Vmart wrote:

Papabear wrote:

arkrud wrote:I think this will come to personality issues.
Melo need to make up his mind on who will be the boss.
If he want to be in control he need to go and sign with some inferior team and run the show himself.
If he want to eat his ego and go for the title under Zen leadership he have to stay and take less money.
My guess he would want to be Melo... not sure he can change by the way. He is grown man.
So by-by our scoring champion.

Papabear Says

Why do you guys keep thinking Jackson is some kind of God!! He had Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, plus others. Now grant you he got them all to play together. Had the Zen master won it all when MJ left the team to play baseball then I would say Phil is the greatest of greatest. He didn't win it all. However when MJ came back they won it all again so who was the Zen Master Phil or Jordan?? It was Jordan.
Phil will need the best players in the game in order to compete. End of story.

Why do you think there is no life after Melo? Beside Jordan retired the Bulls went to the conference finals imagine losing 32 points per game and still getting to the conference finals. If not for a bailout by refs on the Hubert Davis shot the Bulls are in the finals as a Knicks fan I loved the call by the refs but couldn't believe the call.

Papabear Says

I never said there's no life after Melo. I've been waiting over 40 years for another championship. I just don't think Phil Jackson have the health and energy he had with Chicago and Los Angeles. He has health problems and that can cloud your thinking. He said he had an agreement with Kerr and Kerr said he didn't agree to coach the Knicks. We have no draft picks this year and now he gets Odoms the head case he signed. Basketball has changed in the past 5 years. Why should Melo be the only one to take a pay hit? I see Jackson sure didn't take a hit. Maybe Jackson should renegotiate his contract and take 8 million instead of 12 million and give some of that money to the inner city kids.
If I was Melo I would join the heat and let james Wade and bosh opt out and fix the pay so Melo can play with them. Pat Riley would have never said the things to the press about Melo the way Jackson did so if you think the Zen Master will build this team to a championship level he needs to start thinking like a GM instead of it all about him. I hope Melo leaves because I know Miami will appreciate him better than a lot of you guys here. I will still be a Knicks fan even if it takes another 40 years to win the big one. I just don't think Jackson is physically and mentally up to the task. Now I could be wrong and I hope that I am wrong.

Papabear wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Papabear wrote:

arkrud wrote:I think this will come to personality issues.
Melo need to make up his mind on who will be the boss.
If he want to be in control he need to go and sign with some inferior team and run the show himself.
If he want to eat his ego and go for the title under Zen leadership he have to stay and take less money.
My guess he would want to be Melo... not sure he can change by the way. He is grown man.
So by-by our scoring champion.

Papabear Says

Why do you guys keep thinking Jackson is some kind of God!! He had Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, plus others. Now grant you he got them all to play together. Had the Zen master won it all when MJ left the team to play baseball then I would say Phil is the greatest of greatest. He didn't win it all. However when MJ came back they won it all again so who was the Zen Master Phil or Jordan?? It was Jordan.
Phil will need the best players in the game in order to compete. End of story.

Why do you think there is no life after Melo? Beside Jordan retired the Bulls went to the conference finals imagine losing 32 points per game and still getting to the conference finals. If not for a bailout by refs on the Hubert Davis shot the Bulls are in the finals as a Knicks fan I loved the call by the refs but couldn't believe the call.

Papabear Says

I never said there's no life after Melo. I've been waiting over 40 years for another championship. I just don't think Phil Jackson have the health and energy he had with Chicago and Los Angeles. He has health problems and that can cloud your thinking. He said he had an agreement with Kerr and Kerr said he didn't agree to coach the Knicks. We have no draft picks this year and now he gets Odoms the head case he signed. Basketball has changed in the past 5 years. Why should Melo be the only one to take a pay hit? I see Jackson sure didn't take a hit. Maybe Jackson should renegotiate his contract and take 8 million instead of 12 million and give some of that money to the inner city kids.
If I was Melo I would join the heat and let james Wade and bosh opt out and fix the pay so Melo can play with them. Pat Riley would have never said the things to the press about Melo the way Jackson did so if you think the Zen Master will build this team to a championship level he needs to start thinking like a GM instead of it all about him. I hope Melo leaves because I know Miami will appreciate him better than a lot of you guys here. I will still be a Knicks fan even if it takes another 40 years to win the big one. I just don't think Jackson is physically and mentally up to the task. Now I could be wrong and I hope that I am wrong.

