dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

Bargs at the top of his game still sucks- that's just a fact! He doesn't do anything particularly well, and certainly not well enough to cancel out his negatives. At least Amar'e can score well and with a high FG%, Bargs can't even do that!

averaging 21pts per game in the nba doesn't mean you suck....regardless if you don't like the guy or think he can't play defense, or score about 50% from the field. At his best he averaged 21pts per game....its only one season, but in this thread I'm only talking about his best year....

You guys suck and you don't know how to play

the raptors went 22-60 the season bargnani averaged 21.4 points per game. what does that tell you about the importance of scoring 21 points a game in the nba?

some numbers to consider during "his best year" as you put it:

17.8 FGA @ 44.8% with 34.5% from 3
1.8 assists and 2.3 turnovers
5.2 rebounds
28.2 usage and 8.8 assist rate
53.3 TS%

as i have said several times now, he is a decent midrange shooter. if he sticks to that part of the floor and learns to pass the ****ing rock a bit to baseline cutters that'll be a plus. still won't make him a good and solid player. zero-sum is this guy's ceiling.

Who was the point guard when they went 22-60?

Was it T.J. Ford?, Was it John Lucas?, Was it Jarrett Jack?, Was it Mike James?

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

Bargs at the top of his game still sucks- that's just a fact! He doesn't do anything particularly well, and certainly not well enough to cancel out his negatives. At least Amar'e can score well and with a high FG%, Bargs can't even do that!

averaging 21pts per game in the nba doesn't mean you suck....regardless if you don't like the guy or think he can't play defense, or score about 50% from the field. At his best he averaged 21pts per game....its only one season, but in this thread I'm only talking about his best year....

You guys suck and you don't know how to play

the raptors went 22-60 the season bargnani averaged 21.4 points per game. what does that tell you about the importance of scoring 21 points a game in the nba?

some numbers to consider during "his best year" as you put it:

17.8 FGA @ 44.8% with 34.5% from 3
1.8 assists and 2.3 turnovers
5.2 rebounds
28.2 usage and 8.8 assist rate
53.3 TS%

as i have said several times now, he is a decent midrange shooter. if he sticks to that part of the floor and learns to pass the ****ing rock a bit to baseline cutters that'll be a plus. still won't make him a good and solid player. zero-sum is this guy's ceiling.

Who was the point guard when they went 22-60?

Was it T.J. Ford?, Was it John Lucas?, Was it Jarrett Jack?, Was it Mike James?

you don't wanna know but i will tell you this: he was a defensive sieve and he is 3 years older.

nixluva wrote:EnySpree, I feel your pain man.

Here's the thing. We saw a sample of what Amare can do even at this stage of his career at the end of last season.

DATE   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF   TO   PTS
March  28.4  7.1-12.4  .569  0.0-0.0   .000  2.7-3.4   .792  6.6  0.7  0.7  0.1  2.8  1.3  16.9
April  27.9  5.1-8.1   .632  0.0-0.0   .000  3.9-4.6   .844  5.3  0.9  1.0  0.3  2.3  1.0  14.1

Amar'e is very efficient and should be getting more shots than he had in April. Amar'e under 30 mpg and 12 or more shots a game is gonna be good for this team.

I do think that Bargs can get his mojo back this year. He's had a summer where he can work on his game and conditioning, unlike last year when he was seriously ill. Add to the fact that his game fits the Triangle and he'll have Jose here along with Prigs and Larkin who are all good and willing passers. This should help Bargs to get the ball in his best most efficient spots and to not get froze out like he did at times last year. Before Bargs got demoralized he started the year 16/6/1.3. Despite what people think Bargs is a very good man defender and he can block shots. IMO both players can help this team. My guess is that Phil knows how to get his bigs going based on his results in LA.

It will be most interesting to see how Fish decides to play defense this year. It will be very interesting to see how they coach defensive technique, spacing and proper defense of the PnR. Felton was so bad at it last year that even with Tyson we couldn't defend the PnR. Jose isn't a good athlete and will also be a liability on D. Still this is why the Knicks MUST be an EFFICIENT offensive team. It will be important that the Knicks develop a defensive scheme that is designed to close off penetration with good help D. I don't know what Woody was doing in practice with the Knicks but their approach to guarding PnR was very odd. Here is a scheme that the Knicks could use.

Nix: I know you don't agree, but as Bonn showed in his earlier post it's easy to see Bargs never had a "mojo" to begin with. Also, as I said before, even in those 20 PPG season he was below league average in TS% and eFG% which shows he uses volume shooting to score.

So Yes, he averaged 20 PPG in two of his pro seasons but by every other metric he was at most, an average offensive player, a bad rebounder for his position, and a horrible defender. He never has not is it likely he ever will be a important contributer to a NBA team. He's just not good and those are the facts, perfectly laid out by his career numbers.

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:
Long drawn out bunch of bull****.

amare sucks and i hate him, but in his prime he was a top 10 nba player. All I'm saying is if he was still capable of dropping 26pts a game without breaking down we'd be contenders. That's not bull****.

