GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I knew about Melo doing research, didn't know about Thibs doing it as well. I'm glad Phil is here, I'd hate to think what would happen if Dolan (through Mills) was making these decisions. It gives me some hope that even if Melo leaves we will be OK by 2015.

Exactly. We would have been bad next year with or without melo. At least now we can get a good draft picks and then we have plenty if cap space for 2015. I mean melo si good but its not liek he is on lebron or durants level

He's not Durant or LeBron, but he's in the upper echelon in this league. Hopefully good enough to get us some good players and picks in return, and maybe some cap relief.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:if things don't work out with anthony then man, are we fortunate!

Not really, we are going to suck large for a long time...It will be time to tank and rebuild..JD didn't pay out 85 mil to rebuild for years to come...It will be interesting...

I dont think it will be bad. Next Year we have out pick and hopefully this year we get a few picks from a sign and trade with Melo. Then next season Phil will get us some free agents. It will be fine. I like Melo btu i think he is more of teh perfect second guy who can score

I think it will be bad for a long time again.
http://nypost.com/2014/06/22/track-record-shows-knicks-would-struggle-if-melo-goes/

Denver seemed to do fine

StarksEwing1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:if things don't work out with anthony then man, are we fortunate!

Not really, we are going to suck large for a long time...It will be time to tank and rebuild..JD didn't pay out 85 mil to rebuild for years to come...It will be interesting...

I dont think it will be bad. Next Year we have out pick and hopefully this year we get a few picks from a sign and trade with Melo. Then next season Phil will get us some free agents. It will be fine. I like Melo btu i think he is more of teh perfect second guy who can score

I think it will be bad for a long time again.
http://nypost.com/2014/06/22/track-record-shows-knicks-would-struggle-if-melo-goes/

Denver seemed to do fine

To be fair other than the 54 win season we werent exactly setting the world on fire with him on the tea. The first 2 years were barely made the playoffs and were outed easily in teh first round. The third year we did win 54 games although many player besides melo ahd career years that year. The last year we stunk.

So being the fair and balanced guy you claim to be..Would you say it's Melo or maybe Amare not 100% and Tyson with the flu or not just giving it his all..Both guys occupy 37 mil of a 57 mil cap team..What's your call??

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:if things don't work out with anthony then man, are we fortunate!

Not really, we are going to suck large for a long time...It will be time to tank and rebuild..JD didn't pay out 85 mil to rebuild for years to come...It will be interesting...

I dont think it will be bad. Next Year we have out pick and hopefully this year we get a few picks from a sign and trade with Melo. Then next season Phil will get us some free agents. It will be fine. I like Melo btu i think he is more of teh perfect second guy who can score

I think it will be bad for a long time again.
http://nypost.com/2014/06/22/track-record-shows-knicks-would-struggle-if-melo-goes/

Denver seemed to do fine

To be fair other than the 54 win season we werent exactly setting the world on fire with him on the tea. The first 2 years were barely made the playoffs and were outed easily in teh first round. The third year we did win 54 games although many player besides melo ahd career years that year. The last year we stunk.

So being the fair and balanced guy you claim to be..Would you say it's Melo or maybe Amare not 100% and Tyson with the flu or not just giving it his all..Both guys occupy 37 mil of a 57 mil cap team..What's your call??

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:if things don't work out with anthony then man, are we fortunate!

Not really, we are going to suck large for a long time...It will be time to tank and rebuild..JD didn't pay out 85 mil to rebuild for years to come...It will be interesting...

I dont think it will be bad. Next Year we have out pick and hopefully this year we get a few picks from a sign and trade with Melo. Then next season Phil will get us some free agents. It will be fine. I like Melo btu i think he is more of teh perfect second guy who can score

I think it will be bad for a long time again.
http://nypost.com/2014/06/22/track-record-shows-knicks-would-struggle-if-melo-goes/

Denver seemed to do fine

To be fair other than the 54 win season we werent exactly setting the world on fire with him on the tea. The first 2 years were barely made the playoffs and were outed easily in teh first round. The third year we did win 54 games although many player besides melo ahd career years that year. The last year we stunk.

So being the fair and balanced guy you claim to be..Would you say it's Melo or maybe Amare not 100% and Tyson with the flu or not just giving it his all..Both guys occupy 37 mil of a 57 mil cap team..What's your call??

Again not bashing the guy so dont take it that way. My Point is that if he leaves its not the end of ther world. The Knicks needs to add some youth and need to clear cap space for the next FA class

So again, being the fair and balanced guy you repeated claim to be for the last three years before take a shot a Melo..Would you say Melo is the reason for the poor team's performance or maybe Amare not being 100% and Tyson with the flu or not just giving it his all..Both guys occupy 37 mil of a 57 mil cap team...What's your call??

holfresh wrote:We will be a bad team for a long time...Many bad teams have picks and are able to sign FA..What makes us different??..Because we paid a GM 60 mil and a rookie Head Coach 25 mil...KLove is about to be traded to GS..GS don't want to give up Clay Thomspon or it's a done deal..Who else coming here to save the day???

