NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Kyrie a pg (who i love to play with in 2k14) makes no one better, you can't have a pg like that unless you can shift him to a 2g like AI.

The most he'll do is get you a quick playoff exit, and thats if he can play more than 70 games. Several players (teammates) were grumbling about his selfish ways. I just don't like PG's that put 25 and 30 shots on a nightly basis, thats not winning basketball.

Yeah, uh, Kyrie Irving averaged 17.4 shots this season. Kid can ball, he's just on a poorly constructed and run team.

In which that leads the team, so now you have your PG leading your tteam in shot attempts. All i'm saying is that it's very difficult to win consistantly when your pg takes the most shots every game, It's never been done. There has to be a balance, steve nash avg 13 to 14 shots ppg (50% from the floor and from DT) to go along with 11.5 asst when he won his mvp's. Irvings shooting pct as been declining (46% 45% 43% fg) and he's not even avg 6ast.

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Kyrie a pg (who i love to play with in 2k14) makes no one better, you can't have a pg like that unless you can shift him to a 2g like AI.

The most he'll do is get you a quick playoff exit, and thats if he can play more than 70 games. Several players (teammates) were grumbling about his selfish ways. I just don't like PG's that put 25 and 30 shots on a nightly basis, thats not winning basketball.

Yeah, uh, Kyrie Irving averaged 17.4 shots this season. Kid can ball, he's just on a poorly constructed and run team.

In which that leads the team, so now you have your PG leading your tteam in shot attempts. All i'm saying is that it's very difficult to win consistantly when your pg takes the most shots every game, It's never been done. There has to be a balance, steve nash avg 13 to 14 shots ppg (50% from the floor and from DT) to go along with 11.5 asst when he won his mvp's. Irvings shooting pct as been declining (46% 45% 43% fg) and he's not even avg 6ast.

Aside from that, Tony Parker just won a title averaging the most shot attempts on his team (13.4). In fact, he has consistently been the team's leader in that regard, having also averaged 17.3 shot attempts during the 2008-2009. And his assists have been in the ballpark of Kyrie, so I don't think that can serve as an admonishment for Irving. You're literally making stuff up as we go along.

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Kyrie a pg (who i love to play with in 2k14) makes no one better, you can't have a pg like that unless you can shift him to a 2g like AI.

The most he'll do is get you a quick playoff exit, and thats if he can play more than 70 games. Several players (teammates) were grumbling about his selfish ways. I just don't like PG's that put 25 and 30 shots on a nightly basis, thats not winning basketball.

Yeah, uh, Kyrie Irving averaged 17.4 shots this season. Kid can ball, he's just on a poorly constructed and run team.

In which that leads the team, so now you have your PG leading your tteam in shot attempts. All i'm saying is that it's very difficult to win consistantly when your pg takes the most shots every game, It's never been done. There has to be a balance, steve nash avg 13 to 14 shots ppg (50% from the floor and from DT) to go along with 11.5 asst when he won his mvp's. Irvings shooting pct as been declining (46% 45% 43% fg) and he's not even avg 6ast.

Tony Parker just won a title averaging the most shot attempts on his team (13.4). In fact, he has consistently been the team's leader in that regard, having also averaged 17.3 shot attempts during the 2008-2009. You're literally making stuff up as we go along.

Dude I'm not making anything up, the spurs didn't win anything in 08/09, (i think they got swept in the playoffs that yr) and I just said Nash won the MVP award taking about 13 to 14 shot ppg.. The spurs are not the team you want to bring up when your talking about unselfish players.

Kyrie is a ball hog, and your trying to convince me that he's not, and then you reaching in places that makes no sense, like bringing parker in to this.

We had this discuss in th WESTbrook thread, scoring PG's are not a safe bet to winning championships. Prove me wrong

So saying that a guy shoots 25-30 times a game, when he only averages 17.3 shots a game isn't making stuff up? How about suggesting that only bad teams have PG's that lead them in shot attempts....ignoring the fact that the present champion was exactly that?

