with.
fishmike
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8/12/2014  12:25 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
OasisBU wrote:I have read a lot of talk about the Knicks winning more games this year and possibly sneaking into the playoffs. Personally, I think this is repeating history where we will be a mediocre team and hurt our draft pick # in order to win a meaningless amount of games. Whether we are a first round exit, make it to the second round, or miss making the playoffs by a few games - all of those scenarios are bad.

Now I dont know how deep the draft will be, but I do know that picking in the #12-15 range is not going to do much. We need to be in a position where we can pick players we need/want - not picking up leftovers, fallen picks, etc. Sure those are great when you can get them but winners are built at the top of the lottery.

If we arent going to win a championship then we need to build a contending team. I just don't think we are even close yet so why sacrifice our pick for mediocrity?

It is the same thing we have seen for decades now. Sure Jax is at the helm and hopefully he doesnt make stupid trades, but we do need some quality picks too.

It is what it is. Better hope we are not still stuck in mediocre after 2015 depending on the level of talent we can afford under the cap

Lakers... they just draft Julius Randle 7th. Last time they had a lottery pick (or anything below the 20s) was Andrew Bynum taking with pick #10 in 2005. Before that the last lottery pick they had Eddie Jones in 1993. I would say that having years of tanking is NOT required to be good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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8/12/2014  12:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/12/2014  12:29 PM
OasisBU wrote:I have read a lot of talk about the Knicks winning more games this year and possibly sneaking into the playoffs. Personally, I think this is repeating history where we will be a mediocre team and hurt our draft pick # in order to win a meaningless amount of games. Whether we are a first round exit, make it to the second round, or miss making the playoffs by a few games - all of those scenarios are bad.

Now I dont know how deep the draft will be, but I do know that picking in the #12-15 range is not going to do much. We need to be in a position where we can pick players we need/want - not picking up leftovers, fallen picks, etc. Sure those are great when you can get them but winners are built at the top of the lottery.

If we arent going to win a championship then we need to build a contending team. I just don't think we are even close yet so why sacrifice our pick for mediocrity?

It is the same thing we have seen for decades now. Sure Jax is at the helm and hopefully he doesnt make stupid trades, but we do need some quality picks too.

You don't think were close, I'm confused, every player other than melo played well below their norm. our biggest issue was the pg, (which cost at least dozen games).

And let me get this straight,teams that get high lottery picks don't become contenders the following yr, they usually get another high pick at the end of the yr. It's not when you draft (see spurs) it's how you draft. You don't need to tank and make your franchise unattractive to potential FA.

ES
fishmike
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8/12/2014  12:31 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
OasisBU wrote:I have read a lot of talk about the Knicks winning more games this year and possibly sneaking into the playoffs. Personally, I think this is repeating history where we will be a mediocre team and hurt our draft pick # in order to win a meaningless amount of games. Whether we are a first round exit, make it to the second round, or miss making the playoffs by a few games - all of those scenarios are bad.

Now I dont know how deep the draft will be, but I do know that picking in the #12-15 range is not going to do much. We need to be in a position where we can pick players we need/want - not picking up leftovers, fallen picks, etc. Sure those are great when you can get them but winners are built at the top of the lottery.

If we arent going to win a championship then we need to build a contending team. I just don't think we are even close yet so why sacrifice our pick for mediocrity?

It is the same thing we have seen for decades now. Sure Jax is at the helm and hopefully he doesnt make stupid trades, but we do need some quality picks too.

You don't think were close, I'm confused, every player other than melo played well below their norm. our biggest issue was the pg, (which cost at least dozen games).

And let me get this straight,teams that get high lottery picks don't become contenders the following yr, they usually get another high pick at the end of the yr. It's not when you draft (see spurs) it's how you draft. You don't need to tank and make your franchise un attractive to potential FA.

FAs dont go to bad teams unless they outbid everyone. See Al Jefferson and Amare. Other from that they want to get paid AND go somewhere that is desirable to play.

If the Knicks want to attract a high caliber FA or two next year its critical to play +500 ball and make the playoffs. Winning a series would be nice. Avoid Chi/Cle in round 1 they can def win a series.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
H1AND1
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8/12/2014  12:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/12/2014  12:43 PM
gunsnewing wrote:1)Cavs
2)Bulls
3)Wiz
4)Heat
5)Knicks 45-37
6)Hornets
7)Hawks
8)Raptors

Knicks-Heat 1st rd what else is new!

