TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:One thing is for certain, Phil likes guys good character guys, high motors with good basketball fundamentals.

Jason Smith, Cleanthony Early, Quincy Acy, Travis Outlaw, Shane Larkin, and Thanasis....

All these guys are very similar in that they all can shoot, drive and finish well. They all are selfless team oriented players. They all bring their own energy and are hard workers.

This is the start of the culture change Phil is trying to instill. None of the names are household names, but collectively they should ignite a fire in practice and in games that should rub off on the other players.

I think Phil is still trying to make a trade to add to this formula before the season starts.

I'm utterly amused by Knicks fans who fully believe that Phil Jackson is waving some kind of magic wand, some kind of deep Harry Potter type magic, hoping Jackson will impart some magical basketball wisdom on the Knicks after he dumps the One Ring into the fiery pit of Mordor and Mount Doom.

How hard was Jackson's job this offseason?

He had zero cap space. He had no draft picks. He had almost no viable trade assets. He had no emerging hot young player on a rookie contract who was vastly outperforming said contract as a viable trade chip or future asset.

He traded the one possible trade asset he had ( Tyson Chandler, a rim protecting center, in a league where 7 footers who can defend always have value) into a bunch of smaller lottery tickets.

He told his one elite free agent that he could take less and help build the team or go out into free agency and take a massive pay cut to play for a contender. Or he could wait, take close to max money, not have to uproot his family and see what happens.

He refused to mortgage future assets ( picks), where their general valuation is rising, for short term gains.

Dolan paid 50-60 million for a job that someone could have done for under a million a year to do.

Sam Presti
Daryl Morey
Rob Hennigan
Sam Hinkie
Masai Ujiri
Rick Cho
Bob Myers
Ryan McDonough

Over the years, there was LOTS of good available front office talent available to the Knicks. All those guys at some point would not have cost 60 million to bring aboard and make good front office decisions. Only Dolan would pay out the nose for what other teams are paying peanuts for, for basically following league trends.

Phil Jackson is not waving a magic wand, he's just following league trends. Better analytics, better coaching, better ways to use film and the D League and stronger push into access into international markets and leagues and players have made it much more desirable to reach out for the more efficient generic name player than the formerly "name brand" low cost asset.

In the past, teams would have been racing to grab a Rashard Lewis or Juwan Howard or Jerry Stackhouse to fill out their bench. Now teams, esp struggling teams, see the massive value in having open roster space to give players who are being mined by better analytics an opportunity to shine.

It's not just the Knicks and Phil Jackson, it's all progressive teams.

Look at Danny Ferry in Atlanta. Dumped that huge and horrible Joe Johnson contract. Didn't overpay for Josh Smith. Got Millsap for peanuts. Got Bazemore for almost nothing. Has slow but steadily built up a pretty good team with flexibility.

All progressive teams with good front offices like good character guys who push hard and have strong fundamental play and are team oriented.

Phil Jackson isn't waving a magic wand. James Dolan paid 50-60 million simply to get a guy with enough swag to gut check his own ego. That's not a genius decision. The list of GM's above, most of them had been trained and groomed to be GMs in the NBA.

I think Jackson is moving the Knicks in a good direction, but I think a big handful of other league executives could have done the same thing. I bet there are a dozen assistant GMs in the league who could have done the exact same thing.

If Melo needs to see 11 ring swag to stay in New York, so he can keep mugging for his reality show, that doesn't make Phil Jackson smart, that makes Carmelo Anthony to be pretty stupid. Then again Melo was always kind of stupid, it takes real stupid to think he could have constructed a Big Three with Chris Paul with Landry Fields as a headliner trade piece and no cap space and other assets after he choked out the teams cupboard to make sure he got a max deal before the new CBA went into effect.

Phil Jackson isn't the messiah. He's just smarter than James Dolan and Melo. But how hard is that? However he's not some secret braintrust above and beyond a lot of good front office talent out there.

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:One thing is for certain, Phil likes guys good character guys, high motors with good basketball fundamentals.

Jason Smith, Cleanthony Early, Quincy Acy, Travis Outlaw, Shane Larkin, and Thanasis....

All these guys are very similar in that they all can shoot, drive and finish well. They all are selfless team oriented players. They all bring their own energy and are hard workers.

This is the start of the culture change Phil is trying to instill. None of the names are household names, but collectively they should ignite a fire in practice and in games that should rub off on the other players.

I think Phil is still trying to make a trade to add to this formula before the season starts.

I'm utterly amused by Knicks fans who fully believe that Phil Jackson is waving some kind of magic wand, some kind of deep Harry Potter type magic, hoping Jackson will impart some magical basketball wisdom on the Knicks after he dumps the One Ring into the fiery pit of Mordor and Mount Doom.

