smackeddog wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:First summer he's had to actually work on his game since he was a rookie- I haven't given up on him yet!

Me neither. I actually have a decent amount of hope for him in this coming season. His talent and physical ability is there. He does need to be more consistent finding the bucket but he deserves a lot more opportunities too.

Ball handling and footwork would do wonders for his game, fortunately things Phil believes are important.

He might actually have to be more of a go to guy on a team to really be effective- something the Knicks are not going to let him be. His touch when driving has always been inconsistent, and when poor, it has almost been amateurish.

The PG experiment in SL last year was poorly thought out, and he was never going to succeed in an isolation heavy offense like the one we had last year, especially if he was not one of the first 3 options.

If he stays on the team, you hope that Phil/Fisher can resurrect him as a player. If he has a specified role and it is designed for his talents, perhaps he will stick around this season.

Turning point season for Shumpert- we will see if Fisher finds a place for him and Iman rises to the occasion. I figure that he lives or dies based on how consistent his jumper is and whether his defense is more consistent than it was last year.

Jr Smith is an ******* but he should not be coming off the bench for a bum like Shump. Off the bench the knicks now have ellington, and THJr. Neither are still searching for a position. These dudes are shooting guards that are just as effective as Shump. So that's 3 replacements already on the roster.

Shump still has value.....so we trade him and not look back. Of course we don't give him away, but if a team wants him and we get a 1st round pick, or a young player at the 3-4-5, or we get cap space and a rotation player like in the Philly rumors, then you trade him and not think twice about it.

Nuff said

And these are players that showed up last year to Settles pro Am

If your are sick with the dribble, it shows.

If you are sick at passing, they show it.

If you are just an physical specimen, they show it.

At these games you should be able to show all your talents and dominate.

I think Spencer Hawes has more handle than Slumps...lol.

BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:First summer he's had to actually work on his game since he was a rookie- I haven't given up on him yet!

Me neither. I actually have a decent amount of hope for him in this coming season. His talent and physical ability is there. He does need to be more consistent finding the bucket but he deserves a lot more opportunities too.

Ball handling and footwork would do wonders for his game, fortunately things Phil believes are important.

Post game wouldn't hurt either.

One thing at a time- if he gets his footwork right, he might actually be able to finish at the basket!

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are just too f'ng much. There's nothing wrong with how he looks in the damn video. Shump is a talented kid that hasn't had a clean shot to develop. There's been injury and team issues that have IMO stunted his growth, but he's still capable of reaching his full potential. You've all seen the level he can take his game to when he flashed here and there, but maybe this year he puts it all together and gains that consistency we've been waiting for. Doesn't mean he's gonna be some star, but he can be a very impactful player and I hope he does that here in NY. He may be traded. Who knows.

From what i've been seeing of him in videos this summer, he looks like his handle is much more confident and tighter. He's more confident and decisive in his pull up jumpers and quicker with the ball. I think if you already don't like him it's easy to try and make it seem like he's no good, but I think you're bias is effecting your vision and scouting ability. Impatience is another issue for many Knick fans. If a player doesn't show right away he's a bum. Grow the F up. It doesn't always work that way.

And people who are skeptical of Shumpert's game should change our opinion, why? Because of a mix tape against dudes as talented as UK posters?

Because we've been down this road before: Oh Channing Frye is a bum, Trevor Ariza is a bum, Jordan Hill is a bum, Gallo is a bum, Wilson Chandler is a bum, etc etc- part of developing players is sticking with them even when it looks like they're regressing or not making any improvement. How many times have we got rid of a player after a bad season, only to see them become a solid contributor on another team.

Is the problem giving up on them or giving up on them at the worst possible time and for poor return? Let's be honest, Shumpert is a role player, which makes him expendable. I'm all for keeping indispensable talent but he has not proven to be that. If I can get a pick, I'd do it to avoid having to overpay him when he becomes a free agent.

mreinman wrote:When has Shumpert ever shown that he can be a decent offensive player? He has always been bad, and he was not a good offensive player in college either.

Same was said about Ariza, but he's had some good offensive seasons, and has proved to be a valuable player even when his shot hasn't been there.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:When has Shumpert ever shown that he can be a decent offensive player? He has always been bad, and he was not a good offensive player in college either.

Same was said about Ariza, but he's had some good offensive seasons, and has proved to be a valuable player even when his shot hasn't been there.

Ariza is not shump and some players fail and some succeed and learn how to play.

We can't assume that Shump will do what he has never shown that he can do.

And we can't assume that he's never going to improve

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are just too f'ng much. There's nothing wrong with how he looks in the damn video. Shump is a talented kid that hasn't had a clean shot to develop. There's been injury and team issues that have IMO stunted his growth, but he's still capable of reaching his full potential. You've all seen the level he can take his game to when he flashed here and there, but maybe this year he puts it all together and gains that consistency we've been waiting for. Doesn't mean he's gonna be some star, but he can be a very impactful player and I hope he does that here in NY. He may be traded. Who knows.

From what i've been seeing of him in videos this summer, he looks like his handle is much more confident and tighter. He's more confident and decisive in his pull up jumpers and quicker with the ball. I think if you already don't like him it's easy to try and make it seem like he's no good, but I think you're bias is effecting your vision and scouting ability. Impatience is another issue for many Knick fans. If a player doesn't show right away he's a bum. Grow the F up. It doesn't always work that way.

And people who are skeptical of Shumpert's game should change our opinion, why? Because of a mix tape against dudes as talented as UK posters?

Because we've been down this road before: Oh Channing Frye is a bum, Trevor Ariza is a bum, Jordan Hill is a bum, Gallo is a bum, Wilson Chandler is a bum, etc etc- part of developing players is sticking with them even when it looks like they're regressing or not making any improvement. How many times have we got rid of a player after a bad season, only to see them become a solid contributor on another team.

This is true. The Knicks have an atrocious record developing young talent.

However, Shump displays some really, _really_ disconcerting traits that lead one to believe his ceiling is not very high. Think: Poor Man's Tony Allen. For one, Shump is horrid finishing inside. For someone so athletic that's a huge red flag. Secondly, his offense all around has never shown consistency in any one area. He should have at least one go-to way to score by now, no?! 3 point shot, floater, go left and drive. Anything!!!

Yeah his D can be good but even that is inconsistent and this overrated. This is all reflected in his value around the league. We have a report that OKC offered the 29th pick for him. That's a very marginal pick in terms of value. At this point the Knicks could try one more season under Phil to see if he comes around or they could dump him for anything of value and not look back. Either way I wouldn't lose any sleep.