knicks1248 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Doesn't make sense to pay a player peak salary premium knowing he's a first round exit waiting to happen

Thad almost makes 2/5 the salary of Melo

Very troubling seeing increase in his pay by 2/5 form what he made in Denver

Outbid everyone unnecessarily by 1/4 to retain him

While they aren't the same talent Thad has a solid career, he's no pushover.

Very efficient solid 2-way player

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

If playing with quality talent is of question can we name the great players who have accompanied him in his career

zero logic here. Zilch. By this logic adding Young would ensure we are in the lottery next few years? Because thats all Thad brings right?

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

3 years ago. And Thad was the 4th best player on that team.

I get that some dont like Melo and have their personal issues with him but talk about scaping the bottom of the barrel

It wasn't 3yrs ago and I like the cherry picking you're doing where players were pecked on their team.

Thad was a high rotation player and they beat the Bulls in 2011-2012[2yrs ago]

Shall we cherry pick Calderon?

Where did he rank on all the teams he's been on

Young has been in the league 7yrs he's been to the playoffs 4 of them

Quite possibly a good pairing with Melo to cover up some of his sinful play

Putting players together with or without playoff experience is vastly different factoring how they should be compensated.

Obviously if we're going by post-season success//// Knicks pursue no playoff losers to pair with Melo going forward and Cleveland will be failtastic Lebron playing with Kyrie and potentially Love

your right.. it was 2 seasons ago. So the last time Young was in the playoffs was 2 years ago, and he was the 7th leading scorer on his team in the playoffs, the 4th rebounder and shot 43% in 20 minutes. Can we please not use his playoff experience as any kind of logical barometer?

Not sure why you bring Calderon into this... He's usually his team's best shooter, leading assist guy, starting PG, and played for a 50 win team last year that took to the Spurs to 7 games. He played very well in that series also, and he makes what? $6m?? $7mm?? Calderon is a nice fit for his role here. If we brought in Calderon to be the 2nd scorer and play 40 minutes a game I wouldnt be happy about that. He's great for what we need.

Young is paid like a 4-5th option go look up what they make, $6-9mil/yr

Why look at only Young's PPG, ignoring the fact he's been 50%fg player for the majority of his career

He's not high usage, plays very solid defense and doesn't demand the ball

Last year he put up J.R. Smith 6th man numbers a player one time welcomed to be a cronie with Melo

Yeah Calderon had a good season last year with Dallas if you cherry pick that season

Before Dallas you could peg him as an efficient no playing defense guard who put up numbers on bad teams as a 4-6 option

I don't think Thad would come here to be a 2nd option.

I think he'd come here playing a "role" like Calderon at a different position

Your talking about a player putting up numbers on a team that had the 2nd or 3rd worst record in the league.

And Calderon was putting up numbers on horrible Raptor teams

How do you think the Raptors acquired Derozan-Ed Davis-Valanciuans-Terrence Ross

This feat was accomplished in back-to-back-to-back-to-back drafts//// all of them not first round picks but first round "lottery" picks

More careful observation finds Calderon leaves and Raptors make playoffs

Calderon has only seen the postseason 3x in his 9yrs in the league

Guess who else has the same ratio, big hint he's playing in Dallas

These are facts leading to cherry picking

If Dallas makes playoffs and push Spurs to another 7gm series or beats them//// will it be because they replaced Calderon with Felton?

I wouldn't buy such a sell ever, neither should you structure your arguments down pot hole road

;-(

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Doesn't make sense to pay a player peak salary premium knowing he's a first round exit waiting to happen

Thad almost makes 2/5 the salary of Melo

Very troubling seeing increase in his pay by 2/5 form what he made in Denver

Outbid everyone unnecessarily by 1/4 to retain him

While they aren't the same talent Thad has a solid career, he's no pushover.

Very efficient solid 2-way player

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

If playing with quality talent is of question can we name the great players who have accompanied him in his career

zero logic here. Zilch. By this logic adding Young would ensure we are in the lottery next few years? Because thats all Thad brings right?

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

3 years ago. And Thad was the 4th best player on that team.

I get that some dont like Melo and have their personal issues with him but talk about scaping the bottom of the barrel

It wasn't 3yrs ago and I like the cherry picking you're doing where players were pecked on their team.

