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newyorknewyork
Posts: 30166
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
6/28/2014  5:52 AM
nixluva wrote:I'm just glad there all going to be giving coaching in how to REALLY play team BB. From day one they'll be learning how to have ball and player movement and spacing. They'll be taught to give 100% effort on D. It's just something to feel good about. A few days ago we didn't have any of this positive vibe going. All of a sudden we have a bunch of interesting young talent to watch develop. I'm ecstatic about that. It's the same way I feel about the job Idzik is doing with the Jets. They've got a boatload of young talent and good cap management. Now the Knicks will be able to go in that direction too if Melo leaves.

Which is what I was thinking about with Shump yesterday in the Triangle. Shump usually makes the correct passes when swinging the ball but if he were to handle the ball and beat his man off the dribble he doesn't have go to moves, can't finish through contact, and doesn't really have court vision to find an open man off of penetration. His pull up jump needs work as well.

But in the triangle(I am not an expert or anything) he should be able to know where everyone is at all times making his decision making simplified.

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tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
6/28/2014  3:12 PM
tj23 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
tj23 wrote:Yeah we're young but I don't know how talented.

Don't let tkf steak your joy bro. Nobody knows what to expect from these young guys especially the ones who haven't played an nba game yet. The potential is there. If these dudes can put so much faith in a bum like Shump then they can have faith with the rest

No disrespect to tkf but I got my own opinions. I do actually agree I can see most of these guys won't be around in a couple years or be end of the bench guys. I like Tyler. He actually looks like he could be a quality Nba starter. Hardaway could be a Danny Greem which is a nice rotation player. And I'm giving Shump one more year to show something. I still think he has a decent ceiling. Maybe Larkin could be a Jerryd Bayless who's not a bad 6th man but that might even be reaching. I'm not crazy about our rooks. I don't see the makings of a winning roster or even remotely close to it but I'm interested to see what Fish and Phil make out of it. Sorry to ruin your positive vibe but that's my opinion.

fair post and you see the problem with the thinking around here.. shumpert was the next paul george now he is a bum.. next year it will be someone else and these guys will be bums.. how can you take any of this serious with some of these post... people put faith in shumpert because they have seen what he can do. he has had a chance to give us data and some feel that the shumpert before the injury was a legit NBA talent.. these guys we got this year are late picks, borderline players, we know nothing of them yet, you have faith in them, but a lot of GM's didn't and until these guys can actually step on the court and prove their worth, lets not talk "potential".....

BTW: this post was somewhat directed at enyspree as well, i really had no problem with your post...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

6/28/2014  6:37 PM
nixluva wrote:I'm just glad there all going to be giving coaching in how to REALLY play team BB. From day one they'll be learning how to have ball and player movement and spacing. They'll be taught to give 100% effort on D. It's just something to feel good about. A few days ago we didn't have any of this positive vibe going. All of a sudden we have a bunch of interesting young talent to watch develop. I'm ecstatic about that. It's the same way I feel about the job Idzik is doing with the Jets. They've got a boatload of young talent and good cap management. Now the Knicks will be able to go in that direction too if Melo leaves.

Good post - this is the most important thing. When Kwai Leonard was picked by SA he wasn't regarded as a superstar. Now look at him.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
RonRon
Posts: 25531
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Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
6/28/2014  9:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/28/2014  9:36 PM
TFK, your philosophy of evaluating talents are completely flawed, when you want to establish your own opinions you realize it, but when you want don't agree with the evaluation you use it against it
Especially when it is towards younger players, especially rookies, and rookie contracts
I will just name a couple of scenarios where I can prove your system is flawed


I think we all understand that STAT's/NUMBERS can be completely misleading
A reason why I feel Melo was overvalued here in NYK because of Woodson giving every shot/opportunity to Melo to generate STAT's and playing favorites for SET lineups/plays/roatations

What you say is more of a system that measures "VALUE" more than evaluating talent especially for GMs/Trades *etc* itself...
If you measure talents judged on NUMBERS, PLAYING TIME, and playing over other contracts were true,


Vucevic (which did not play at all in his rookie year)
Tobias Harris prior to going to Orlando where he got the opportunity to display his talents

Lin (prior to Linsanity)
Now on Houston, comparing Lin with Harden/Patrick Beverely instead but when either Harden/Beverely was out, Lin has shown his abilities

Fields and Novak's up and downs, depending on HOW THEY WERE UTILIZED and WHAT SYSTEM they played with along with the talents/philosophy of the team...


Gereld Green from Nets to Pacers where he got NO PT and didn't fit in the philosophy and wasn't utilized to his strengths but as soon as he was traded to Sun's he was very productive

Miles Plumlee who couldn't play behind Hibbert, Mahimi, David West, and he showed what he do when given the opportunity to play

Most importantly for the players from Pacer's to Suns, playing with a PG that pushes the tempo, with the ability to penetrate and finish, in addition to the capability of facilitating/initiating an OFFENSE/creating for others, also with other players that can play DEF and space the floor

Also for Bledsoe, who didn't have much of a role on the Clippers behind CP3, but when given the chance displayed his abilities

For Knicks,
Chandler was a BAD FIT with this roster
When either STAT/AB/Tyler/Alrich all played at C, the team played completely different because of their mobility/ability to score
Kmart's versatility and ability to DEFEND/REBOUND/even some post ups/finish/facilitate/ playing better PnR's/HELP DEFENSE etc, was the glue to Chandler/Iman with the rest of the team, with only Tyler only able to come close but he played much better at C

As I said earlier, Melo's STAT's were manipulated from the start, with Woodson's system or lack off
Tyler is another play with Alrich, who didn't get much opportunities to play and was given up by a few teams but they have shown they can play vital roles if given the chance
Why Tyler never got a chance for an expanded role, with Alrich, and Copeland despite showing their abilities? (Look back in the Tyler thread and see that he does EVERYTHING much better, allowing the team the play a different way with his abilities from athleticism/mobility/ability to finish/rebound/score/shoot, OFF REBOUND/challenge shots etc...

Why was Novak not utilized with double screens and the combination of player movement/screens off and off the ball/ and addition to penetration and MOVING THE BALL despite all the success that was shown when utilized correctly that helped him with that contract he has now?

Iman was horrible utilized and not developed to his strengths on a poor system with Woodson, in addition to his injury that set him back, he surely is NOT a SF


I am not saying that all these players all will be better than they are ranked, I am saying that they are better than their numbers, playing many other factors from coach/systems/ development/ roster and even others factors playing a role in the evaluation of talents

We're in a great place Knick fans...respect the yoots

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