How hard was Jackson's job this offseason?

He had zero cap space. He had no draft picks. He had almost no viable trade assets. He had no emerging hot young player on a rookie contract who was vastly outperforming said contract as a viable trade chip or future asset.

He traded the one possible trade asset he had ( Tyson Chandler, a rim protecting center, in a league where 7 footers who can defend always have value) into a bunch of smaller lottery tickets.

He told his one elite free agent that he could take less and help build the team or go out into free agency and take a massive pay cut to play for a contender. Or he could wait, take close to max money, not have to uproot his family and see what happens.

He refused to mortgage future assets ( picks), where their general valuation is rising, for short term gains.

Dolan paid 50-60 million for a job that someone could have done for under a million a year to do.

Sam Presti
Daryl Morey
Rob Hennigan
Sam Hinkie
Masai Ujiri
Rick Cho
Bob Myers
Ryan McDonough

Over the years, there was LOTS of good available front office talent available to the Knicks. All those guys at some point would not have cost 60 million to bring aboard and make good front office decisions. Only Dolan would pay out the nose for what other teams are paying peanuts for, for basically following league trends.

Phil Jackson is not waving a magic wand, he's just following league trends. Better analytics, better coaching, better ways to use film and the D League and stronger push into access into international markets and leagues and players have made it much more desirable to reach out for the more efficient generic name player than the formerly "name brand" low cost asset.

In the past, teams would have been racing to grab a Rashard Lewis or Juwan Howard or Jerry Stackhouse to fill out their bench. Now teams, esp struggling teams, see the massive value in having open roster space to give players who are being mined by better analytics an opportunity to shine.

It's not just the Knicks and Phil Jackson, it's all progressive teams.

Look at Danny Ferry in Atlanta. Dumped that huge and horrible Joe Johnson contract. Didn't overpay for Josh Smith. Got Millsap for peanuts. Got Bazemore for almost nothing. Has slow but steadily built up a pretty good team with flexibility.

All progressive teams with good front offices like good character guys who push hard and have strong fundamental play and are team oriented.

Phil Jackson isn't waving a magic wand. James Dolan paid 50-60 million simply to get a guy with enough swag to gut check his own ego. That's not a genius decision. The list of GM's above, most of them had been trained and groomed to be GMs in the NBA.

I think Jackson is moving the Knicks in a good direction, but I think a big handful of other league executives could have done the same thing. I bet there are a dozen assistant GMs in the league who could have done the exact same thing.

If Melo needs to see 11 ring swag to stay in New York, so he can keep mugging for his reality show, that doesn't make Phil Jackson smart, that makes Carmelo Anthony to be pretty stupid. Then again Melo was always kind of stupid, it takes real stupid to think he could have constructed a Big Three with Chris Paul with Landry Fields as a headliner trade piece and no cap space and other assets after he choked out the teams cupboard to make sure he got a max deal before the new CBA went into effect.

Phil Jackson isn't the messiah. He's just smarter than James Dolan and Melo. But how hard is that? However he's not some secret braintrust above and beyond a lot of good front office talent out there.

The op talks about the 'start of a new culture' and you come down hard and start talking about Phil and his magic wand. Is anyone talking about championships? Pretty sure what I read was that Phil likes guys with character, high motors and basketball fundamentals. The change has been refreshing. To suggest that posters here are naïve to the Knicks circumstances is insulting. Guys here know their stuff.

Now tell me which of these guys...
Sam Presti
Daryl Morey
Rob Hennigan
Sam Hinkie
Masai Ujiri
Rick Cho
Bob Myers
Ryan McDonough

...is getting Dolan to tie his hands behind his back and walk away from any control over the Knicks? Which of those guys is coming in here for a couple million and is getting full basketball autonomy? Havent we seen the problem is Dolan? Now Phil's moves with the Knicks have not been earth shaking, but they have certainly been a breath of fresh air. That being said Phil's REAL accomplishment, his 100% Harry Potter move has been to abra-cadabra Dolan out of the picture so good basketball people can do their jobs.

Not hard to see I would think.