Thad was a high rotation player and they beat the Bulls in 2011-2012[2yrs ago]

Shall we cherry pick Calderon?

Where did he rank on all the teams he's been on

Young has been in the league 7yrs he's been to the playoffs 4 of them

Quite possibly a good pairing with Melo to cover up some of his sinful play

Putting players together with or without playoff experience is vastly different factoring how they should be compensated.

Obviously if we're going by post-season success//// Knicks pursue no playoff losers to pair with Melo going forward and Cleveland will be failtastic Lebron playing with Kyrie and potentially Love

your right.. it was 2 seasons ago. So the last time Young was in the playoffs was 2 years ago, and he was the 7th leading scorer on his team in the playoffs, the 4th rebounder and shot 43% in 20 minutes. Can we please not use his playoff experience as any kind of logical barometer?

Not sure why you bring Calderon into this... He's usually his team's best shooter, leading assist guy, starting PG, and played for a 50 win team last year that took to the Spurs to 7 games. He played very well in that series also, and he makes what? $6m?? $7mm?? Calderon is a nice fit for his role here. If we brought in Calderon to be the 2nd scorer and play 40 minutes a game I wouldnt be happy about that. He's great for what we need.

Young is paid like a 4-5th option go look up what they make, $6-9mil/yr

Why look at only Young's PPG, ignoring the fact he's been 50%fg player for the majority of his career

He's not high usage, plays very solid defense and doesn't demand the ball

Last year he put up J.R. Smith 6th man numbers a player one time welcomed to be a cronie with Melo

Yeah Calderon had a good season last year with Dallas if you cherry pick that season

Before Dallas you could peg him as an efficient no playing defense guard who put up numbers on bad teams as a 4-6 option

I don't think Thad would come here to be a 2nd option.

I think he'd come here playing a "role" like Calderon at a different position

Your talking about a player putting up numbers on a team that had the 2nd or 3rd worst record in the league.

And Calderon was putting up numbers on horrible Raptor teams

How do you think the Raptors acquired Derozan-Ed Davis-Valanciuans-Terrence Ross

This feat was accomplished in back-to-back-to-back-to-back drafts//// all of them not first round picks but first round "lottery" picks

More careful observation finds Calderon leaves and Raptors make playoffs

Calderon has only seen the postseason 3x in his 9yrs in the league

Guess who else has the same ratio, big hint he's playing in Dallas

These are facts leading to cherry picking

If Dallas makes playoffs and push Spurs to another 7gm series or beats them//// will it be because they replaced Calderon with Felton?

I wouldn't buy such a sell ever, neither should you structure your arguments down pot hole road

your is not making any sense. Your argument is if Im OK with Calderon I should be OK with Young?

Also it was ditching Rudy Gay that propelled the Raps.. go look at the #s or chat someone that follows that team.

Calderon was a key piece because our two biggest needs were an upgrade at PG and some consistent outside shooting. Those were the two things above all else that killed us last year.

As are Smith and Mr. Clean who play the 3/4 positions Thad could play.

Raptors started improving the day they started transitioning from the old Rap regime, which started with Calderon

Since Gay and Calderon were directly traded for each other, you almost have to start there.

Overall they were closer to .500 with Gay all games played///// well below .500 seasonally before trade

2008-2009 won 33gms
2009-2010 won 40gms
2010-2011 won 22gms
2011-2012 won 23gms

2012-2013 won 34 gms[year of Calderon-Gay trade Raps were 15-30 prior to]
2013-2014 won 48 gms[Gay traded Raps were 7-12 prior to]

They were 26-30 with Gay.

Maybe you like the ole win 54gms to win 37gms but that's not progress

The Barg and Gay trades were bigger stepping stones, yes I think we're all aware of this not forgetting hiring Masai.

When you start changing with an overall culture, there's the first move which starts it all

I would say Phil trading Tyson and Felton is the first sign of our culture change.

Are there bigger moves to be made, I'd like to think so

This would be similar to saying 2015 turned things around for us and not recognizing any move Phil made prior to.

