CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Straight up spin. Sloan couldn't get Deron Williams to not be disprove anymore than Phil can get Melo to.
This is an adult multimillionaire who is rightly or wrongly adored by a star crazy fanbase. His current actions show that he is immature and attention seeking and he wants star treatment. He obviously thinks he deserves to be treated differently and if that's not disruptive to a team concept I don't know what would be.

Do players not mature as they get older and more experienced? Learn from mistakes, improve their game?

Is Deron the same as Melo? Sloan the same as Karl, MDA or Woodson?

His current actions to me don't seem nearly as attention whoring we have seen by him and others in the past. We are hyping it as is the Media. The MeloPalooza banners are done by the BUlls and Rockets, not Melo.
While Im not homer on the subject of Melo I don't find his actions nearly as appaling as "the decision" or even close.

The man is a free agent for the first time and teams are trying to pair him within the constraints of the financial realities that exist. He picked 4 teams to visit.

Disruptive to team concept? The notion of it on the knicks is almost laughable! Can't win without a star and they are rare indeed. Perhaps you want the recreation of the 1970-73 knicks as we all might but this is not the NBA today. The spurs are the exception not the rule. Larry Browns Pistons as well. After that, its the stars that win.

MY point is can Melo become a better passer in the triangle? can the game be easier for him and subsequently the rest of the team? Can Melo be a better player under ZEN-PHISh?

Apparently one of us lives in a bizarre alternate universe. Because I don't see any reduction in his attention seeking childish behavior. He actually came out and said he wants to be wooed by other teams - if that doesn't spell Diva to you then we should start with English 101. I am so tired of the "can't win without a star" line it's not even funny. In case you didn't catch on over the last four years we obviously can't win with a so-called start either especially the current incumbent. Yes team concept was laughable in NY - mainly because we were catering to this selfish man-child. Need to let go of the past and move on.

Phil isn't coaching Fisher is, I would rather he spend his energy building a championship team than trying to convert a man-child into a man at age 30. Do you zen?

As a Knicks fan the idea of Melo buying into the triangle and bringing his game to another level which in turn helps the Knicks contend is very appealing.

I don't understand why the thought of this offends you. This should be something all Knicks fans hope for as it would be the best case scenario.

Where did I say I would be offended by Melo buying into the team plan? I just said it's quite possibly a waste of time and money to even try to get him to buy in. And that's based on reality and having watched him for the last 4 years. I am more concerned with what's best for the Knicks and in my opinion that does not include Melo in it. Let him go take 35 shots a game for some other team. If he buys in I will be happy. But I don't think that will happen.

Melo shot 40% from three this past season. He shot 46% from the field. The only other player that played over 2000 minutes to shoot over 40% was JR at 41. The next closest was Felton at 39%. Not sure what you want or expect. JR and Felton were also the next most prolific shooters at 13 and 9 shots a game. I don't know. You are talking about a guy that led the team in scoring, rebounding and was second in assists.

OMG - looks like you are taking everything I day and twisting it around. I want a valved scoring out of s balanced roster with two way players where we don't have to rely on a terrible inefficient chucking machine. And the reason we will never have that is because we ate paying the same chuckling machine 26MM a year.

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Straight up spin. Sloan couldn't get Deron Williams to not be disprove anymore than Phil can get Melo to.
This is an adult multimillionaire who is rightly or wrongly adored by a star crazy fanbase. His current actions show that he is immature and attention seeking and he wants star treatment. He obviously thinks he deserves to be treated differently and if that's not disruptive to a team concept I don't know what would be.

Do players not mature as they get older and more experienced? Learn from mistakes, improve their game?

Is Deron the same as Melo? Sloan the same as Karl, MDA or Woodson?

His current actions to me don't seem nearly as attention whoring we have seen by him and others in the past. We are hyping it as is the Media. The MeloPalooza banners are done by the BUlls and Rockets, not Melo.
While Im not homer on the subject of Melo I don't find his actions nearly as appaling as "the decision" or even close.

The man is a free agent for the first time and teams are trying to pair him within the constraints of the financial realities that exist. He picked 4 teams to visit.

Disruptive to team concept? The notion of it on the knicks is almost laughable! Can't win without a star and they are rare indeed. Perhaps you want the recreation of the 1970-73 knicks as we all might but this is not the NBA today. The spurs are the exception not the rule. Larry Browns Pistons as well. After that, its the stars that win.

