Knicksfan wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:Phil is doing this just not for the money. I truly believe he wants to rebuild the Knicks for Red Holzman.

From his book--" What matters now is waking up every morning and getting a chance to do something I’ve always dreamed of: re-awakening the team that Red Holzman built, the team that changed my life forever."

I love Phil whenever I hear him speak.

Amazing quote! Phil is on a mission and it will be wonderful when he accomplishes it.

here is another phil quote, and it came from his book..

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/in-an-autobiography-update--phil-jackson-talks-up-flirtations-with-seattle--and-recruiting-dwight-howard-193401952.html;_ylt=A0LEVzyr7slT92gAxVxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzaTFyNW5iBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQ2OF8x?.tsrc=lgw

The prospect that captured my imagination didn’t involve any coaching. In December 2011 my son Charley introduced me to Chris Hansen, a successful hedge fund manager who had put together a group of investors who were trying to bring an NBA team back to Seattle. Hansen’s plan was to buy a majority share of the struggling Sacramento Kings franchise, then persuade the NBA to let him move it to the former home of the Sonics.
What I liked about Chris was his innovative thinking about sports and community. He wanted me to help him create a new kind of sports culture, focusing on the team itself rather than individual superstars. His goal was to make the fans feel as if they, too, were part of the family. One of Chris’s ideas, inspired by the Seattle Sounders soccer team, was to hold large pep rallies before each game to get the fans juiced up as they made their way to the arena. Another idea was to create a low-priced standing room section behind the baskets, complete with beat boards to rev up the noise level. Chris even wanted to remove the players’ names from their jerseys to shift attention away from individual players. I told him the marketing department of the NBA might have a problem with that one.

also from the article:

What’s interesting to note is that Jackson claims his role with a Seattle franchise would not have him working as “the hands-on general manager,” as he kept the flame for a franchise that doesn’t actually exist. This begs the question as to how similarly aligned that potential role is with his current gig as Knicks president, and if technical Knicks GM Steve Mills is the one working over cap figures and negotiating with players.

All of this for me, just calls into question, who offered the 5 contracts to carmelo? was that Phil, or was that the workings of Steve mills..

I honestly deep down feel that phil has his Fill of guys like kobe and carmelo, I can understand him dealing with a prime kobe because he was a top 3 player in the league, but at this point in his career, why deal with a lesser talented but equally egotistical player.. especially when his interest in the seattle deal as he quotes was builing a team culture instead of a superstar culture..

tkf wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

tkf wrote:There have been a number of posters including myself who have stressed the importance of having a solid foundation and culture.

There have have been numerous GM's who also suscribes to this line of thinking as well, one of them being RC Buford, the GM of the spurs? is there any franchise in the NBA that is as team oriented as the spurs? and they have been doing it well for over a decade.. I am pretty sure Buford doesn't have a 60 mil contract....

Donnie walsh changed the culture of the knicks and dolan asked him to take a pay cut...

Phil is a good dude tho... HOF fame coach for sure..

TKF, truthfully are you down on Phil cause he maxed Melo? Before you call me a Melo fanboy I'll just say that my view on Carmelo the basketball player aligns much more with those who have been down on his game. I was also against maxing him out and thought the best course of action was letting him walk and going for a high pick next year plus cap space in 2015 or signing and trading him.

All that being said, Phil throwing the max at him _must_ mean that he believes that implementing his "system", top to bottom, management through team running system basketball will force Carmelo into stepping up his game. Will that happen? Who knows. But Phil certainly staked his reputation on it. If Phil was against the move, I think he would have one foot out the door since I don't think Jackson would stay as Pres w/o the aforementioned "full autonomy" over basketball decisions. Dolan also has just as sordid a history giving WAY too much latitude/autonomy to inept GMs like Layden as he does with inserting himself and imposing horrible directives onto the so called "basketball people".

I thought Jackson was gently jettisoning Carmelo out the door but I guess I was zen mastered because it's not clear Jax is rolling the dice and will try to bring Carmelo to the "next level" as he did with Kobe, Jordan, et al. I think even you can admit that Carmelo's problems aren't due to lack of talent but a stubbornness I guess you can say and a style of play that he has been afforded the leniency to play his whole career which only gets you so far (iso ball, hero ball, volume scoring, inefficiency--whatever you want to call it). There's no reason Carmelo _couldnt_ throw up 5 or 6 assists a game and reduce his shot attempts. These are changes that only take a change in mindset to implement.