Bargs averaged 21pts per one year 17 and 19 points in two other seasons. Channing is incapable of doing that. All I'm saying if Bargs was as focused offensively as he was in his best years we'd be contenders.

I'm not talking about building around them. I'm talking about inserting these guys at their highest levels into the team we have now. That's all.

It's a hypothetical thread dag nabbit

You talked about "title contender"

Doesn't matter if you score 120 points a game if you give up 140 points a game. You need to play elite defense to win a NBA championship.

For that very reason, Golden State was utterly gun shy about the Kevin Love potential trade. Love is not a plus defender, along with Curry who is not a plus defender, they would be a great offensive team and a great long range shooting team, but they would suffer defensively.

The Lakers could score a ton this year, but with a rotation of Nick Young, Kobe, Nash, and Lin at the guards and Randle, Boozer, Hill and Sacre up front, that is really some ugly defense. When Ed Davis is your best big man defender and Jeremy Lin, by default, is likely your best team defender as a wing, you are looking at having to win shootouts each night.

In their primes, STAT and Bargnani could not defend the rim. Not even at a mediocre level. It's not rocket science, to be a "TITLE CONTENDER" you must be able to defend the rim.

Given how much of the cap that Bargs and STAT take up, the Knicks ARE ALREADY BUILT AROUND THEM.

Dropping points isn't the only metric to value big men in the NBA, honestly most real contenders are happy to have pivots who can contribute offensively just a little, to keep other teams honest defensively, but can play defense at an elite level.

Effective big men who make you a title contender do a lot of things that never show up in box scores.

Byron Mullens is 7 feet tall and can, if you leave him open, rack up 25 points a night from three point range. The guy can stuff a stat sheet in a hurry if you let him free to go bombs away. But he can't really get on the floor because he's a turnstile on defense. Ray Allen is one of the best shooters in league history, but only got minimum contract offers this off season. Why? Because he will give up defensively as much as he gives you in three pointers.

Amare Stoudamire in his prime does not make the Knicks title contenders. He makes them a higher Eastern Conference seed who would get bounced in the playoffs by another team who was stronger defensively. Replace them with any high scoring bigs who can't defend the rim and with low BB IQ and you still get the same result.

What's bull**** is you pushing the idea that just looking at PPG is the magical elixir to building a NBA contender.

I think you are totally over thinking this whole topic.....this is a hypothetical thread about 2 players if they were in their prime as compared to the lumps of doo doo they are now....

anyway....can I borrow $100, I'm broke

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

I don't know wtf some of these people smoke man, to think that we would still suck because "Amare has no bbiq". He was a ****ing beast in his prime, so much so that he made that fat **** Felton look like a legitimate point guard for half a season.

That game 1 vs Boston in the series he hurt his back, he ate Garnett's Lucky Charms. Too bad Melo couldn't keep up and Amare went downhill after that.

If he was still in his prime, and only would have gotten better, he would have shat on these pussies that people love to jack off to nowadays like Hibbert, Bosh, Aldridge and the rest of the new crop of forwards/big men.

EAT BIG FELLA...EATTT!

And oh, he had a sweet, automatic jumper too, btw, before he bulked up because of that stupid back and ****ed that up too.

Even after all of this, there were games I've seen where Amare, even after all he went through, feasted down low, but he wouldn't get touches. If he is on the floor, he needs to get more touches, period. He is still much more efficient at getting two points than his buddy, and Phisher needs to utilize him to the MAX for every second he is on the floor.

Amare down low, Bargnani free throw jumpers from Melo pick and pops (go watch a video of last years games and see how many easy baby jumpers he popped from Melo assists, it's mind boggling and makes you wonder how stupid Woodson was to not use it more, instead having this guy with ****ty elbows shooting flat three's, SMDH), Melo catch and shoot all day, and it should be a nice recipe for some good wins.

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You're talking about Amare returning to several years ago? Yeah, then this team would win 50 or so games but that's just fantasy. I thought you meant the current Amare simply staying healthy and not missing games.

Yes this thread was a "what if" scenario type of thread. I don't get the confusion.

Dagger wrote:Amare fanboys are too funny, you guys talk about this guy like he's still a star athlete, he hasn't been relevant for years. If you took a poll asking coaches around the nba who the top 10 PF's in the game are amare's name would not come up. What we can hope for is an efficient bench player that doesn't pass and plays horrendous defense, but can hopefully give us a bit of inside scoring and decent rebounding. Amare's nba days are numbered and his act is stale. We can talk about his glory days until the cows come home, but that's not the player we have had the past 3 seasons.

Dagger wrote:Amare fanboys are too funny, you guys talk about this guy like he's still a star athlete, he hasn't been relevant for years. If you took a poll asking coaches around the nba who the top 10 PF's in the game are amare's name would not come up. What we can hope for is an efficient bench player that doesn't pass and plays horrendous defense, but can hopefully give us a bit of inside scoring and decent rebounding. Amare's nba days are numbered and his act is stale. We can talk about his glory days until the cows come home, but that's not the player we have had the past 3 seasons.