The second Dolan over committed resources to this trade we were doomed. I think he also made a BIG mistake not taking Lowry for Felton and a 2018 pick. This is all on Dolan head to toe.

Clean wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:We will be a bad team for a long time...Many bad teams have picks and are able to sign FA..What makes us different??..Because we paid a GM 60 mil and a rookie Head Coach 25 mil...KLove is about to be traded to GS..GS don't want to give up Clay Thomspon or it's a done deal..Who else coming here to save the day???

The second Dolan over committed resources to this trade we were doomed. I think he also made a BIG mistake not taking Lowry for Felton and a 2018 pick. This is all on Dolan head to toe.

If we were to look at the facts as presented...Melo came here to play with Amare..If Amare was healthy and we had a decent coach not named MDA, we had a shot...We went through all this already...Was Gallo and Mozgov all that good, really??..We came to the conclusion that Wilson could not be resigned if we signed Melo as a free agent...JR was as productive as Gallo the last two years, no??Look at their stats...So are we really talking Mozgov doomed us, really??? We were poorly constructed under a poor coach and GM...We were doomed the moment we sign MDA who need Amare...

If Melo leaves then there is no way the trade can be anything but bad. We gave up assets we should not have had to give up. Those assets could have helped build around Melo. The amount of mistakes the Knicks have made were also staggering. I knew what Woody was about after watching him coach in his first playoffs with us. How did those rich people not see the Woody's limitations in coaching? Who the hell thought the Bargs trade was a good one? Who the heck signs Amare to that kind of deal? Who opts in Billups only to cut him a few weeks later with the Amnesty! This team is never anything but frustrating.

CrushAlot wrote:

Clean wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:We will be a bad team for a long time...Many bad teams have picks and are able to sign FA..What makes us different??..Because we paid a GM 60 mil and a rookie Head Coach 25 mil...KLove is about to be traded to GS..GS don't want to give up Clay Thomspon or it's a done deal..Who else coming here to save the day???

The second Dolan over committed resources to this trade we were doomed. I think he also made a BIG mistake not taking Lowry for Felton and a 2018 pick. This is all on Dolan head to toe.

If we were to look at the facts as presented...Melo came here to play with Amare..If Amare was healthy and we had a decent coach not named MDA, we had a shot...We went through all this already...Was Gallo and Mozgov all that good, really??..We came to the conclusion that Wilson could not be resigned if we signed Melo as a free agent...JR was as productive as Gallo the last two years, no??Look at their stats...So are we really talking Mozgov doomed us, really??? We were poorly constructed under a poor coach and GM...We were doomed the moment we sign MDA who need Amare...

If Melo leaves then there is no way the trade can be anything but bad. We gave up assets we should not have had to give up. Those assets could have helped build around Melo. The amount of mistakes the Knicks have made were also staggering. I knew what Woody was about after watching him coach in his first playoffs with us. How did those rich people not see the Woody's limitations in coaching? Who the hell thought the Bargs trade was a good one? Who the heck signs Amare to that kind of deal? Who opts in Billups only to cut him a few weeks later with the Amnesty! This team is never anything but frustrating.

Maybe I missed something in that first playoff run. The Knicks had lost their entire backcourt except for Bibby, Douglas and JR. Tyson was sick and Amare had the fire extinguisher incident. Not sure what coach fixes that mess. Was there something he did that made him look bad in that series? I remember game 1 starting off with horrible calls and I believe Baron had his career ending injury. I honestly don't remember anything about the coaching. Just everyone in the back court getting hurt. Oh and stat with his uninsured contract punching out the fire extinguisher and almost cutting a nerve that would have caused him to lose use of his hand.

Two days ago I bumped a thread from 2012 after the Heat series. In that thread a few other posters and I saw the problems that Woody had and would continue to have through his tenure as Knicks coach. The problem that some may have had is they looked at the wrong things. We had bad luck with injuries but I looked at what Woodson was doing. He made a ton of mistakes like he always does.

This is the Post I made on 5/10/2012:

Clean wrote:I like what Woody did during the regular season. My problem with him is he forgets to run plays for other people besides Melo. He is not good making adjustments in the playoffs. We made the same mistakes every game with the exception being that melo got the ball on the wing a little more. The team had no idea how to use a damn zone! The one thing that can be kryptonite to the heat and we could not use it. Don't get me wrong, if a clear upgrade is not available I would love to have woody back. I just hope woody grows as a coach.

holfresh wrote:

Clean wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:We will be a bad team for a long time...Many bad teams have picks and are able to sign FA..What makes us different??..Because we paid a GM 60 mil and a rookie Head Coach 25 mil...KLove is about to be traded to GS..GS don't want to give up Clay Thomspon or it's a done deal..Who else coming here to save the day???

The second Dolan over committed resources to this trade we were doomed. I think he also made a BIG mistake not taking Lowry for Felton and a 2018 pick. This is all on Dolan head to toe.