Anyway, as I said I have never been a huge fan of CArmelos game but I am a Knicks fan so I can only hope that Phil is right in his feeling that he can set up a system/team/organization that flourishes with Carmelo as the first major building block.

I am still on the Phil bandwagon. And I don't personally subscribe to the "well he's never been a President" train of thought simply cause Jackson has made it work And found great success wherever he goes and whatever he does in the NBA. I truly believe he is a smart guy with great instincts for the game.

Of course, if he proves to be horrible I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have no shame in admitting it. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

first of all show me where I said I am down, read all of my comments on Phil, they have been the same since day 1, before he made any moves..

All that being said, Phil throwing the max at him _must_ mean that he believes that implementing his "system", top to bottom, management through team running system basketball will force Carmelo into stepping up his game.

I don't believe that one bit.. there are still undefined roles in this front office? who is our GM? steve mills? I see him giving interviews as if he is one. I don't see a culture change with phil I mean for christ sakes, we haven't played a game yet.. and implementing the triangle offense is not changing a culture... before we anoint phil savior, lets look at these moves...

Lamar odom? why

And the culture of overpaying still persist.. We overpaid for dantoni, Phil overpays for fisher, we grossly overpay for carmelo, and we overpaid for Phil. It seems to be business as usual.

Heck I see a lot of similar moves to walsh. walsh got rid of jamal and zach, lateral moves to clear space and he brought back less salary..

Phil's first moves he gets rid of chandler and felton, I mean does the zen powers not work on those guys as well? yet we take on additional future salary.

I have nothing against Phil as a Coach.. one of the best ever.. but I am not going to automatically translate that to success as a GM or president before anything happens... so far we are talking culture change and a game has not been played yet..

All I am saying is we need to be careful when it comes to anointing Phil savior. We tend to do this with everyone that comes to NY..

shumpert will have a breakout season

bargnani will rediscover his game

Caremlo will change his game miraculously because of the triangle.. he never changed it for any other coach, but he will do so for fisher?

Beno and bargs will be a great pick and roll duo.

Our young players are just as talented as the other young players in the league.

I mean, it is one thing to be optimistic, but another thing to be realistic...

So I have no hate for phil.. I just have to treat him as any other rookie exec.. Phil has no experience at this and I am not going to give him extra points for being a great coach.....

Can't respond in depth at the moment but I'll say two things real quick (early morning supermarket run with the kids, pushing the cart down the aisle typing on the phone ain't fun lol):

I don't care about management overpays as they don't affect the cap.

Second, I am not optimistic nor realistic I simply hope that Phil does a good job, that Carmelo buys in, etc etc etc because I'm simply a fan and this is the situation we are in at the moment. Sure, I wished the organization was run how I deemed "best" but right now it's Phil and what he thinks is best so it's either root for another team or hope it pans out (whether that is realistic, optimistic, not likely, whatever).

no sir.

that characterization is in itself denigrating, and falls right into the category nalod was quoting.

if anything it's contempt with a soupcon of skepticism.

if jackson and fisher turn this contemptible organization around it will garner praise and converts. until then....

H1AND1 wrote:

tkf wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

tkf wrote:There have been a number of posters including myself who have stressed the importance of having a solid foundation and culture.

There have have been numerous GM's who also suscribes to this line of thinking as well, one of them being RC Buford, the GM of the spurs? is there any franchise in the NBA that is as team oriented as the spurs? and they have been doing it well for over a decade.. I am pretty sure Buford doesn't have a 60 mil contract....

Donnie walsh changed the culture of the knicks and dolan asked him to take a pay cut...

Phil is a good dude tho... HOF fame coach for sure..

TKF, truthfully are you down on Phil cause he maxed Melo? Before you call me a Melo fanboy I'll just say that my view on Carmelo the basketball player aligns much more with those who have been down on his game. I was also against maxing him out and thought the best course of action was letting him walk and going for a high pick next year plus cap space in 2015 or signing and trading him.

