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It's not whether we would max Melo, but really whether you'll still back Phil and the Knicks if they do...
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Allanfan20
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7/1/2014  11:02 AM
I am all or bringing Melo back so long we can actually build a healthy team around him. So far we haven't but I think things would have been dramatically different if Shump, Amar'e, Chandler and Felton all stayed healthy. That's a hell of a starting 5, IMO, if all of those guys could have stayed healthy. That is spilled milk almost completely washed up though.
At this point, I think it's going to be extremely difficult to build around a maxed out Melo. He's not getting younger and his body is definitely beat up and not getting any faster. To top it off, he hasn't performed great for us in the playoffs either, including our last run.

IMO, those are fair concerns and that isn't me hating because I am open to bringing him back. I'm just not fully confident in building a team around him. If we do, then awesome. I actually like Melo and would celebrate a championship victory harder than everyone because I do like him.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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gunsnewing
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7/1/2014  11:21 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Wouldn't fault the man for trying to get paid and playing where he wants to, for himself and his family. Its probably his last chance at this big a deal. Only thing is, if Melo does take the max I don't want to hear him complaining that we don't have a strong enough roster to contend. Should have thought of that before signing on the dotted line. I'm hopeful that while it will be a big deal, it won't be the max.

Would it surprise you if he did complain and make himself the victim again?
gunsnewing
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7/1/2014  11:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2014  11:30 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

I think they would be excited to move on with a positive outlook even TKF & dk

No chest pounding
Bonn1997
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7/1/2014  11:31 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

Yeah, I agree that a few don't fit the description I wrote. I'll give you credit for accurate modesty since you didn't specifically put yourself in that group.
ehh... its all good. Hopefully whatever happens we get some great hoops to watch.

I think that Phil manages the top tier talent well. Thats why he brings Melo back. I also think after that happens he makes good moves like the Dallas trade. Nothing earth shattering, just smart moves to maximize everything we have on the roster. Next year we will be back to winning 50+ and its all kumbayaya huggie huggie drinky drinky lets go get some beans...


You're probably right. That said, if Melo doesn't orchestrate the triangle offense the way Fisher and Phil will want him to, I think after a year, they would trade him. With anyone other than Phil, Dolan would probably just tell the coach and GM that they were wrong and need to adjust to Melo.
fishmike
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7/1/2014  11:39 AM
knicks1248 wrote:This entire melo-drama is BS. I just dont understand thinning out your roster to sign one player. Injuries are almost destine to happen in any sports, depth always trumps.

I can't see how melo would goto the bulls, houston, or any other team and think your odds are better with out evaluating the entire picture.

But i really don't care one way or the other, I want a roster full of guys who want to pass and play for each other, in a system that matches the roster. I'll take a High IQ team over a talented team any day of the week.

you need both. The only example that even comes close to team winning over talent are Larry Brown's Pistons, and that team still have the best defensive player of our generation, Billups, Rip, Sheed, a young Prince, McDyess off the bench... I mean that was a great squad. If you look at the finals matchups every other year for the last 30 or so talent ALWAYS trumps.

There are a lot of role players around the league and the world. There are not a lot of elite level guys. We have one. We need a lot more. Alone they wont get you there, but your not going anywhere without them.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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7/1/2014  12:24 PM
I wouldn't even say talented. You need guys who are flat out good (different from talented IMO). The Spurs had talent, IQ, hardworkers, team players and guys who meshed. You can't just have IQ or else you are the 2002-2003 Knicks.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
GustavBahler
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7/1/2014  1:41 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Wouldn't fault the man for trying to get paid and playing where he wants to, for himself and his family. Its probably his last chance at this big a deal. Only thing is, if Melo does take the max I don't want to hear him complaining that we don't have a strong enough roster to contend. Should have thought of that before signing on the dotted line. I'm hopeful that while it will be a big deal, it won't be the max.

Would it surprise you if he did complain and make himself the victim again?

It would surprise me if you passed up an opportunity to whine about him.
gunsnewing
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7/1/2014  1:59 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Wouldn't fault the man for trying to get paid and playing where he wants to, for himself and his family. Its probably his last chance at this big a deal. Only thing is, if Melo does take the max I don't want to hear him complaining that we don't have a strong enough roster to contend. Should have thought of that before signing on the dotted line. I'm hopeful that while it will be a big deal, it won't be the max.

Would it surprise you if he did complain and make himself the victim again?

It would surprise me if you passed up an opportunity to whine about him.

