newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks should insist on Bulls taking JR.

We would have to take Boozer to make that work.

oh for sure, I always thought a S&T with Melo and Bulls would involve Booz.

newyorknewyork wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I know the bulls want us to take boozer(who i dont want) but if we do then we also need a couple first rounders, that great european player, asnd maybe mcdermott/butler.

Word is they want to keep Taj. And Melo doesn't want them to gut the team like he did when we got him. That limits us to possibly some of the following: butler, Snell, Mirotic, Dunleavy, McDermott. Phil said he wanted some aggressive defenders, so I guess we'd want either Snell or Butler- the rest are all offense and no D.

At this point, with the threat of losing him to the rockets for nothing, I'd be grateful for anything! butler, Snell and Mirotic would be ideal. A 2016 pick would be nice too. But set your sights low to guard against disappointment.

I find it ironic that now melo all of a sudden doesnt want to "gut" the team lol.

Seems like a very logical epiphany to me, given how NY has played out.

epiphanies are never logical.

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I know the bulls want us to take boozer(who i dont want) but if we do then we also need a couple first rounders, that great european player, asnd maybe mcdermott/butler.

Word is they want to keep Taj. And Melo doesn't want them to gut the team like he did when we got him. That limits us to possibly some of the following: butler, Snell, Mirotic, Dunleavy, McDermott. Phil said he wanted some aggressive defenders, so I guess we'd want either Snell or Butler- the rest are all offense and no D.

At this point, with the threat of losing him to the rockets for nothing, I'd be grateful for anything! butler, Snell and Mirotic would be ideal. A 2016 pick would be nice too. But set your sights low to guard against disappointment.

I find it ironic that now melo all of a sudden doesnt want to "gut" the team lol.

Seems like a very logical epiphany to me, given how NY has played out.

epiphanies are never logical.

logical that he would have an epiphany.

In other words, Melo is convinced that he is willing to take less money instead of forcing a move that will lose the defensive abilities of those great impact role players
From the evolution of Kawaii Leonard, The MWP of the FINALS, Spur's have shown the importance of ROLE PLAYERS, DEVELOPMENT, sacrifices for the better of the team both on and off the court, making plays for each other that make each other better, and SYSTEM/TEAM Basketball

In my opinion, Chicago is comparable to some extent of the Spur's of the East, of course without the rings, but have shown the ability to be a great team without their #1 player for 2 years, being a TOP DEFENSIVE TEAM, GREAT COACHING despite changes with roster, and while still being contenders when all is said and done
Spur's have been easily the BEST team for the past decade from 2000 till today, credit Tim Duncan, Poppavich, Buford, and their entire coaching/development/scouting/training/ and management staff

NO, no necessarily, however, in any case, Boozer/Dunleavy JR's contract MUST be traded/amnestied though not necessarily to NYK's
However, in a sign and trade with NYK and Bulls, Phil has previously said that he is NOT interested in taking back Boozer's contract (though he could be playing hard ball, till CA finally says he is leaving NYK and Bull's will make the moves needed to amnesty Boozer/trade Dunleavy JR in order to sign CA to a nice contract but NOT a MAX)
It is possible that they still might need to trade McDermott/Dunleavy JR/AR in order to satisfy CA's contract, also either amnesty Boozer or trade him (which likely would cost assets despite being quite productive and being an expiring)
Boozer is an undersized PF/C who is on the downhill of his career and is a very good SEASON player but when it counts most, in the playoffs, he just isn't good enough, a reason why Gibson always finished games while Boozer only played in quarters 1 and 3, without playing in quarters 2 and 4
Chicago's owner is cheap, he would much rather prefer trading Boozer and giving up some assets rather than amnestying Boozer (though a team will likely pick up his contract with about 2-3m, similar to how Scola was picked up but is an expiring)

Does this mean that Tony Snell (who is physically very comparable/almost identical, to Leonard and both played for San Diego State in college), along with Mirotic, others like Doug McDermott, Dunleavey, Boozer, Anthony Randolph and their future draft picks trading chips to NYK?

Unless we want to gamble on JR Smith, coming to training camp in NBA shape, regained physical abilities that the knee surgery affected his play last season, and him returning to his greatest career year with better shot selection, ability to START games with much better ability to play consistently with improved penetration and finish/facilitate, play DEFENSE, grab REBOUNDS, and making his team mates better (never done till our 54 win year throughout his career)
However, all of these abilities were gone last season, partly due to his physical limitations after the surgery, the other being his lack of DRIVE/MOTOR/HEART and BB IQ, with the leadership of the vets like Kidd/Wallace/Thomas having a greater impact on the team than just their minutes

Will JR Smith, who has little value right now, come in the training camp in supreme shape on a contract year, as a player option?
Has he been putting the hard needed to regain his physical abilities, both in the court and in the gym?
IF the answer here is NO, we are probably best to just trade him now, rather than taking a risk on him to be a poor player/contract similar to Curry though, making much less
However, if he has been putting in the work, realizing this can determine his possibly FINAL contract

I think Phil Jackson realizes that a sign and trade with The Bull's, he would help building a team that would he would be contending with in the future, a sign and trade not only gives CA more money vs Bull's signing him outright, but also allows The Bull's to have the FULL 5m + MLE vs only the about 2m room exemption aka LLE/Bi Annual Exemption (which may be used once every other year when under the cap, predicted to be about 62.5m) (last used 2 seasons ago for Marco Belinelli)