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Doesn't make sense to pay a player peak salary premium knowing he's a first round exit waiting to happen

Thad almost makes 2/5 the salary of Melo

Very troubling seeing increase in his pay by 2/5 form what he made in Denver

Outbid everyone unnecessarily by 1/4 to retain him

While they aren't the same talent Thad has a solid career, he's no pushover.

Very efficient solid 2-way player

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

If playing with quality talent is of question can we name the great players who have accompanied him in his career

zero logic here. Zilch. By this logic adding Young would ensure we are in the lottery next few years? Because thats all Thad brings right?

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

3 years ago. And Thad was the 4th best player on that team.

I get that some dont like Melo and have their personal issues with him but talk about scaping the bottom of the barrel

It wasn't 3yrs ago and I like the cherry picking you're doing where players were pecked on their team.

Thad was a high rotation player and they beat the Bulls in 2011-2012[2yrs ago]

Shall we cherry pick Calderon?

Where did he rank on all the teams he's been on

Young has been in the league 7yrs he's been to the playoffs 4 of them

Quite possibly a good pairing with Melo to cover up some of his sinful play

Putting players together with or without playoff experience is vastly different factoring how they should be compensated.

Obviously if we're going by post-season success//// Knicks pursue no playoff losers to pair with Melo going forward and Cleveland will be failtastic Lebron playing with Kyrie and potentially Love

your right.. it was 2 seasons ago. So the last time Young was in the playoffs was 2 years ago, and he was the 7th leading scorer on his team in the playoffs, the 4th rebounder and shot 43% in 20 minutes. Can we please not use his playoff experience as any kind of logical barometer?

Not sure why you bring Calderon into this... He's usually his team's best shooter, leading assist guy, starting PG, and played for a 50 win team last year that took to the Spurs to 7 games. He played very well in that series also, and he makes what? $6m?? $7mm?? Calderon is a nice fit for his role here. If we brought in Calderon to be the 2nd scorer and play 40 minutes a game I wouldnt be happy about that. He's great for what we need.

Young is paid like a 4-5th option go look up what they make, $6-9mil/yr

Why look at only Young's PPG, ignoring the fact he's been 50%fg player for the majority of his career

He's not high usage, plays very solid defense and doesn't demand the ball

Last year he put up J.R. Smith 6th man numbers a player one time welcomed to be a cronie with Melo

Yeah Calderon had a good season last year with Dallas if you cherry pick that season

Before Dallas you could peg him as an efficient no playing defense guard who put up numbers on bad teams as a 4-6 option

I don't think Thad would come here to be a 2nd option.

I think he'd come here playing a "role" like Calderon at a different position

Your talking about a player putting up numbers on a team that had the 2nd or 3rd worst record in the league.

And Calderon was putting up numbers on horrible Raptor teams

How do you think the Raptors acquired Derozan-Ed Davis-Valanciuans-Terrence Ross

This feat was accomplished in back-to-back-to-back-to-back drafts//// all of them not first round picks but first round "lottery" picks

More careful observation finds Calderon leaves and Raptors make playoffs

Calderon has only seen the postseason 3x in his 9yrs in the league

Guess who else has the same ratio, big hint he's playing in Dallas

These are facts leading to cherry picking

If Dallas makes playoffs and push Spurs to another 7gm series or beats them//// will it be because they replaced Calderon with Felton?

I wouldn't buy such a sell ever, neither should you structure your arguments down pot hole road

your is not making any sense. Your argument is if Im OK with Calderon I should be OK with Young?

Also it was ditching Rudy Gay that propelled the Raps.. go look at the #s or chat someone that follows that team.

Calderon was a key piece because our two biggest needs were an upgrade at PG and some consistent outside shooting. Those were the two things above all else that killed us last year.

As are Smith and Mr. Clean who play the 3/4 positions Thad could play.

Raptors started improving the day they started transitioning from the old Rap regime, which started with Calderon

Since Gay and Calderon were directly traded for each other, you almost have to start there.

Overall they were closer to .500 with Gay all games played///// well below .500 seasonally before trade

2008-2009 won 33gms
2009-2010 won 40gms
2010-2011 won 22gms
2011-2012 won 23gms

2012-2013 won 34 gms[year of Calderon-Gay trade Raps were 15-30 prior to]
2013-2014 won 48 gms[Gay traded Raps were 7-12 prior to]

They were 26-30 with Gay.