MY point is can Melo become a better passer in the triangle? can the game be easier for him and subsequently the rest of the team? Can Melo be a better player under ZEN-PHISh?

Apparently one of us lives in a bizarre alternate universe. Because I don't see any reduction in his attention seeking childish behavior. He actually came out and said he wants to be wooed by other teams - if that doesn't spell Diva to you then we should start with English 101. I am so tired of the "can't win without a star" line it's not even funny. In case you didn't catch on over the last four years we obviously can't win with a so-called start either especially the current incumbent. Yes team concept was laughable in NY - mainly because we were catering to this selfish man-child. Need to let go of the past and move on.

Phil isn't coaching Fisher is, I would rather he spend his energy building a championship team than trying to convert a man-child into a man at age 30. Do you zen?

As a Knicks fan the idea of Melo buying into the triangle and bringing his game to another level which in turn helps the Knicks contend is very appealing.

I don't understand why the thought of this offends you. This should be something all Knicks fans hope for as it would be the best case scenario.

Where did I say I would be offended by Melo buying into the team plan? I just said it's quite possibly a waste of time and money to even try to get him to buy in. And that's based on reality and having watched him for the last 4 years. I am more concerned with what's best for the Knicks and in my opinion that does not include Melo in it. Let him go take 35 shots a game for some other team. If he buys in I will be happy. But I don't think that will happen.

Melo shot 40% from three this past season. He shot 46% from the field. The only other player that played over 2000 minutes to shoot over 40% was JR at 41. The next closest was Felton at 39%. Not sure what you want or expect. JR and Felton were also the next most prolific shooters at 13 and 9 shots a game. I don't know. You are talking about a guy that led the team in scoring, rebounding and was second in assists.

OMG - looks like you are taking everything I day and twisting it around. I want a valved scoring out of s balanced roster with two way players where we don't have to rely on a terrible inefficient chucking machine. And the reason we will never have that is because we ate paying the same chuckling machine 26MM a year.

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Straight up spin. Sloan couldn't get Deron Williams to not be disprove anymore than Phil can get Melo to.
This is an adult multimillionaire who is rightly or wrongly adored by a star crazy fanbase. His current actions show that he is immature and attention seeking and he wants star treatment. He obviously thinks he deserves to be treated differently and if that's not disruptive to a team concept I don't know what would be.

Do players not mature as they get older and more experienced? Learn from mistakes, improve their game?

Is Deron the same as Melo? Sloan the same as Karl, MDA or Woodson?

His current actions to me don't seem nearly as attention whoring we have seen by him and others in the past. We are hyping it as is the Media. The MeloPalooza banners are done by the BUlls and Rockets, not Melo.
While Im not homer on the subject of Melo I don't find his actions nearly as appaling as "the decision" or even close.

The man is a free agent for the first time and teams are trying to pair him within the constraints of the financial realities that exist. He picked 4 teams to visit.

Disruptive to team concept? The notion of it on the knicks is almost laughable! Can't win without a star and they are rare indeed. Perhaps you want the recreation of the 1970-73 knicks as we all might but this is not the NBA today. The spurs are the exception not the rule. Larry Browns Pistons as well. After that, its the stars that win.

MY point is can Melo become a better passer in the triangle? can the game be easier for him and subsequently the rest of the team? Can Melo be a better player under ZEN-PHISh?

Apparently one of us lives in a bizarre alternate universe. Because I don't see any reduction in his attention seeking childish behavior. He actually came out and said he wants to be wooed by other teams - if that doesn't spell Diva to you then we should start with English 101. I am so tired of the "can't win without a star" line it's not even funny. In case you didn't catch on over the last four years we obviously can't win with a so-called start either especially the current incumbent. Yes team concept was laughable in NY - mainly because we were catering to this selfish man-child. Need to let go of the past and move on.

Phil isn't coaching Fisher is, I would rather he spend his energy building a championship team than trying to convert a man-child into a man at age 30. Do you zen?

As a Knicks fan the idea of Melo buying into the triangle and bringing his game to another level which in turn helps the Knicks contend is very appealing.

I don't understand why the thought of this offends you. This should be something all Knicks fans hope for as it would be the best case scenario.