RonRon wrote:Next up for Melo is

Houston and Dallas to convince him otherwise

While in any scenario I would prefer CA to go out West if he is not staying at a discount in years 2015-16 and 2016-17
Of course I would prefer a sign and trade to get back some assets, though I don't think it would be realistic to get back what some posters would prefer here, these teams have the ability to sign him outright while making some trades
Phil Jackson is playing hard ball, but if push came to shove, the ball is in CA's court, and we likely will be forced to take back whatever we can get, *in the range of 3 draft picks, though one would be a 2nd rounder, and anything more is a +++*

Of course, in all scenarios CA, will have to make much less than his "max" deal but will be able to contend starting next season

In Phil we trust, there is a rumor out there saying Phil Jackson has offered a MAX deal if that is what it took for CA to stay a Knick
I don't buy it, I think it is just rumor's on CA's agency in CAA, looking for the best possible deal
If it is true, I am quite surprised that CA didn't just straight out take the offer, though being courted/wine and dined is a once in a chance opportunity for a man

And IF it is true, is Dolan behind this and Phil Jackson just following his orders?
I just cannot see us ever building a CHAMPIONSHIP level team if that is true, while letting him GO for NO COMPENSATION despite us trading a team and future for him and making dumb overpaid to build a team around him
Will Phil Jackson leave like Donnie Walsh did, if we continue to suck?
Without the FULL CONTROL that Phil Jackson demanded from the START when he took the job on ALL BASKETBALL related decisions

By the time we have the ability to build a play off contender, CA could be in the downhill of his career, a reason I would much rather let him walk for NOTHING than paying MAX in order to keep him

same here!

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

RonRon wrote:Next up for Melo is

Houston and Dallas to convince him otherwise

While in any scenario I would prefer CA to go out West if he is not staying at a discount in years 2015-16 and 2016-17
Of course I would prefer a sign and trade to get back some assets, though I don't think it would be realistic to get back what some posters would prefer here, these teams have the ability to sign him outright while making some trades
Phil Jackson is playing hard ball, but if push came to shove, the ball is in CA's court, and we likely will be forced to take back whatever we can get, *in the range of 3 draft picks, though one would be a 2nd rounder, and anything more is a +++*

Of course, in all scenarios CA, will have to make much less than his "max" deal but will be able to contend starting next season

In Phil we trust, there is a rumor out there saying Phil Jackson has offered a MAX deal if that is what it took for CA to stay a Knick
I don't buy it, I think it is just rumor's on CA's agency in CAA, looking for the best possible deal
If it is true, I am quite surprised that CA didn't just straight out take the offer, though being courted/wine and dined is a once in a chance opportunity for a man

And IF it is true, is Dolan behind this and Phil Jackson just following his orders?
I just cannot see us ever building a CHAMPIONSHIP level team if that is true, while letting him GO for NO COMPENSATION despite us trading a team and future for him and making dumb overpaid to build a team around him
Will Phil Jackson leave like Donnie Walsh did, if we continue to suck?
Without the FULL CONTROL that Phil Jackson demanded from the START when he took the job on ALL BASKETBALL related decisions

By the time we have the ability to build a play off contender, CA could be in the downhill of his career, a reason I would much rather let him walk for NOTHING than paying MAX in order to keep him

same here!

Not me, you can't let an asset that big walk for nothing. Can always trade him after season starts.

i am advocating culture change here. clean house. i regard carmelo as sunk cost. i can't imagine him as a locker room presence under your scenario.

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

RonRon wrote:Next up for Melo is

Houston and Dallas to convince him otherwise

While in any scenario I would prefer CA to go out West if he is not staying at a discount in years 2015-16 and 2016-17
Of course I would prefer a sign and trade to get back some assets, though I don't think it would be realistic to get back what some posters would prefer here, these teams have the ability to sign him outright while making some trades
Phil Jackson is playing hard ball, but if push came to shove, the ball is in CA's court, and we likely will be forced to take back whatever we can get, *in the range of 3 draft picks, though one would be a 2nd rounder, and anything more is a +++*

Of course, in all scenarios CA, will have to make much less than his "max" deal but will be able to contend starting next season

In Phil we trust, there is a rumor out there saying Phil Jackson has offered a MAX deal if that is what it took for CA to stay a Knick
I don't buy it, I think it is just rumor's on CA's agency in CAA, looking for the best possible deal
If it is true, I am quite surprised that CA didn't just straight out take the offer, though being courted/wine and dined is a once in a chance opportunity for a man

And IF it is true, is Dolan behind this and Phil Jackson just following his orders?
I just cannot see us ever building a CHAMPIONSHIP level team if that is true, while letting him GO for NO COMPENSATION despite us trading a team and future for him and making dumb overpaid to build a team around him
Will Phil Jackson leave like Donnie Walsh did, if we continue to suck?
Without the FULL CONTROL that Phil Jackson demanded from the START when he took the job on ALL BASKETBALL related decisions

By the time we have the ability to build a play off contender, CA could be in the downhill of his career, a reason I would much rather let him walk for NOTHING than paying MAX in order to keep him

same here!

Not me, you can't let an asset that big walk for nothing. Can always trade him after season starts.

i am advocating culture change here. clean house. i regard carmelo as sunk cost. i can't imagine him as a locker room presence under your scenario.

seems to me you wouldn't be a good GM then, you can't just let that kind of player/asset walk for nothing. If it was someone like Josh Smith or Marbury, I'd be for it, but not him.