Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!

They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.

I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.

why not? the bulls have been good the past 4 years with all types of injuries.. 62/50/45/48 those are the wins the last 4 seasons for the bulls, with injuries included... why would you not put stock into that team and record? our 54 wins was clearly an aberation. we have evidence of that from the prior season and now this past season...

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!

They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.

I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.

Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.

A healthy bulls team without carmelo can compete for an ECF...although I don't think much of carmelo, I don't think he can mess that up. they need scoring and although not too efficient carmelo can score.. they would still be an ECF contender with him. I agree.. Now people I am sure will spin this into "melo leading them to the ECF"... NO! He will just be another piece in that machine.. led by noah and rose and thibs.... I don't think carmelo will mess that up.. If he doesn't defend and share the ball, he will be on the bench. we have seen it before with guys like boozer, and noah not playing 4th quarters... and it didn't stop them from winning games..

the bulls need a scorer, carmelo may be a very expensive option, but nonetheless one that can help them.. just like Aflalo can help them.....

knicks1248 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!

They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.

I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.

Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.

A healthy bulls team without carmelo can compete for an ECF...although I don't think much of carmelo, I don't think he can mess that up. they need scoring and although not too efficient carmelo can score.. they would still be an ECF contender with him. I agree.. Now people I am sure will spin this into "melo leading them to the ECF"... NO! He will just be another piece in that machine.. led by noah and rose and thibs.... I don't think carmelo will mess that up.. If he doesn't defend and share the ball, he will be on the bench. we have seen it before with guys like boozer, and noah not playing 4th quarters... and it didn't stop them from winning games..

the bulls need a scorer, carmelo may be a very expensive option, but nonetheless one that can help them.. just like Aflalo can help them.....

Any fool who thinks Melo and Rose are good fit, clearly thinks their playing 2k14

I don't think carmelo is a good fit with a lot of teams, which is why we as well as denver had a hard time building a winner around this dude..

the point is, the bulls need some scoring, they also proved they can pretty much survive injuries and a lot of other things throw their way..

either carmelo fits or he rides the bench, but it should not derail what they can do as a team, they are already good without carmelo..

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!

They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.

I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.

Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.

A healthy bulls team without carmelo can compete for an ECF...although I don't think much of carmelo, I don't think he can mess that up. they need scoring and although not too efficient carmelo can score.. they would still be an ECF contender with him. I agree.. Now people I am sure will spin this into "melo leading them to the ECF"... NO! He will just be another piece in that machine.. led by noah and rose and thibs.... I don't think carmelo will mess that up.. If he doesn't defend and share the ball, he will be on the bench. we have seen it before with guys like boozer, and noah not playing 4th quarters... and it didn't stop them from winning games..

the bulls need a scorer, carmelo may be a very expensive option, but nonetheless one that can help them.. just like Aflalo can help them.....

Any fool who thinks Melo and Rose are good fit, clearly thinks their playing 2k14

I don't think carmelo is a good fit with a lot of teams, which is why we as well as denver had a hard time building a winner around this dude..

the point is, the bulls need some scoring, they also proved they can pretty much survive injuries and a lot of other things throw their way..

either carmelo fits or he rides the bench, but it should not derail what they can do as a team, they are already good without carmelo..

Yup.. the tfk logic is in full force today

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!

They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.

I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.

Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.

A healthy bulls team without carmelo can compete for an ECF...although I don't think much of carmelo, I don't think he can mess that up. they need scoring and although not too efficient carmelo can score.. they would still be an ECF contender with him. I agree.. Now people I am sure will spin this into "melo leading them to the ECF"... NO! He will just be another piece in that machine.. led by noah and rose and thibs.... I don't think carmelo will mess that up.. If he doesn't defend and share the ball, he will be on the bench. we have seen it before with guys like boozer, and noah not playing 4th quarters... and it didn't stop them from winning games..

the bulls need a scorer, carmelo may be a very expensive option, but nonetheless one that can help them.. just like Aflalo can help them.....

Any fool who thinks Melo and Rose are good fit, clearly thinks their playing 2k14

I don't think carmelo is a good fit with a lot of teams, which is why we as well as denver had a hard time building a winner around this dude..

the point is, the bulls need some scoring, they also proved they can pretty much survive injuries and a lot of other things throw their way..

either carmelo fits or he rides the bench, but it should not derail what they can do as a team, they are already good without carmelo..

