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Is Amare Obsolete?
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babyKnicks
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7/16/2014  5:51 PM
Luckily and unfortunately. Amare is obsolete, but so is every big on the roster.

It's a system now and whoever grasps it best stays.

Nothing to do with the player (my favorite by the way)

I'm confident that amare will be in full grasp of the triangle.

He already has a great jump shot from the 12/15.

His defense is much more improved than previous years (age necessitates it) and has a post game and sets strong picks and can roll.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
AUTOADVERT
IronWillGiroud
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7/16/2014  5:58 PM
Amare has been a bum for almost half a decade now

Next questions

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
nixluva
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7/16/2014  8:46 PM
I really can't understand the idea of dissing STAT at this point. If he's healthy he's efficient and I mean one of the TOP NBA ALL TIME efficient players. He's not really a problem. The closer he is to the basket in this system, the better he's gonna be. No one can stop him one on one. We don't have another post player who is more dominant inside. So really it's not about whether he's obsolete or not. He's just one part of the whole team in a TEAM concept. We're not doing the ISO thing anymore. If he's taught how to pass to cutters if they've got the advantage, or open shooters out of the post, that's really all he needs to learn to do. We know he can finish and score efficiently. So really in what way would he be a problem as long as he runs the offense the way Fish wants?
misterearl
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7/16/2014  9:59 PM
Nixluva - two words.

Dee-fense.

once a knick always a knick
Vmart
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7/16/2014  10:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2014  10:03 PM
As the year progressed Amare's defense got better and better. One can say that the lack of playing time and getting into the flow of the game prevented Amare from getting into a flow on defense.
Swishfm3
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7/16/2014  10:14 PM
babyKnicks wrote:Luckily and unfortunately. Amare is obsolete, but so is every big on the roster.

It's a system now and whoever grasps it best stays.

Nothing to do with the player (my favorite by the way)

I'm confident that amare will be in full grasp of the triangle.

He already has a great jump shot from the 12/15.

His defense is much more improved than previous years (age necessitates it) and has a post game and sets strong picks and can roll.

I believe Bargnani is going to excel in this system
WaltLongmire
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7/16/2014  10:33 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:Luckily and unfortunately. Amare is obsolete, but so is every big on the roster.

It's a system now and whoever grasps it best stays.

Nothing to do with the player (my favorite by the way)

I'm confident that amare will be in full grasp of the triangle.

He already has a great jump shot from the 12/15.

His defense is much more improved than previous years (age necessitates it) and has a post game and sets strong picks and can roll.

I believe Bargnani is going to excel in this system

Should do better than Amare in this kind of system, but who knows. Better passer, and hopefully Fisher keeps him from shooting 3s. Midrange jumper is pretty good. Also is a good fit with Calderon. Not sure about Amare as a ball movement kind of passer, but his midrange shot seemed to reemerge last year.

Bargs is a better 1/1 defender than Amare, but he just may be the worst help defender I've seen in years, and is not a ball hawk when going for rebounds. Amare is capable of helping out on D as far as blocks, and has some idea of how to rebound.

Hopefully things sort themselves out during training camp and pre-season.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
foosballnick
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7/16/2014  10:41 PM
dk7th wrote:he is not the best fit in the triangle sad to say. he's also dead man walking. i hope he asks for a trade and someone takes him. i don't like the way the knicks dicked him around, max or no max.

Just curious, how did the Knicks dick Amare around?
CrushAlot
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7/16/2014  11:49 PM
dk7th wrote:he is not the best fit in the triangle sad to say. he's also dead man walking. i hope he asks for a trade and someone takes him. i don't like the way the knicks dicked him around, max or no max.

I think the Knicks want to trade him. It is hard to find a team that can take on a guy making 23 mil. If that guy has a minutes restriction and needs to sit out every third or fourth game it is much harder.
On a side note if amare was being dicked around as you say why didnt he opt out?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
mreinman
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7/16/2014  11:51 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:he is not the best fit in the triangle sad to say. he's also dead man walking. i hope he asks for a trade and someone takes him. i don't like the way the knicks dicked him around, max or no max.

I think the Knicks want to trade him. It is hard to find a team that can take on a guy making 23 mil. If that guy has a minutes restriction and needs to sit out every third or fourth game it is much harder.
On a side note if amare was being dicked around as you say why didnt he opt out?

Poor Amare being "dicked" around making a gazzilion bucks while sucking azz. My heart bleeds for you.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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7/17/2014  12:01 AM
misterearl wrote:Nixluva - two words.

Dee-fense.