Maybe you like the ole win 54gms to win 37gms but that's not progress

The Barg and Gay trades were bigger stepping stones, yes I think we're all aware of this not forgetting hiring Masai.

When you start changing with an overall culture, there's the first move which starts it all

I would say Phil trading Tyson and Felton is the first sign of our culture change.

Are there bigger moves to be made, I'd like to think so

This would be similar to saying 2015 turned things around for us and not recognizing any move Phil made prior to.

I have no clue what your talking about... we were talking about Thaddeus Young being a good fit for the Knicks. My thought was at $10mm he's a terrible fit. Now your talking about the Raptors record for the last 6 years and Jose Calderon. Sorry you have totally lost//////// me

Thad makes $9mil this year and almost $10 next year he's only 26.

Thad could play the 3 or 4 depending on lineups much the same Clean and Smith will shore those positions up

Calderon makes $7mil and almost tops out at $8mil///// more on his deal and he's 33.

I think Calderon is a terrible fit at $8mil when facing D-Rose-WestBrook-Curry-CP3-Teague-Lillard-Lowry-Lawson-Dragic-Bledsoe-Kyrie-Kemba-Rondo

We'll see if his offensive direction-command offsets the above concerns.

He hasn't won much in his NBA career that's for sure

Argueing we should trade assets for Young because he's just as valuable as Jose, based on teams he was on years ago, when there is no need makes zero sense. Sorry mate... if you love Young and wish he was here more power to you... will have to agree to disagree on that one.

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Doesn't make sense to pay a player peak salary premium knowing he's a first round exit waiting to happen

Thad almost makes 2/5 the salary of Melo

Very troubling seeing increase in his pay by 2/5 form what he made in Denver

Outbid everyone unnecessarily by 1/4 to retain him

While they aren't the same talent Thad has a solid career, he's no pushover.

Very efficient solid 2-way player

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

If playing with quality talent is of question can we name the great players who have accompanied him in his career

zero logic here. Zilch. By this logic adding Young would ensure we are in the lottery next few years? Because thats all Thad brings right?

Philly produced playoffs getting to the second round with him as a major rotation player

3 years ago. And Thad was the 4th best player on that team.

I get that some dont like Melo and have their personal issues with him but talk about scaping the bottom of the barrel

It wasn't 3yrs ago and I like the cherry picking you're doing where players were pecked on their team.

Thad was a high rotation player and they beat the Bulls in 2011-2012[2yrs ago]

Shall we cherry pick Calderon?

Where did he rank on all the teams he's been on

Young has been in the league 7yrs he's been to the playoffs 4 of them

Quite possibly a good pairing with Melo to cover up some of his sinful play

Putting players together with or without playoff experience is vastly different factoring how they should be compensated.

Obviously if we're going by post-season success//// Knicks pursue no playoff losers to pair with Melo going forward and Cleveland will be failtastic Lebron playing with Kyrie and potentially Love

your right.. it was 2 seasons ago. So the last time Young was in the playoffs was 2 years ago, and he was the 7th leading scorer on his team in the playoffs, the 4th rebounder and shot 43% in 20 minutes. Can we please not use his playoff experience as any kind of logical barometer?

Not sure why you bring Calderon into this... He's usually his team's best shooter, leading assist guy, starting PG, and played for a 50 win team last year that took to the Spurs to 7 games. He played very well in that series also, and he makes what? $6m?? $7mm?? Calderon is a nice fit for his role here. If we brought in Calderon to be the 2nd scorer and play 40 minutes a game I wouldnt be happy about that. He's great for what we need.

Young is paid like a 4-5th option go look up what they make, $6-9mil/yr

Why look at only Young's PPG, ignoring the fact he's been 50%fg player for the majority of his career

He's not high usage, plays very solid defense and doesn't demand the ball

Last year he put up J.R. Smith 6th man numbers a player one time welcomed to be a cronie with Melo

Yeah Calderon had a good season last year with Dallas if you cherry pick that season

Before Dallas you could peg him as an efficient no playing defense guard who put up numbers on bad teams as a 4-6 option

I don't think Thad would come here to be a 2nd option.