If we were to look at the facts as presented...Melo came here to play with Amare..If Amare was healthy and we had a decent coach not named MDA, we had a shot...We went through all this already...Was Gallo and Mozgov all that good, really??..We came to the conclusion that Wilson could not be resigned if we signed Melo as a free agent...JR was as productive as Gallo the last two years, no??Look at their stats...So are we really talking Mozgov doomed us, really??? We were poorly constructed under a poor coach and GM...We were doomed the moment we sign MDA who need Amare...

If Melo leaves then there is no way the trade can be anything but bad. We gave up assets we should not have had to give up. Those assets could have helped build around Melo. The amount of mistakes the Knicks have made were also staggering. I knew what Woody was about after watching him coach in his first playoffs with us. How did those rich people not see the Woody's limitations in coaching? Who the hell thought the Bargs trade was a good one? Who the heck signs Amare to that kind of deal? Who opts in Billups only to cut him a few weeks later with the Amnesty! This team is never anything but frustrating.

Please specify what assets u are referring to...People use this term to hide the facts when presenting their slanted arguments...So Gallo and Melo could have overcame Amare's knee problems??..If we re-uped Gallo at 12 mil per then we have no Tyson...Who is defending the paint on MDA's team???..Are u saying that Gallo would have given us better production than JR?? The stats says otherwise...

Assets are: Not going to count Wilson since he would be gone anyway.
Gallo
Kostas Papanikolaou : Used to reaquire Felton
Giorgos Printezis : Used to reaquire Felton
2016 Second Round Draft Pick : used to require Felton
Cash: Used to require Felton(Could no longer use that money to buy a draft pick in following draft due to new CBA)
Mozgov: With Mozgov we don't make that Camby trade and lose more assets.
2014 First Round Draft Pick
2 Second Round Draft Picks
Right to Swap 2016 First Round Draft Pick
Amnesty: If we don't have Billups we would still have the Amnesty to use on Amare.

If you think those assets are insignificant then we will never agree on that issue. We could have had melo and all of these assets.

CrushAlot wrote:

Clean wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Clean wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:We will be a bad team for a long time...Many bad teams have picks and are able to sign FA..What makes us different??..Because we paid a GM 60 mil and a rookie Head Coach 25 mil...KLove is about to be traded to GS..GS don't want to give up Clay Thomspon or it's a done deal..Who else coming here to save the day???

The second Dolan over committed resources to this trade we were doomed. I think he also made a BIG mistake not taking Lowry for Felton and a 2018 pick. This is all on Dolan head to toe.

If we were to look at the facts as presented...Melo came here to play with Amare..If Amare was healthy and we had a decent coach not named MDA, we had a shot...We went through all this already...Was Gallo and Mozgov all that good, really??..We came to the conclusion that Wilson could not be resigned if we signed Melo as a free agent...JR was as productive as Gallo the last two years, no??Look at their stats...So are we really talking Mozgov doomed us, really??? We were poorly constructed under a poor coach and GM...We were doomed the moment we sign MDA who need Amare...

If Melo leaves then there is no way the trade can be anything but bad. We gave up assets we should not have had to give up. Those assets could have helped build around Melo. The amount of mistakes the Knicks have made were also staggering. I knew what Woody was about after watching him coach in his first playoffs with us. How did those rich people not see the Woody's limitations in coaching? Who the hell thought the Bargs trade was a good one? Who the heck signs Amare to that kind of deal? Who opts in Billups only to cut him a few weeks later with the Amnesty! This team is never anything but frustrating.

Maybe I missed something in that first playoff run. The Knicks had lost their entire backcourt except for Bibby, Douglas and JR. Tyson was sick and Amare had the fire extinguisher incident. Not sure what coach fixes that mess. Was there something he did that made him look bad in that series? I remember game 1 starting off with horrible calls and I believe Baron had his career ending injury. I honestly don't remember anything about the coaching. Just everyone in the back court getting hurt. Oh and stat with his uninsured contract punching out the fire extinguisher and almost cutting a nerve that would have caused him to lose use of his hand.

Two days ago I bumped a thread from 2012 after the Heat series. In that thread a few other posters and I saw the problems that Woody had and would continue to have through his tenure as Knicks coach. The problem that some may have had is they looked at the wrong things. We had bad luck with injuries but I looked at what Woodson was doing. He made a ton of mistakes like he always does.

This is the Post I made on 5/10/2012:

Clean wrote:I like what Woody did during the regular season. My problem with him is he forgets to run plays for other people besides Melo. He is not good making adjustments in the playoffs. We made the same mistakes every game with the exception being that melo got the ball on the wing a little more. The team had no idea how to use a damn zone! The one thing that can be kryptonite to the heat and we could not use it. Don't get me wrong, if a clear upgrade is not available I would love to have woody back. I just hope woody grows as a coach.

I think in that series he didn't have anyone left. JR had just gotten to NY and I think Bibby was the second option for at least one game.

Yes that is correct, but it does not change the mistakes Woodson made himself. This was proven by the fact that with a full roster in the following years he made the same exact mistakes! I understood that we were hit with injuries but I was able to compartmentalize the issues we had and saw that Woodson was adding to the problems.