Hopefully better in 2015/16

The Hornets will be higher. I think they will be very good next season.
gunsnewing
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8/12/2014  12:45 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:1)Cavs
2)Bulls
3)Wiz
4)Heat
5)Knicks 45-37
6)Hornets
7)Hawks
8)Raptors

Knicks-Heat 1st rd what else is new!

Hopefully better in 2015/16

The Hornets will be higher. I think they will be very good next season.

I hope so Hornets are my favorite team
H1AND1
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8/12/2014  12:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/12/2014  12:48 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:1)Cavs
2)Bulls
3)Wiz
4)Heat
5)Knicks 45-37
6)Hornets
7)Hawks
8)Raptors

Knicks-Heat 1st rd what else is new!

Hopefully better in 2015/16

The Hornets will be higher. I think they will be very good next season.

I hope so Hornets are my favorite team

They already had a potent defense. Jefferson played his ass off last season. Kemba has developed into something more than solid and now they have a pissed off ready to prove something Lance Stephenson. They're darkhorses for the 3 seed IMO. And if MKG can ever learn how to shoot?
gunsnewing
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8/12/2014  12:54 PM
Yea and Steve Clifford is a JVG disciple. Like Thibbs he gets his guys to play above expectations. Go Hornets!
gunsnewing
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8/12/2014  12:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/12/2014  12:59 PM
You are right I can see the Hornets finish as high as 4th and the Knicks 6th or lower

I will keep the Knicks at 5th though based on the slight upgrade at PG and the fact that Phil and Derek are running things
Nalod
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8/12/2014  1:22 PM
Too much Knick Homer Unobjective emotionality implimented.

If healthy? Bargnani and Amare but not BroPez and Deron? fans can have it both ways I suppose.


Who protects the Rim for Knicks? I like the deal we got exporting Felton and Tyson but we'll miss FluTy more than we imagine.
His extraction might make people happy but nobody is filling in the need.


Knicks? I dunno, I think they will compete for the 8th spot so a 10th prediction is not crazy.

Triangulization........Problem is a slow start might derail the playoff reality early. Stick to plan will require patience. Is the plan to get in teh lottery next season?

I expect Phil to be around training camp a lot and ease Fish into the role. Make no bones about it, it will be Fish's team. Its a transition year and an opportunity to lay the first base of the new culture.
On paper the team looks like a 37 win team. More important to Nalod is how we finish the season, not so much how we start.

Im excited to see how we use our players and settle into roles. Bargs in particular. Melo's numbers falling would be a good sign if he is more active in other areas
gunsnewing
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8/12/2014  1:40 PM
lol only here I can be called a homer and a hater on the same day. That's why I love this place
Knixkik
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8/12/2014  1:48 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
OasisBU wrote:I have read a lot of talk about the Knicks winning more games this year and possibly sneaking into the playoffs. Personally, I think this is repeating history where we will be a mediocre team and hurt our draft pick # in order to win a meaningless amount of games. Whether we are a first round exit, make it to the second round, or miss making the playoffs by a few games - all of those scenarios are bad.

Now I dont know how deep the draft will be, but I do know that picking in the #12-15 range is not going to do much. We need to be in a position where we can pick players we need/want - not picking up leftovers, fallen picks, etc. Sure those are great when you can get them but winners are built at the top of the lottery.

If we arent going to win a championship then we need to build a contending team. I just don't think we are even close yet so why sacrifice our pick for mediocrity?

It is the same thing we have seen for decades now. Sure Jax is at the helm and hopefully he doesnt make stupid trades, but we do need some quality picks too.

You don't think were close, I'm confused, every player other than melo played well below their norm. our biggest issue was the pg, (which cost at least dozen games).

And let me get this straight,teams that get high lottery picks don't become contenders the following yr, they usually get another high pick at the end of the yr. It's not when you draft (see spurs) it's how you draft. You don't need to tank and make your franchise un attractive to potential FA.

FAs dont go to bad teams unless they outbid everyone. See Al Jefferson and Amare. Other from that they want to get paid AND go somewhere that is desirable to play.

If the Knicks want to attract a high caliber FA or two next year its critical to play +500 ball and make the playoffs. Winning a series would be nice. Avoid Chi/Cle in round 1 they can def win a series.

This is absolutely true and a major reason we are so fortunate to have Melo back among many other reasons.
nixluva
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8/12/2014  1:52 PM
Nalod wrote:Too much Knick Homer Unobjective emotionality implimented.