And with exception to Rondo, Jason Kidd, and Magic, scoring PG's are all that has won NBA titles in the past 40 years (see Derek Fisher, Chauncey Billups, Jason Terry, Isiah Thomas, Sam Cassell/Kenny Smith, Ron Harper, Tony Parker, etc.). Again, I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on but it's offbase. The fact of the matter is that Kyrie is on a bum team, so who can he really lean on? Give him legitimate teammates and we wouldn't be having this conversation?

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Kyrie a pg (who i love to play with in 2k14) makes no one better, you can't have a pg like that unless you can shift him to a 2g like AI.

The most he'll do is get you a quick playoff exit, and thats if he can play more than 70 games. Several players (teammates) were grumbling about his selfish ways. I just don't like PG's that put 25 and 30 shots on a nightly basis, thats not winning basketball.

Yeah, uh, Kyrie Irving averaged 17.4 shots this season. Kid can ball, he's just on a poorly constructed and run team.

In which that leads the team, so now you have your PG leading your tteam in shot attempts. All i'm saying is that it's very difficult to win consistantly when your pg takes the most shots every game, It's never been done. There has to be a balance, steve nash avg 13 to 14 shots ppg (50% from the floor and from DT) to go along with 11.5 asst when he won his mvp's. Irvings shooting pct as been declining (46% 45% 43% fg) and he's not even avg 6ast.

Tony Parker just won a title averaging the most shot attempts on his team (13.4). In fact, he has consistently been the team's leader in that regard, having also averaged 17.3 shot attempts during the 2008-2009. You're literally making stuff up as we go along.

Dude I'm not making anything up, the spurs didn't win anything in 08/09, (i think they got swept in the playoffs that yr) and I just said Nash won the MVP award taking about 13 to 14 shot ppg.. The spurs are not the team you want to bring up when your talking about unselfish players.

Kyrie is a ball hog, and your trying to convince me that he's not, and then you reaching in places that makes no sense, like bringing parker in to this.

We had this discuss in th WESTbrook thread, scoring PG's are not a safe bet to winning championships. Prove me wrong

So saying that a guy shoots 25-30 times a game, when he only averages 17.3 shots a game isn't making stuff up? How about suggesting that only bad teams have PG's that lead them in shot attempts....ignoring the fact that the present champion was exactly that?

And with exception to Rondo, Jason Kidd, and Magic, scoring PG's are all that has won NBA titles in the past 40 years (see Derek Fisher, Chauncey Billups, Jason Terry, Isiah Thomas, Sam Cassell/Kenny Smith, Ron Harper, Tony Parker, etc.). Again, I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on but it's offbase. The fact of the matter is that Kyrie is on a bum team, so who can he really lean on? Give him legitimate teammates and we wouldn't be having this conversation?

Those names your giving me are by no means, scoring pg's, none of those guys at any point of their careers avg 20 or more points.

Don't get me wrong, I love kyrie, wish we can have him, but it would have to be with the right coach and the right system.

Kyrie is in the same group as Marbury, AI, westbrook, payton,ect..while those guys are very good, it's really heard to play with them because there tends to be a lot of standing around watching your pg do all or most of the scoring.

Ball handlers should not be first scoring options, thats all im saying.

I agree. I have the same reservations about Kyrie.

smackeddog wrote:I'm sure now he has a max contract, he will become more humble and work even harder...

just the opposite, imagine you landing 90 million dollars at the age of 23, biggie said it best "more money, more problems" you tend to put more on your plate.

This kid is too young and the cavs don't have enough vets in the locker room. They have a young team that won't be in contention (unless a dramtic trade for one of their youngings) for the life of that contract.

It would have been better to give him 70 mill, bring in some vets and build a winning culture, and mind set for your star player.

You would think the cavs would learn their lesson after Labron

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'm sure now he has a max contract, he will become more humble and work even harder...

just the opposite, imagine you landing 90 million dollars at the age of 23, biggie said it best "more money, more problems" you tend to put more on your plate.