All that being said, Phil throwing the max at him _must_ mean that he believes that implementing his "system", top to bottom, management through team running system basketball will force Carmelo into stepping up his game. Will that happen? Who knows. But Phil certainly staked his reputation on it. If Phil was against the move, I think he would have one foot out the door since I don't think Jackson would stay as Pres w/o the aforementioned "full autonomy" over basketball decisions. Dolan also has just as sordid a history giving WAY too much latitude/autonomy to inept GMs like Layden as he does with inserting himself and imposing horrible directives onto the so called "basketball people".

I thought Jackson was gently jettisoning Carmelo out the door but I guess I was zen mastered because it's not clear Jax is rolling the dice and will try to bring Carmelo to the "next level" as he did with Kobe, Jordan, et al. I think even you can admit that Carmelo's problems aren't due to lack of talent but a stubbornness I guess you can say and a style of play that he has been afforded the leniency to play his whole career which only gets you so far (iso ball, hero ball, volume scoring, inefficiency--whatever you want to call it). There's no reason Carmelo _couldnt_ throw up 5 or 6 assists a game and reduce his shot attempts. These are changes that only take a change in mindset to implement.

Anyway, as I said I have never been a huge fan of CArmelos game but I am a Knicks fan so I can only hope that Phil is right in his feeling that he can set up a system/team/organization that flourishes with Carmelo as the first major building block.

I am still on the Phil bandwagon. And I don't personally subscribe to the "well he's never been a President" train of thought simply cause Jackson has made it work And found great success wherever he goes and whatever he does in the NBA. I truly believe he is a smart guy with great instincts for the game.

Of course, if he proves to be horrible I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have no shame in admitting it. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

first of all show me where I said I am down, read all of my comments on Phil, they have been the same since day 1, before he made any moves..

All that being said, Phil throwing the max at him _must_ mean that he believes that implementing his "system", top to bottom, management through team running system basketball will force Carmelo into stepping up his game.

I don't believe that one bit.. there are still undefined roles in this front office? who is our GM? steve mills? I see him giving interviews as if he is one. I don't see a culture change with phil I mean for christ sakes, we haven't played a game yet.. and implementing the triangle offense is not changing a culture... before we anoint phil savior, lets look at these moves...

Lamar odom? why

And the culture of overpaying still persist.. We overpaid for dantoni, Phil overpays for fisher, we grossly overpay for carmelo, and we overpaid for Phil. It seems to be business as usual.

Heck I see a lot of similar moves to walsh. walsh got rid of jamal and zach, lateral moves to clear space and he brought back less salary..

Phil's first moves he gets rid of chandler and felton, I mean does the zen powers not work on those guys as well? yet we take on additional future salary.

I have nothing against Phil as a Coach.. one of the best ever.. but I am not going to automatically translate that to success as a GM or president before anything happens... so far we are talking culture change and a game has not been played yet..

All I am saying is we need to be careful when it comes to anointing Phil savior. We tend to do this with everyone that comes to NY..

shumpert will have a breakout season

bargnani will rediscover his game

Caremlo will change his game miraculously because of the triangle.. he never changed it for any other coach, but he will do so for fisher?

Beno and bargs will be a great pick and roll duo.

Our young players are just as talented as the other young players in the league.

I mean, it is one thing to be optimistic, but another thing to be realistic...

So I have no hate for phil.. I just have to treat him as any other rookie exec.. Phil has no experience at this and I am not going to give him extra points for being a great coach.....

Can't respond in depth at the moment but I'll say two things real quick (early morning supermarket run with the kids, pushing the cart down the aisle typing on the phone ain't fun lol):

I don't care about management overpays as they don't affect the cap.

Second, I am not optimistic nor realistic I simply hope that Phil does a good job, that Carmelo buys in, etc etc etc because I'm simply a fan and this is the situation we are in at the moment. Sure, I wished the organization was run how I deemed "best" but right now it's Phil and what he thinks is best so it's either root for another team or hope it pans out (whether that is realistic, optimistic, not likely, whatever).

fair enough and I hope shopping was fun, I remember those days shopping with the kids.. LOL...