If healthy? Bargnani and Amare but not BroPez and Deron? fans can have it both ways I suppose.


Who protects the Rim for Knicks? I like the deal we got exporting Felton and Tyson but we'll miss FluTy more than we imagine.
His extraction might make people happy but nobody is filling in the need.


Knicks? I dunno, I think they will compete for the 8th spot so a 10th prediction is not crazy.

I actually thought the Knicks looked good when Tyson was out and of all people Bargs played Center. It was a short stretch but did show that it could be done.

DATE	OPP	SCORE	 MIN	FGM-FGA  FG%  REB  AST  BLK  STL  PTS
Mon 1/13 vsPHX W 98-96    33	3-8	.375  7	   1    1    0    10
Sat 1/11 @ PHI W 102-92   24	4-9	.444  4	   3    0    0    10
Thu 1/9	 vsMIA W 102-92   42	9-13	.692  5	   0    1    0    19
Tue 1/7	 vsDET W 89-85    32	6-13	.462  11   1    0    2    13
Sun 1/5	 @ DAL W 92-80    26	6-12	.500  6	   0    0    0    13
Fri 1/3	 @ HOU L 100-102  30	3-10	.300  8	   0    2    0    7 
Thu 1/2	 @ SA  W 105-101  22	3-8	.375  3	   1    1    0    10

If you notice the level of defense that was being played, you can see that they did pretty good against even good teams. If that level of defense was possible with Bargs playing Center then it's something that can be duplicated with the right coaching. Whatever special sauce was going on at that time they need to figure out the recipe and get that level of play the entire year from Bargs.
fishmike
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8/12/2014  1:54 PM
Nalod wrote:Too much Knick Homer Unobjective emotionality implimented.

If healthy? Bargnani and Amare but not BroPez and Deron? fans can have it both ways I suppose.


Who protects the Rim for Knicks? I like the deal we got exporting Felton and Tyson but we'll miss FluTy more than we imagine.
His extraction might make people happy but nobody is filling in the need.


Knicks? I dunno, I think they will compete for the 8th spot so a 10th prediction is not crazy.

Triangulization........Problem is a slow start might derail the playoff reality early. Stick to plan will require patience. Is the plan to get in teh lottery next season?

I expect Phil to be around training camp a lot and ease Fish into the role. Make no bones about it, it will be Fish's team. Its a transition year and an opportunity to lay the first base of the new culture.
On paper the team looks like a 37 win team. More important to Nalod is how we finish the season, not so much how we start.

Im excited to see how we use our players and settle into roles. Bargs in particular. Melo's numbers falling would be a good sign if he is more active in other areas

We will miss the Tyson from the 54 win team, not last year... I agree with that for sure. Just like we are hoping for the JR from that same team. Smith and Dalembert are here to protect the rim. What their impact will be we will see. Im sure Fisher has a plan and has bounced 40,000 ideas off Phil (a pretty solid sounding board).
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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8/12/2014  4:49 PM
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:Too much Knick Homer Unobjective emotionality implimented.

If healthy? Bargnani and Amare but not BroPez and Deron? fans can have it both ways I suppose.


Who protects the Rim for Knicks? I like the deal we got exporting Felton and Tyson but we'll miss FluTy more than we imagine.
His extraction might make people happy but nobody is filling in the need.


Knicks? I dunno, I think they will compete for the 8th spot so a 10th prediction is not crazy.

Triangulization........Problem is a slow start might derail the playoff reality early. Stick to plan will require patience. Is the plan to get in teh lottery next season?

I expect Phil to be around training camp a lot and ease Fish into the role. Make no bones about it, it will be Fish's team. Its a transition year and an opportunity to lay the first base of the new culture.
On paper the team looks like a 37 win team. More important to Nalod is how we finish the season, not so much how we start.

Im excited to see how we use our players and settle into roles. Bargs in particular. Melo's numbers falling would be a good sign if he is more active in other areas

We will miss the Tyson from the 54 win team, not last year... I agree with that for sure. Just like we are hoping for the JR from that same team. Smith and Dalembert are here to protect the rim. What their impact will be we will see. Im sure Fisher has a plan and has bounced 40,000 ideas off Phil (a pretty solid sounding board).


We won somthing like 13 straight in april during those 54 wins with kmart/copeland/melo as our center, no amare, no tyson.

What centers in the east should we be afraid of..I'm sorry, what centers in the league should we be afraid of

ES
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ESPN picks Knicks to finish 37-45 and #10 in the east
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