This kid is too young and the cavs don't have enough vets in the locker room. They have a young team that won't be in contention (unless a dramtic trade for one of their youngings) for the life of that contract.

It would have been better to give him 70 mill, bring in some vets and build a winning culture, and mind set for your star player.

You would think the cavs would learn their lesson after Labron

I was being sarcastic

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Kyrie a pg (who i love to play with in 2k14) makes no one better, you can't have a pg like that unless you can shift him to a 2g like AI.

The most he'll do is get you a quick playoff exit, and thats if he can play more than 70 games. Several players (teammates) were grumbling about his selfish ways. I just don't like PG's that put 25 and 30 shots on a nightly basis, thats not winning basketball.

Yeah, uh, Kyrie Irving averaged 17.4 shots this season. Kid can ball, he's just on a poorly constructed and run team.

In which that leads the team, so now you have your PG leading your tteam in shot attempts. All i'm saying is that it's very difficult to win consistantly when your pg takes the most shots every game, It's never been done. There has to be a balance, steve nash avg 13 to 14 shots ppg (50% from the floor and from DT) to go along with 11.5 asst when he won his mvp's. Irvings shooting pct as been declining (46% 45% 43% fg) and he's not even avg 6ast.

Tony Parker just won a title averaging the most shot attempts on his team (13.4). In fact, he has consistently been the team's leader in that regard, having also averaged 17.3 shot attempts during the 2008-2009. You're literally making stuff up as we go along.

Dude I'm not making anything up, the spurs didn't win anything in 08/09, (i think they got swept in the playoffs that yr) and I just said Nash won the MVP award taking about 13 to 14 shot ppg.. The spurs are not the team you want to bring up when your talking about unselfish players.

Kyrie is a ball hog, and your trying to convince me that he's not, and then you reaching in places that makes no sense, like bringing parker in to this.

We had this discuss in th WESTbrook thread, scoring PG's are not a safe bet to winning championships. Prove me wrong

So saying that a guy shoots 25-30 times a game, when he only averages 17.3 shots a game isn't making stuff up? How about suggesting that only bad teams have PG's that lead them in shot attempts....ignoring the fact that the present champion was exactly that?

And with exception to Rondo, Jason Kidd, and Magic, scoring PG's are all that has won NBA titles in the past 40 years (see Derek Fisher, Chauncey Billups, Jason Terry, Isiah Thomas, Sam Cassell/Kenny Smith, Ron Harper, Tony Parker, etc.). Again, I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on but it's offbase. The fact of the matter is that Kyrie is on a bum team, so who can he really lean on? Give him legitimate teammates and we wouldn't be having this conversation?

Those names your giving me are by no means, scoring pg's, none of those guys at any point of their careers avg 20 or more points.

Don't get me wrong, I love kyrie, wish we can have him, but it would have to be with the right coach and the right system.

Kyrie is in the same group as Marbury, AI, westbrook, payton,ect..while those guys are very good, it's really heard to play with them because there tends to be a lot of standing around watching your pg do all or most of the scoring.

Ball handlers should not be first scoring options, thats all im saying.

Ron Harper averaged +20ppg in 4 different seasons. Tony Parker had 3, one of which came just last year. Billups had one season. Terry had two. Cassell had 4. Isiah had 6. Should I continue or will you acknowledge that most PG's on championship teams are gunners at heart?

Again, if you give Kyrie a capable franchise, with capable talent, he'd be discussed as being one of the best players in the league. He's built in the same mold as a few of the guys I mentioned on the list.

NardDogNation wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'm sure now he has a max contract, he will become more humble and work even harder...

just the opposite, imagine you landing 90 million dollars at the age of 23, biggie said it best "more money, more problems" you tend to put more on your plate.

This kid is too young and the cavs don't have enough vets in the locker room. They have a young team that won't be in contention (unless a dramtic trade for one of their youngings) for the life of that contract.

It would have been better to give him 70 mill, bring in some vets and build a winning culture, and mind set for your star player.

You would think the cavs would learn their lesson after Labron

So the problem with the Cavs in the 2000s is that they paid LeBron the max?