So lets sum up. Denver misses the playoffs for 8 straight years. Drafts Melo. Every year is a winning season. Every year are playoffs. Your calling card is to dispell this by calling Melo a playoff looooooser and winning in the regular season doesnt mean jack. But the Bulls got bounced in round and "they are good"

Yup.. the tfk logic is in full force today

rose first year, bulls lose first round

year #2 bulls lose first round

year #3 CONFERENCE FINALS!!!!

YEAR #4 rose gets hurt they lose in first round..

year #5 no rose, conference semi finals

year #6 NO rose, first round exit...

Now what point are you trying to make here? bulls are good because they can lose their best player/ league MVP player and still compete in the playoffs.. when he is healthy they are a contender..

either you are trying to be a troll or pretending to be stupid.. I think you are trying to be a troll and lord please lets hope you are just pretending, although who knows...

carmelo is a playoff loser.... yes he is.. what do the bulls have to do with carmelo being a playoff loser...

fishmike, you present horrible arguments, they are emtion filled, I can see you now sweating ,pounding your key board, yelling " i got TKF now, I got him!!"

you come off as uninformed, you don't do research.... You should know better by now than to come at me with such a weak argument..

Pretty sure this is what Bonn meant when he says he thinks TKF is more knowloeda me than most

Don't always agree with TKF. Just giving credit where credit is do since some people feel TFK brings nothing but hate to the table

gunsnewing wrote:I appreciate any poster who takes the time to research. Puts you ahead of most in my book. Sometimes I'm to lazy to pull up the facts. I rely primarily on my memory which is intact. But I always appreciate the effort people make in digging up the facts

Pretty sure this is what Bonn meant when he says he thinks TKF is more knowloeda me than most

Don't always agree with TKF. Just giving credit where credit is do since some people feel TFK brings nothing but hate to the table

thanks guns, I had plenty of practice, there were some posters who used to force me to do research before I debate them.. if not you would get crushed. posters like dk, blueseats, 3G4G would force you to do research. blue seats comes to mind the most. Me and him used to have some doozies on realgm. we used to drive each other nuts, but that dude was on his GAME!! I have a ton of respect for him as he made me a better poster...

going off memory is fine as most of us have pretty good memory, but there comes a time when someone tries to call you out, goad you into a ridiculous flame war, that you can combat their emotion with facts and research..

as you said, you and I don't always agree and that is cool, what fun would it be if we agreed on everything... as long as we can carry on a respectful spirited debate I am all for it..

meloshouldgo wrote:Bulls just offered both picks, Gibson and Snell for Love. Guess Melo isn't as highly regarded as his fans make him or to be.

yikes!!! lets hope not. otherwise there is a chance he ends up back here...

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!

They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.

I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.

Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.

A healthy bulls team without carmelo can compete for an ECF...although I don't think much of carmelo, I don't think he can mess that up. they need scoring and although not too efficient carmelo can score.. they would still be an ECF contender with him. I agree.. Now people I am sure will spin this into "melo leading them to the ECF"... NO! He will just be another piece in that machine.. led by noah and rose and thibs.... I don't think carmelo will mess that up.. If he doesn't defend and share the ball, he will be on the bench. we have seen it before with guys like boozer, and noah not playing 4th quarters... and it didn't stop them from winning games..

the bulls need a scorer, carmelo may be a very expensive option, but nonetheless one that can help them.. just like Aflalo can help them.....

Any fool who thinks Melo and Rose are good fit, clearly thinks their playing 2k14

I don't think carmelo is a good fit with a lot of teams, which is why we as well as denver had a hard time building a winner around this dude..

the point is, the bulls need some scoring, they also proved they can pretty much survive injuries and a lot of other things throw their way..

either carmelo fits or he rides the bench, but it should not derail what they can do as a team, they are already good without carmelo..

So lets sum up. Denver misses the playoffs for 8 straight years. Drafts Melo. Every year is a winning season. Every year are playoffs. Your calling card is to dispell this by calling Melo a playoff looooooser and winning in the regular season doesnt mean jack. But the Bulls got bounced in round and "they are good"

Yup.. the tfk logic is in full force today

rose first year, bulls lose first round

year #2 bulls lose first round

year #3 CONFERENCE FINALS!!!!