Where did I say I would be offended by Melo buying into the team plan? I just said it's quite possibly a waste of time and money to even try to get him to buy in. And that's based on reality and having watched him for the last 4 years. I am more concerned with what's best for the Knicks and in my opinion that does not include Melo in it. Let him go take 35 shots a game for some other team. If he buys in I will be happy. But I don't think that will happen.

Melo shot 40% from three this past season. He shot 46% from the field. The only other player that played over 2000 minutes to shoot over 40% was JR at 41. The next closest was Felton at 39%. Not sure what you want or expect. JR and Felton were also the next most prolific shooters at 13 and 9 shots a game. I don't know. You are talking about a guy that led the team in scoring, rebounding and was second in assists.

OMG - looks like you are taking everything I day and twisting it around. I want a valved scoring out of s balanced roster with two way players where we don't have to rely on a terrible inefficient chucking machine. And the reason we will never have that is because we ate paying the same chuckling machine 26MM a year.

He was not inefficient. Stop saying that because its wrong.

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Straight up spin. Sloan couldn't get Deron Williams to not be disprove anymore than Phil can get Melo to.
This is an adult multimillionaire who is rightly or wrongly adored by a star crazy fanbase. His current actions show that he is immature and attention seeking and he wants star treatment. He obviously thinks he deserves to be treated differently and if that's not disruptive to a team concept I don't know what would be.

Do players not mature as they get older and more experienced? Learn from mistakes, improve their game?

Is Deron the same as Melo? Sloan the same as Karl, MDA or Woodson?

His current actions to me don't seem nearly as attention whoring we have seen by him and others in the past. We are hyping it as is the Media. The MeloPalooza banners are done by the BUlls and Rockets, not Melo.
While Im not homer on the subject of Melo I don't find his actions nearly as appaling as "the decision" or even close.

The man is a free agent for the first time and teams are trying to pair him within the constraints of the financial realities that exist. He picked 4 teams to visit.

Disruptive to team concept? The notion of it on the knicks is almost laughable! Can't win without a star and they are rare indeed. Perhaps you want the recreation of the 1970-73 knicks as we all might but this is not the NBA today. The spurs are the exception not the rule. Larry Browns Pistons as well. After that, its the stars that win.

MY point is can Melo become a better passer in the triangle? can the game be easier for him and subsequently the rest of the team? Can Melo be a better player under ZEN-PHISh?

Apparently one of us lives in a bizarre alternate universe. Because I don't see any reduction in his attention seeking childish behavior. He actually came out and said he wants to be wooed by other teams - if that doesn't spell Diva to you then we should start with English 101. I am so tired of the "can't win without a star" line it's not even funny. In case you didn't catch on over the last four years we obviously can't win with a so-called start either especially the current incumbent. Yes team concept was laughable in NY - mainly because we were catering to this selfish man-child. Need to let go of the past and move on.

Phil isn't coaching Fisher is, I would rather he spend his energy building a championship team than trying to convert a man-child into a man at age 30. Do you zen?

As a Knicks fan the idea of Melo buying into the triangle and bringing his game to another level which in turn helps the Knicks contend is very appealing.

I don't understand why the thought of this offends you. This should be something all Knicks fans hope for as it would be the best case scenario.

Where did I say I would be offended by Melo buying into the team plan? I just said it's quite possibly a waste of time and money to even try to get him to buy in. And that's based on reality and having watched him for the last 4 years. I am more concerned with what's best for the Knicks and in my opinion that does not include Melo in it. Let him go take 35 shots a game for some other team. If he buys in I will be happy. But I don't think that will happen.

Phil and Fisher would be the most stable environment that Melo and the Knicks have had since they teamed up 4 yrs ago. Bringing one of the most successful systems in NBA history(11 championships). There wouldn't be a justifiable excuse for Melo to break away from the system when both the coach and Prez won championships with it. We know that Phil will back Fisher on the principals of the triangle. All the players brought in will be players that fit and enhance the triangle. There is no wiggle room for Melo to be a "diva" or "selfish chucking machine". Phil is also a great communicator who is usually capable of smoothing over issues and making players understand where he is coming from. All the ingredients to keep star players in line. I can see Phi playing the Jordan and Kobe angle to Melo on how he made them champs.