An effective offense, to my way of thinking, features the following dimensions.
1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.
2. Spacing. I am a fanatic about how players distribute themselves on the offensive end of the court. They must space themselves in a way that makes it most difficult to defend, trap, and help. Players must align a certain number of feet apart. In high school, I’d recommend 12 to 15 feet spacing, in college, 15 to18 feet, and in the NBA, 15 to 20 feet. Proper spacing not only exposes individual defensive players’ vulnerabilities, but also ensures that every time the defense tries to trap, an offensive player will be open.
3. Ball and player movements. Players must move, and must move the ball, with a purpose. Effective off-the-ball activity is much more important than most fans and players think because they’re so used to watching only the movement of the ball and the player in possession of it. But there is only one ball and there are five players, meaning most players will have the ball in their hands 20 percent or less of the time the team is in possession of the ball.
4. Options for the ball handler. The more options a smart player has to attack a defender, the more successful that offensive player will be. When teammates are all moving to positions to free themselves (or another teammate with a pick), the ball handler’s choices are vastly increased.
5. Offensive rebounding and defensive balance. On all shots we take, players must go strong for the rebound while retaining court balance and awareness to prevent the opponent’s fast break.
6. Versatile positioning. The offense must offer to any player the chance to fill any spot on the court, independent of the player’s role. All positions should be interchangeable.
7. Use individual talents. It only makes sense for an offense to allow a team to take advantage of the skill sets of its best players. This doesn’t preclude the focus on team play that is emphasized in the six other principles, but it does acknowledge that some individuals have certain types and degrees of talent, and an offense should accentuate those assets. Michael Jordan taught me this.
Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.
The triangle offense has proven most effective, even against such obstacles, when players commit to and execute the system. The offense hinges on players attending to minute details in executing not just plays but also the fundamentals underlying the plays. Once players have mastered the individual techniques required of their roles, we then integrate those individuals into a team. Once this is done, the foundation for a good offense is solidly in place. The team can then go on the court with the confidence and poise so essential to success.
This method of play is as old as basketball. The triangle set is adjustable to the personnel, but such adaptations can be made without altering the essence of the offense. The only necessary adjustment from one season to the next involves tailoring the series of options based on each individual’s talents.

Now this is all stuff we've heard before in pieces, but Phil has a clear and coherent blue print and he is building this team according to these principles. You can see it in the players he's brought in already. The other part of the game is the mental part of the game and Phil has a way of effecting that too. He's already been getting into Melo's head. The more time they spend together the more he'll be in the back of Melo's mind in everything he does on the court. Fish will also be parroting the same points that Phil is saying:

“I believe in system basketball. … I came out of a system here which we ran in New York in which team ball was an important aspect of playing and we believe that’s what we want to get accomplished as we go forward from here.

“There’s no doubt Carmelo (Anthony) is one of the top scorers in the league, maybe the best individual isolation player in the game. I have no problem committing to saying Carmelo is in the future plans. There are a number of things I see Carmelo doing as he moves forward, I think I was on record as saying a year ago that Carmelo, as great a player as he is, still has another level he can go to. Together, with the team we create, he can get there.”

“Carmelo has had a load to carry this year, obviously, a scoring load,” Jackson said. “He’s remarkable in that. He showed in the last Olympics, coming off the bench, playing a role as a bench player on a magnificent team that won a gold medal, that he can play a role if he has to play a role. I think he is a basketball player and I think that’s what players want to do. They want to be able to cut, to pass, to get in different spots on the floor to play or attack. I think Carmelo will be just fine. I see no problem in it.”

EnySpree wrote:One thing is for certain, Phil likes guys good character guys, high motors with good basketball fundamentals.

Jason Smith, Cleanthony Early, Quincy Acy, Travis Outlaw, Shane Larkin, and Thanasis....

All these guys are very similar in that they all can shoot, drive and finish well. They all are selfless team oriented players. They all bring their own energy and are hard workers.

This is the start of the culture change Phil is trying to instill. None of the names are household names, but collectively they should ignite a fire in practice and in games that should rub off on the other players.

I think Phil is still trying to make a trade to add to this formula before the season starts.

One of these players does not belong!

Though to be fair, I was reading up on him and back at his peak with the Blazer, Outlaw was clutch and one of the leaders in fourth quarter scoring.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:One thing is for certain, Phil likes guys good character guys, high motors with good basketball fundamentals.

Jason Smith, Cleanthony Early, Quincy Acy, Travis Outlaw, Shane Larkin, and Thanasis....

All these guys are very similar in that they all can shoot, drive and finish well. They all are selfless team oriented players. They all bring their own energy and are hard workers.

This is the start of the culture change Phil is trying to instill. None of the names are household names, but collectively they should ignite a fire in practice and in games that should rub off on the other players.

I think Phil is still trying to make a trade to add to this formula before the season starts.

One of these players does not belong!

Though to be fair, I was reading up on him and back at his peak with the Blazer, Outlaw was clutch and one of the leaders in fourth quarter scoring.

I always liked him. I remember when he was drafted and snickered cause the jailblazers of the time drafted a dude named outlaw.

He was a sick sick athlete, one of the best jumpers ever. He's 29 in a contract year. I would expect max effort if nothing else.

Yeah, I used to like him too- I just don't get what happened to him- is it a confidence thing? did he lose his passion? did he never recover from the foot injury? Is it because he's been stuck on losing teams? No idea, but it's rare for a player to suck as long as he has and then magically rediscover their game even in a contract year.