True
GustavBahler
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7/1/2014  2:04 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Wouldn't fault the man for trying to get paid and playing where he wants to, for himself and his family. Its probably his last chance at this big a deal. Only thing is, if Melo does take the max I don't want to hear him complaining that we don't have a strong enough roster to contend. Should have thought of that before signing on the dotted line. I'm hopeful that while it will be a big deal, it won't be the max.

Would it surprise you if he did complain and make himself the victim again?

It would surprise me if you passed up an opportunity to whine about him.

True
Nalod
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7/1/2014  2:10 PM
fishmike wrote:
grillco wrote:I like Melo and don't see him as part of the problem with the Knicks. I'd also like him to go the Duncan route and take less to help the team, but to be clear and fair we must remember that Duncan did it to maintain he team. He wanted to make sure Parker and Manu were happy while providing a little more flexibility for Pop to bring in the best role players to fit their system. Melo doesn't have anything close to that. Anything he takes with the Knicks is a larger theoretical gamble than any other team as NYK has to take the biggest steps to get to championship contention.

I'm not a fan of Phil though, but I'm hoping he can turn things around at MSG and bring at least one ring. So I'm trying to buy in. Will you, the collective or singular, buy in if Phil deems paying Melo max as part of fulfilling that plan?

OR are you (again collective or singular) gonna bitch and moan for the next five years with annoying whining after every lose and "I told you so's" if at the end of the latest iteration there is no chip?

As a glutton for punishment, I'm going to go along for the ride, despite my deep disdain for Dolan...just as I have for the past 15 years of futility.

Duncan took less at 35, not at 30.
Duncan's salary by age:
31 $19mm
32 $20.5mm
33 $22mm
34 $18mm
35 $21mm
36 $9mm
37 $10mm

So when Duncan was a year older than Melo he made $100mm + over the years he was 31-35.

Grillco... you nailed it. This is all about "feelings" all the way around.

Phil wants it to "feel" like Melo signed under Phil's terms, not Melos.
The fans wants to "feel" like Melo took less to be here making him their guy, or sacrificing to be in NY, or whatever
Melo wants everyone to know that all these other teams want him, and when he goes back to the Knicks its because he "feels" like it.

Feelings... nothing more than feelings....

Ya had to got there, didn't you!!!
mreinman
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7/1/2014  2:49 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

Yeah, I agree that a few don't fit the description I wrote. I'll give you credit for accurate modesty since you didn't specifically put yourself in that group.
ehh... its all good. Hopefully whatever happens we get some great hoops to watch.

I think that Phil manages the top tier talent well. Thats why he brings Melo back. I also think after that happens he makes good moves like the Dallas trade. Nothing earth shattering, just smart moves to maximize everything we have on the roster. Next year we will be back to winning 50+ and its all kumbayaya huggie huggie drinky drinky lets go get some beans...


You're probably right. That said, if Melo doesn't orchestrate the triangle offense the way Fisher and Phil will want him to, I think after a year, they would trade him. With anyone other than Phil, Dolan would probably just tell the coach and GM that they were wrong and need to adjust to Melo.

Thats right. No more enabling. If Melo and Smith-Putz does not do exactly what they (PHIL/lil fish) want, first Phil will rip them in the press repeatedly, then if that does not work, he will unload.

Melo probably knows this and its why he probably will not sign here. Its a game of chess ...... ugh

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Nalod
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7/1/2014  3:13 PM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

Yeah, I agree that a few don't fit the description I wrote. I'll give you credit for accurate modesty since you didn't specifically put yourself in that group.
ehh... its all good. Hopefully whatever happens we get some great hoops to watch.

I think that Phil manages the top tier talent well. Thats why he brings Melo back. I also think after that happens he makes good moves like the Dallas trade. Nothing earth shattering, just smart moves to maximize everything we have on the roster. Next year we will be back to winning 50+ and its all kumbayaya huggie huggie drinky drinky lets go get some beans...


You're probably right. That said, if Melo doesn't orchestrate the triangle offense the way Fisher and Phil will want him to, I think after a year, they would trade him. With anyone other than Phil, Dolan would probably just tell the coach and GM that they were wrong and need to adjust to Melo.

Thats right. No more enabling. If Melo and Smith-Putz does not do exactly what they (PHIL/lil fish) want, first Phil will rip them in the press repeatedly, then if that does not work, he will unload.