Compare that to the past 4 yrs which you are basing your viewpoint of Melo on. The hierarchy wasn't nearly as strong. MDA was a passive aggressive coach who didn't like confrontation and wasn't a good communicator. After Walsh left he and the GM(Grunwald) who was pretty much a yes man to Dolan didn't seem on the same page on building the team through MDA's system. Plus Melo held more power then MDA and Grunwald at this point. With Woodson & Grunwald we actually had some semblance of cohesion when Woodson got his vets in Kidd, Wallace, Camby, KT, and what do you know we won 54games. Then Dolan on a favor to his CAA buddies forced Grunny to make a trade for Bargs against Woodson's ideals on what he would like for his roster. As well as made under the table deal with Jr Smith allowing his little brother to make the roster. Grunny was also fired weeks before the season started. Melo still held more power then anyone else in the org other then Dolan.

Circumstances so far have clearly changed. And yes we can bash Carmelo for not being great enough a basketball player or person to be able to carry all of that on his back and make it work. But here is to hoping that the "Phish" hierarchy leadership and triangle is just the structure Melo needs to get his act together and bring his game to the next level.

goos summation!

Papabear wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Straight up spin. Sloan couldn't get Deron Williams to not be disprove anymore than Phil can get Melo to.
This is an adult multimillionaire who is rightly or wrongly adored by a star crazy fanbase. His current actions show that he is immature and attention seeking and he wants star treatment. He obviously thinks he deserves to be treated differently and if that's not disruptive to a team concept I don't know what would be.

Do players not mature as they get older and more experienced? Learn from mistakes, improve their game?

Is Deron the same as Melo? Sloan the same as Karl, MDA or Woodson?

His current actions to me don't seem nearly as attention whoring we have seen by him and others in the past. We are hyping it as is the Media. The MeloPalooza banners are done by the BUlls and Rockets, not Melo.
While Im not homer on the subject of Melo I don't find his actions nearly as appaling as "the decision" or even close.

The man is a free agent for the first time and teams are trying to pair him within the constraints of the financial realities that exist. He picked 4 teams to visit.

Disruptive to team concept? The notion of it on the knicks is almost laughable! Can't win without a star and they are rare indeed. Perhaps you want the recreation of the 1970-73 knicks as we all might but this is not the NBA today. The spurs are the exception not the rule. Larry Browns Pistons as well. After that, its the stars that win.

MY point is can Melo become a better passer in the triangle? can the game be easier for him and subsequently the rest of the team? Can Melo be a better player under ZEN-PHISh?

Apparently one of us lives in a bizarre alternate universe. Because I don't see any reduction in his attention seeking childish behavior. He actually came out and said he wants to be wooed by other teams - if that doesn't spell Diva to you then we should start with English 101. I am so tired of the "can't win without a star" line it's not even funny. In case you didn't catch on over the last four years we obviously can't win with a so-called start either especially the current incumbent. Yes team concept was laughable in NY - mainly because we were catering to this selfish man-child. Need to let go of the past and move on.

Phil isn't coaching Fisher is, I would rather he spend his energy building a championship team than trying to convert a man-child into a man at age 30. Do you zen?

Papabear Says

Meloshouldgo I think you should change your name to Melo is staying because in a few days he will be a Knick again.

meloshouldgo wrote:I like your optimism but I don't share it. I have heard this story about MElo one time too many. The year we had all the vests was going to be THE year then it became excuses based on injuries. And poor poor Melo was left to do everything by himself. Then last year we were told we had Woodson the basketball genius who took a 30 win team to 54 wins who was a father figure to Melo and could get through to him. And then it was the Fault of the roster being bad. Next year it will be Fisher being an inexperienced coach. The list is endless. The reality is people who can't ser Melo do anything wrong, won't.

No amount of zen or coaching if going to alert the fact that we will have led than two thirds of the cap to build a championship contending team. Which we have seen time and again is not mathematically possible.

And who ever said we had "Woodson the basketball genius"? Certainly wasn't a majority of the fan base if any of the fan base for that matter.

And the father figure thing had usually applied to JR, not Melo.

meloshouldgo wrote:I like your optimism but I don't share it. I have heard this story about MElo one time too many. The year we had all the vests was going to be THE year then it became excuses based on injuries. And poor poor Melo was left to do everything by himself. Then last year we were told we had Woodson the basketball genius who took a 30 win team to 54 wins who was a father figure to Melo and could get through to him. And then it was the Fault of the roster being bad. Next year it will be Fisher being an inexperienced coach. The list is endless. The reality is people who can't ser Melo do anything wrong, won't.