YEAR #4 rose gets hurt they lose in first round..

year #5 no rose, conference semi finals

year #6 NO rose, first round exit...

Now what point are you trying to make here? bulls are good because they can lose their best player/ league MVP player and still compete in the playoffs.. when he is healthy they are a contender..

either you are trying to be a troll or pretending to be stupid.. I think you are trying to be a troll and lord please lets hope you are just pretending, although who knows...

carmelo is a playoff loser.... yes he is.. what do the bulls have to do with carmelo being a playoff loser...

fishmike, you present horrible arguments, they are emtion filled, I can see you now sweating ,pounding your key board, yelling " i got TKF now, I got him!!"

you come off as uninformed, you don't do research.... You should know better by now than to come at me with such a weak argument..

If Carmelo's Denver teams played in the east he would probably have played in the ECC multiple times. During Carmelo's Denver years 50 wins got you a 6-8th seed.

Chris Paul is as talented as Rose and arguably better and he hasn't been able to do much out West. Put that Clippers team in the East this yr and Paul goes to the Confrence Finals the first time for his career, possibly the finals if they play out of there mind.

yellowboy90 wrote:http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/23/carmelo-anthony-says-family-living-conditions-to-play-a-big-role-in-his-decision-on-next-team/

“(The average fans) don’t take into consideration the family aspect of it. Your livelihood, where you gonna be living at. Do you want your kids to grow up in that place, in that city? Do I want to spend the rest of my career in that situation, in that city. So all of that stuff comes into play. My son goes to school, he loves it here (in New York), To take him out and take him somewhere else, he has to learn that system all over again, he has to get new friends, and I know how hard it was for me when I moved from New York to Baltimore at a young age….

“As far as basketball goes, it’s hard to just say ‘I’m gonna go here’ or ‘I’m gonna make this decision or do that,’ because everybody’s effected by that. And the average person is looking at it as next year. Like it’s just one year. ‘Next year you win a championship if you go here.’ We’re looking at the big picture here now. We’re looking at the next six-to-eight years of your career, the end of your career at that. So do you want to spend that much time in that place?”

If this is really what he is thinking, then he is going to have a hard time making a choice. Injury and how draft choices play a big part and nobody can see how that unfolds.

WE just gutted our front office with the most successful coach in the history of the game who knows alot about winning.

I think Melo returns.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:its a bit funny to me Bonn.. you argue against the merits of signing MElo to a max contract, you go on about the faults in his game, yet:

Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.

you say that Melo is good enough to add to a team who has one star (Noah) a few solid role guys but cant get out of the first round, so add Melo and they can compete for a title.

kinda begs the flip side of the coin.. why not keep Melo, use cap space or expirings to put together a deal for a stud and go to the ECF or finals themselves? Why not go that route Bonn?

I do want to keep Melo - at a Duncan/Parker level salary.
I think he adds 5 or 6 wins and raises a team's playoff ceiling by about a round. That's not enough to justify a max contract, and certainly not in our case where everything else has to workout perfectly just to plausibly build a contender for Melo's 14th to 17th seasons.
For us to sign Melo to a max contract, the following would have to workout:
A) We build a very strong supporting cast. I'd give this alone maybe a 20% chance of working since most teams fail in this regard, and it will be even harder to do it in a 12 month period since we have almost no foundation right now.
B) Melo ages very well for his 14th to 17th seasons. This too is unlikely but possible.
The probability of both A and B working is the product of their individual likelihoods. In other words, it's extremely low.
For it to work for Chicago, point A is accomplished already, and they are looking to get key production from him starting right now (13th rather than 14th season). So it's a much better (or less bad) gamble for them.

And all that said, I still think their ceiling is just the ECF or potentially finals, which would still give me some hesitation to pull the deal from Chicago's perspective. (I never said I would do the deal if I ran Chicago; I only said that it could push them to a higher level within the east.)

This is exactly how I feel. I would not overpay for him, but I do think that at the right price he can push a team over the edge to winning.

However, his playoffs output and style still scare the hell out of me.