Melo probably knows this and its why he probably will not sign here. Its a game of chess ...... ugh

So melo is afraid of Media Phil?
CrushAlot
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7/1/2014  3:17 PM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

Yeah, I agree that a few don't fit the description I wrote. I'll give you credit for accurate modesty since you didn't specifically put yourself in that group.
ehh... its all good. Hopefully whatever happens we get some great hoops to watch.

I think that Phil manages the top tier talent well. Thats why he brings Melo back. I also think after that happens he makes good moves like the Dallas trade. Nothing earth shattering, just smart moves to maximize everything we have on the roster. Next year we will be back to winning 50+ and its all kumbayaya huggie huggie drinky drinky lets go get some beans...


You're probably right. That said, if Melo doesn't orchestrate the triangle offense the way Fisher and Phil will want him to, I think after a year, they would trade him. With anyone other than Phil, Dolan would probably just tell the coach and GM that they were wrong and need to adjust to Melo.

Thats right. No more enabling. If Melo and Smith-Putz does not do exactly what they (PHIL/lil fish) want, first Phil will rip them in the press repeatedly, then if that does not work, he will unload.

Melo probably knows this and its why he probably will not sign here. Its a game of chess ...... ugh

I don't see it that way. I think he will be a Knick again. I did think he was going to Chicago but the Bulls moves on draft night kind of messed that up. That and the fact that the Bulls owner won't amnesty Boozer. I don't think Melo goes to Dallas. Hahn was saying the other day that Melo and Tyson aren't close. I think Melo likes Ray but not as his point guard. I think Houston is pretty unlikely as well. Not sure how the Rockets interest in Lowry plays out in their pursuit of Melo/LBJ/Love.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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7/1/2014  3:17 PM
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

Yeah, I agree that a few don't fit the description I wrote. I'll give you credit for accurate modesty since you didn't specifically put yourself in that group.
ehh... its all good. Hopefully whatever happens we get some great hoops to watch.

I think that Phil manages the top tier talent well. Thats why he brings Melo back. I also think after that happens he makes good moves like the Dallas trade. Nothing earth shattering, just smart moves to maximize everything we have on the roster. Next year we will be back to winning 50+ and its all kumbayaya huggie huggie drinky drinky lets go get some beans...


You're probably right. That said, if Melo doesn't orchestrate the triangle offense the way Fisher and Phil will want him to, I think after a year, they would trade him. With anyone other than Phil, Dolan would probably just tell the coach and GM that they were wrong and need to adjust to Melo.

Thats right. No more enabling. If Melo and Smith-Putz does not do exactly what they (PHIL/lil fish) want, first Phil will rip them in the press repeatedly, then if that does not work, he will unload.

Melo probably knows this and its why he probably will not sign here. Its a game of chess ...... ugh

So melo is afraid of Media Phil?

yea I dont buy that at all. We have no idea what was said between them, but all reports are it was good and they connected. Time will tell.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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7/1/2014  3:17 PM
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It would make me deeply skeptical but this one signing alone completely destroy my hope.
That said, you know that regardless of what happens with any player at any point, most people will say "I told you so" or will find a way to claim they weren't wrong if they were. That's just how message boards work.
not really. Some of us hope to be wrong. Others bookmark threads. Most just want the Knicks to win. Others want them to lose because they arent winning "their" way.

Yeah, I agree that a few don't fit the description I wrote. I'll give you credit for accurate modesty since you didn't specifically put yourself in that group.
ehh... its all good. Hopefully whatever happens we get some great hoops to watch.

I think that Phil manages the top tier talent well. Thats why he brings Melo back. I also think after that happens he makes good moves like the Dallas trade. Nothing earth shattering, just smart moves to maximize everything we have on the roster. Next year we will be back to winning 50+ and its all kumbayaya huggie huggie drinky drinky lets go get some beans...


You're probably right. That said, if Melo doesn't orchestrate the triangle offense the way Fisher and Phil will want him to, I think after a year, they would trade him. With anyone other than Phil, Dolan would probably just tell the coach and GM that they were wrong and need to adjust to Melo.

Thats right. No more enabling. If Melo and Smith-Putz does not do exactly what they (PHIL/lil fish) want, first Phil will rip them in the press repeatedly, then if that does not work, he will unload.

Melo probably knows this and its why he probably will not sign here. Its a game of chess ...... ugh

So melo is afraid of Media Phil?

He better be if he (melo) will not be willing to ride the train.

Kobe was lucky that he had the supercasts or else media phil would have completely destroyed him.

Media phil is no picnic if your in the way.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
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