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:One thing is for certain, Phil likes guys good character guys, high motors with good basketball fundamentals.

Jason Smith, Cleanthony Early, Quincy Acy, Travis Outlaw, Shane Larkin, and Thanasis....

All these guys are very similar in that they all can shoot, drive and finish well. They all are selfless team oriented players. They all bring their own energy and are hard workers.

This is the start of the culture change Phil is trying to instill. None of the names are household names, but collectively they should ignite a fire in practice and in games that should rub off on the other players.

I think Phil is still trying to make a trade to add to this formula before the season starts.

One of these players does not belong!

Though to be fair, I was reading up on him and back at his peak with the Blazer, Outlaw was clutch and one of the leaders in fourth quarter scoring.

I always liked him. I remember when he was drafted and snickered cause the jailblazers of the time drafted a dude named outlaw.

He was a sick sick athlete, one of the best jumpers ever. He's 29 in a contract year. I would expect max effort if nothing else.

Yeah, I used to like him too- I just don't get what happened to him- is it a confidence thing? did he lose his passion? did he never recover from the foot injury? Is it because he's been stuck on losing teams? No idea, but it's rare for a player to suck as long as he has and then magically rediscover their game even in a contract year.

Im not expecting much, but who knows... glad to read that snip about him being a pro, good attitude, etc

It's about culture and getting a class of player that can actually play the game and play in the triangle system. Amare, Smith, Shump and Bargs all have potention, but too many things have to go their way to be successful. The new guys don't need special treatment to fit into the system. That where I get the weak link comment from....Knicks can't rely on 4 rotation guys that need special treatment.

Anyway...I have no idea where half of these comments are coming from. Long drawn out bull****. You miserable bastards

EnySpree wrote:It's amazing how much negativity can come from a few comments that come from a poster with positive intentions.....I ate repeating things over and over.

It's about culture and getting a class of player that can actually play the game and play in the triangle system. Amare, Smith, Shump and Bargs all have potention, but too many things have to go their way to be successful. The new guys don't need special treatment to fit into the system. That where I get the weak link comment from....Knicks can't rely on 4 rotation guys that need special treatment.

Anyway...I have no idea where half of these comments are coming from. Long drawn out bull****. You miserable bastards

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's amazing how much negativity can come from a few comments that come from a poster with positive intentions.....I ate repeating things over and over.

It's about culture and getting a class of player that can actually play the game and play in the triangle system. Amare, Smith, Shump and Bargs all have potention, but too many things have to go their way to be successful. The new guys don't need special treatment to fit into the system. That where I get the weak link comment from....Knicks can't rely on 4 rotation guys that need special treatment.

Anyway...I have no idea where half of these comments are coming from. Long drawn out bull****. You miserable bastards

Like what?

Amare needs the ball. He need to be featured at all times to be effective. He's not a guy that can facilitate or be asked to make passes to cutters. In a pick and roll offense he's the man. He still can't rebound or defend.

Jr Smith needs to be focused. That's it. That in itself is up in the air. Has he read any good books? Did he get the new jordans? Did his latest conquest get the pipe?

Shump needs to be developed properly. He's not a star talent so it's beating a dead horse. He needs to be a shooting guard. Could he succeed? Yes and no. Download his my tape.

Bargs needs a redbull. His body language sucks. He's slow to react, but like Amare if you feature him he can be successful. Will you win? Probably not. He does have potential in fitting in the triangle but he can't defend or rebound.

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's amazing how much negativity can come from a few comments that come from a poster with positive intentions.....I ate repeating things over and over.

It's about culture and getting a class of player that can actually play the game and play in the triangle system. Amare, Smith, Shump and Bargs all have potention, but too many things have to go their way to be successful. The new guys don't need special treatment to fit into the system. That where I get the weak link comment from....Knicks can't rely on 4 rotation guys that need special treatment.

Anyway...I have no idea where half of these comments are coming from. Long drawn out bull****. You miserable bastards

Like what?

Amare needs the ball. He need to be featured at all times to be effective. He's not a guy that can facilitate or be asked to make passes to cutters. In a pick and roll offense he's the man. He still can't rebound or defend.

Jr Smith needs to be focused. That's it. That in itself is up in the air. Has he read any good books? Did he get the new jordans? Did his latest conquest get the pipe?

Shump needs to be developed properly. He's not a star talent so it's beating a dead horse. He needs to be a shooting guard. Could he succeed? Yes and no. Download his my tape.

Bargs needs a redbull. His body language sucks. He's slow to react, but like Amare if you feature him he can be successful. Will you win? Probably not. He does have potential in fitting in the triangle but he can't defend or rebound.

Jesus, I can finally agree with you on something

One more time and we get a free Sunday at dairy queen