I'm not that worried about the defense. I think they'll defend well enough. This team is built for offense and if they're scoring efficiently they will win a lot of games. As i've pointed out before, this team went 16-7 to close the season March and April. If Fish gets this team to buy in and they're winning they'll defend well enough. They won't be a great defensive team, but that's not the end of the world. It's all about Point Differential.

It will be interesting to see how Fish has them defend. I haven't noticed a lot of switching in SL. It seems like he wants pressure on the ball and for guys to mostly play man and slide over to shut down penetration. So wherever the ball is they kind of cheat over to the strong side and work as a team to try and shut down lanes.
yellowboy90
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7/17/2014  12:37 AM
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:he is not the best fit in the triangle sad to say. he's also dead man walking. i hope he asks for a trade and someone takes him. i don't like the way the knicks dicked him around, max or no max.

I think the Knicks want to trade him. It is hard to find a team that can take on a guy making 23 mil. If that guy has a minutes restriction and needs to sit out every third or fourth game it is much harder.
On a side note if amare was being dicked around as you say why didnt he opt out?

Poor Amare being "dicked" around making a gazzilion bucks while sucking azz. My heart bleeds for you.

Well for one they had a team lay up line that they made him go through during a playoff game which lead to him hurting his back when he tried to show off before the game. Secondly, I think they purposely put a fire extinguisher near him the following year in the playoffs.

On top of that they made him sit out large chunks of games under the guise of a made up knee injury.
misterearl
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7/17/2014  6:36 AM
They?

nixluva wrote:
misterearl wrote:Nixluva - two words.

Dee-fense.


I'm not that worried about the defense. I think they'll defend well enough. This team is built for offense and if they're scoring efficiently they will win a lot of games. As i've pointed out before, this team went 16-7 to close the season March and April. If Fish gets this team to buy in and they're winning they'll defend well enough. They won't be a great defensive team, but that's not the end of the world. It's all about Point Differential.

It will be interesting to see how Fish has them defend. I haven't noticed a lot of switching in SL. It seems like he wants pressure on the ball and for guys to mostly play man and slide over to shut down penetration. So wherever the ball is they kind of cheat over to the strong side and work as a team to try and shut down lanes.

Nixluva - this thread is not about team defense.

This thread is about Amare Stoudemire's contribution on defense.

once a knick always a knick
Knicksfan
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7/17/2014  7:40 AM
We know Amar'e isn't obsolete as long as he is healthy. He isn't great on defensive schemes (remember the Detroit game?) but when active, he can have his moments there. On the last year of his contract, he may surprise.
Knicks_Fan
misterearl
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7/17/2014  9:10 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2014  9:10 AM
Knicksfan - it would be great to see Amar'e adjust his skill set to The Fisher principles. As 12 years of playing habits have been ingrained, it is less likely that Stoudemire would be a better student than ... just for kicks and giggles... Jason Smith.

His game is what it is.

Not what we hope it will be.

once a knick always a knick
VDesai
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7/17/2014  9:37 AM
Amare has been one of the best pick and roll finishers in the league for the last decade and works great when the offense is in perpetual motion. In addition he's money on 15 footers. He will kill it in the triangle.
misterearl
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7/17/2014  9:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2014  9:39 AM
VDesai - from your keyboard to The Kurt Rambis playbook.

But what about defense and rebounding?

The Knicks championship teams were built on defense, not offense.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/17/2014  9:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2014  9:50 AM
Defense (exerpts from NYTimes piece by Howard Beck, Feb 24, 2010)

On the court, Holzman demanded great attention to defense. His teams picked up the opponent early in the play.

”The pressure was always there to give an effort defensively,” Jackson said. ”If you didn’t do that, you were going to sit. As a result, I got very intense about defense.”

”The code word on our offense was ‘hit the open man,’ ” Jackson said. ”On defense, it was ‘see the ball.’ Those were the two things that Red would say to you when you were standing there on offense or working on defense.”

Defense

See The Ball Amare

once a knick always a knick
VDesai
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7/17/2014  9:55 AM
Just watch Phil Jax' summer league interview and you will know right away he is asking for defense first. My expectations of Amare on that end are not going to be that high, but overall our team defense should do a better job of hiding him. If he's playing next to Sam Dalembert or Cole Aldrich protecting the rim he will do just fine.
VDesai
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7/17/2014  9:57 AM
BTW, Amare has long been one of those guys who plays better on both ends when he gets engaged and energized. When things are going well for him offensively he will shot a lot more enthusiasm on the other end too. You can go back to the 2011-2012 season and in that streak when he was scoring 30+ per night he was all of a sudden blocking shots and bringing more vigor to the other end.
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