No amount of zen or coaching if going to alert the fact that we will have led than two thirds of the cap to build a championship contending team. Which we have seen time and again is not mathematically possible.

I doesn't matter if Melo was apart of the franchise or not if the hierarchy isn't stable then there isn't going to be sustained success regardless. Majority of the Knicks failures have been due to the lack of cohesion from the coaching staff to the front office. If Melo was the reason why the Knicks have failed then why haven't we made the playoffs or won a playoff game the previous 10 yrs before he got here. Clearly there have been issues with the Knicks as an organization that go beyond Carmelo Anthony. Same things were said about Marbury when he was here and then we bought him out and then we still sucked, and then we still overpaid for free agents and we still made block buster deals giving up unprotected lottery picks.

Melo isn't the evil character that you portray him to be or he wouldn't have made the playoffs for 10 out of the 11 yrs of his career. And teams wouldn't be lineing up to woe him in free agency. If he was the player you made him out to be then he would be on the verge of being out of the league. He has his flaws but you exaggerate them.

meloshouldgo wrote:Yes we had injuries do had a bunch of other teams. The Bulls competed just fine without their best player playing. The reason they are able to do that is because they have a balanced roster with two way players. We will always have crappy players and walking wounded because that's all we will ever afford when we give MELO his 26M. The point is nothing is ever good enough for our Melo who is always the victim. It's always somebody else's fault. This player and his fans both seem to subscribe to the concept of zero accountability.

TeamBall wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Yes we had injuries do had a bunch of other teams. The Bulls competed just fine without their best player playing. The reason they are able to do that is because they have a balanced roster with two way players. We will always have crappy players and walking wounded because that's all we will ever afford when we give MELO his 26M. The point is nothing is ever good enough for our Melo who is always the victim. It's always somebody else's fault. This player and his fans both seem to subscribe to the concept of zero accountability.

But you, tkf, dk7th, Bonn, Clean, starksnewing, hell even myself have put blame on him when it was necessary. DK and TKF even put blame on him when it's not necessary. Your username is dedicated to you not wanting him here. It seems to me that there are people who are holding him accountable but you're only focusing on the few who you think aren't.

I am not attacking anyone personally. I have been using generalizations. People who respond to that are the ones who have something personally invested against the generalization. People are free to defend Melo all they like and I should be free to comment on it. I really don't see the issue here?

TeamBall wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Yes we had injuries do had a bunch of other teams. The Bulls competed just fine without their best player playing. The reason they are able to do that is because they have a balanced roster with two way players. We will always have crappy players and walking wounded because that's all we will ever afford when we give MELO his 26M. The point is nothing is ever good enough for our Melo who is always the victim. It's always somebody else's fault. This player and his fans both seem to subscribe to the concept of zero accountability.

But you, tkf, dk7th, Bonn, Clean, starksnewing, hell even myself have put blame on him when it was necessary. DK and TKF even put blame on him when it's not necessary. Your username is dedicated to you not wanting him here. It seems to me that there are people who are holding him accountable but you're only focusing on the few who you think aren't.

I am not attacking anyone personally. I have been using generalizations. People who respond to that are the ones who have something personally invested against the generalization. People are free to defend Melo all they like and I should be free to comment on it. I really don't see the issue here?

No issue at all. I just don't see where the "it's never Melo's fault" narrative comes from. It started 2 seasons ago after we got eliminated by Indiana. The people I named, I wasn't attacking them personally. I was using them - and myself - as an example of people here who do hold Melo accountable. So I don't see how Melo's always getting excuses.

well but there ARE people who refuse to see carmelo anthony as part of the problem, the lack of success. so if people don't see him as part of the problem, then he must be part of the solution, and he is just getting a bad rap because it's everyone else around him who are just not good enough.

hand in hand with this fallacy is the spurious notion that he has "carried the team on his back" with his very dubious heroics, based on one and only one aspect of the game, which is scoring.

not rebounding, not defense. one look at his RPM is proof enough of that.

not playmaking. one look at his usage to assist rate is proof enough of that.

defense and playmaking make you part of the solution. you don;t bring that then you're part of something else. and if you get paid the max then you are REALLY a big part of the problem.