I think he'd come here playing a "role" like Calderon at a different position

Your talking about a player putting up numbers on a team that had the 2nd or 3rd worst record in the league.

And Calderon was putting up numbers on horrible Raptor teams

How do you think the Raptors acquired Derozan-Ed Davis-Valanciuans-Terrence Ross

This feat was accomplished in back-to-back-to-back-to-back drafts//// all of them not first round picks but first round "lottery" picks

More careful observation finds Calderon leaves and Raptors make playoffs

Calderon has only seen the postseason 3x in his 9yrs in the league

Guess who else has the same ratio, big hint he's playing in Dallas

These are facts leading to cherry picking

If Dallas makes playoffs and push Spurs to another 7gm series or beats them//// will it be because they replaced Calderon with Felton?

I wouldn't buy such a sell ever, neither should you structure your arguments down pot hole road

your is not making any sense. Your argument is if Im OK with Calderon I should be OK with Young?

Also it was ditching Rudy Gay that propelled the Raps.. go look at the #s or chat someone that follows that team.

Calderon was a key piece because our two biggest needs were an upgrade at PG and some consistent outside shooting. Those were the two things above all else that killed us last year.

As are Smith and Mr. Clean who play the 3/4 positions Thad could play.

Raptors started improving the day they started transitioning from the old Rap regime, which started with Calderon

Since Gay and Calderon were directly traded for each other, you almost have to start there.

Overall they were closer to .500 with Gay all games played///// well below .500 seasonally before trade

2008-2009 won 33gms
2009-2010 won 40gms
2010-2011 won 22gms
2011-2012 won 23gms

2012-2013 won 34 gms[year of Calderon-Gay trade Raps were 15-30 prior to]
2013-2014 won 48 gms[Gay traded Raps were 7-12 prior to]

They were 26-30 with Gay.

Maybe you like the ole win 54gms to win 37gms but that's not progress

The Barg and Gay trades were bigger stepping stones, yes I think we're all aware of this not forgetting hiring Masai.

When you start changing with an overall culture, there's the first move which starts it all

I would say Phil trading Tyson and Felton is the first sign of our culture change.

Are there bigger moves to be made, I'd like to think so

This would be similar to saying 2015 turned things around for us and not recognizing any move Phil made prior to.

I have no clue what your talking about... we were talking about Thaddeus Young being a good fit for the Knicks. My thought was at $10mm he's a terrible fit. Now your talking about the Raptors record for the last 6 years and Jose Calderon. Sorry you have totally lost//////// me

Thad makes $9mil this year and almost $10 next year he's only 26.

Thad could play the 3 or 4 depending on lineups much the same Clean and Smith will shore those positions up

Calderon makes $7mil and almost tops out at $8mil///// more on his deal and he's 33.

I think Calderon is a terrible fit at $8mil when facing D-Rose-WestBrook-Curry-CP3-Teague-Lillard-Lowry-Lawson-Dragic-Bledsoe-Kyrie-Kemba-Rondo

We'll see if his offensive direction-command offsets the above concerns.

He hasn't won much in his NBA career that's for sure

hey.. if you cant look at the Knicks roster and see PG was a huge need and the 3/4 simply wasnt I dont know what to tell you. Young is a low impact player. When he's on the floor nobody is making sure Thaddeus Young doesnt beat you. Calderon? Well you have to respect his shooting dont you? When Calderon is on the floor you cant sag off him, he creates spacing, he's a floor general and has one of the best shotting %s in the league. This in an offense that emphasizes a guy's jumper.

Argueing we should trade assets for Young because he's just as valuable as Jose, based on teams he was on years ago, when there is no need makes zero sense. Sorry mate... if you love Young and wish he was here more power to you... will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I never denied we didn't need a point guard upgrade

What you fail to acknowledge Phil drafted 2 3s and signed a 4.

Guess what, we obviously needed 3/4 help too!

It's not about a player having to be respected offensively because of an elite skill

What elite skill do Jason Smith and Cleanthony-Thannis provide?

None at all, what they provide is potential and depth//// they provide things other players may not be able to.

Thad would have done similar in a theoretical acquisition.

He's a player I could reason why acquired, heck I understand why Calderon is here and have acknowledged on several occasions

He comes with risks too///// like lack of defense, age, and length of deal.