See your afraid that Phil will scare Melo away. I don't see it that way if Melo leaves he was never serious about winning because he has someone who has 13 rings telling him what to do. Join forces with Miami yeah please go to Miami and take $8 million to play with the heat take a 60% pay cut and tell Wade, Bosh and James to take a bigger cut than they already did. Miami likes winning sure they do but not at the price they would be giving into to add Melo. Ultimately they are still in it for a paycheck.

Melo would most certainly be able to win quicker with another team like the Rockets but hopefully if that does happen the Knicks can benefit from any trade that would likely have to be made. This isn't a time to be a negative Knicks fan. These are good days regardless of what Melo decides. A great culture lasts longer than just one player who is already 30. Phil is thinking about the present and the future. If Melo stays the present will be much more competitive and if not then we rebuild in 2015 anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:We want stars of course, but there are role players who aren't stars who are among the best in the league that category. I guess opting in would give Jackson the flexibility to build a team from top to bottom with not only another star, but some of the best role players in the league, instead of that third star.

We might not have a big three, but maybe we could build a deeper squad with a deeper bench. I believe OKC is learning the hard way that you need a deep bench to win a ring. Both Miami and San Antonio have them.

Miami really only has a big 2-1/2. Bosh is a very good complement to Lebron and Wade, but he's not really on their level and it doesn't really matter. The Knicks could develop a 3rd key player which isn't out of the question at all. This team could focus on quality depth and a balanced roster, which is much more attainable than trying to load up top heavy with 3 All Stars. I think Phil sees that as a legit goal.

Phil has to figure out what this team needs after he gets Melo back and it's not an easy fix. Since he's gonna change the way this team plays he has to build a roster that can flourish in the Triangle. The needed skills and positions to put around Melo if he was to opt in would be easier to figure out and achieve. I just don't know if it's realistic to expect Melo to see the logic of opting in. Especially since Melo has been looking forward to this Free Agent tour for years now. Can he see the bigger picture despite the ego stroking players have come to enjoy in this current style of NBA All Stars having their Lebron moment.

Phil will build the right combination if role players next year and get the team back to the playoffs with it without melo.

The re key is getting over the hump in 2015

The team is still the core that won 54.

If Kidd was really the coach, that's all we need is a coach.
If Rasheed Wallace, Novak and Kurt Thomas were the glue, Phil's 11 rings can find similar glue players.

I still remember 2013. I feel Phil will more then fill in the missing gaps to get us back in the playoffs solidly.

Melo opts in, he can be a part of it.

He opts out, he may end up on Chicago, lakers or Houston.

All first round casualties or nowhere near playoffs.

Unless he is planning to take $10 mill to join a try contender, it's opt in, keep his paycheck and be a free agent the following year.

Join a contender for $6 mill. Get a ring.

Opt out now and it's more of the same.

Either way, I have to trust Phil.

Papabear wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Papabear wrote:

arkrud wrote:I think this will come to personality issues.
Melo need to make up his mind on who will be the boss.
If he want to be in control he need to go and sign with some inferior team and run the show himself.
If he want to eat his ego and go for the title under Zen leadership he have to stay and take less money.
My guess he would want to be Melo... not sure he can change by the way. He is grown man.
So by-by our scoring champion.

Papabear Says

Why do you guys keep thinking Jackson is some kind of God!! He had Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, plus others. Now grant you he got them all to play together. Had the Zen master won it all when MJ left the team to play baseball then I would say Phil is the greatest of greatest. He didn't win it all. However when MJ came back they won it all again so who was the Zen Master Phil or Jordan?? It was Jordan.
Phil will need the best players in the game in order to compete. End of story.

Why do you think there is no life after Melo? Beside Jordan retired the Bulls went to the conference finals imagine losing 32 points per game and still getting to the conference finals. If not for a bailout by refs on the Hubert Davis shot the Bulls are in the finals as a Knicks fan I loved the call by the refs but couldn't believe the call.

Papabear Says

I never said there's no life after Melo. I've been waiting over 40 years for another championship. I just don't think Phil Jackson have the health and energy he had with Chicago and Los Angeles. He has health problems and that can cloud your thinking. He said he had an agreement with Kerr and Kerr said he didn't agree to coach the Knicks. We have no draft picks this year and now he gets Odoms the head case he signed. Basketball has changed in the past 5 years. Why should Melo be the only one to take a pay hit? I see Jackson sure didn't take a hit. Maybe Jackson should renegotiate his contract and take 8 million instead of 12 million and give some of that money to the inner city kids.
If I was Melo I would join the heat and let james Wade and bosh opt out and fix the pay so Melo can play with them. Pat Riley would have never said the things to the press about Melo the way Jackson did so if you think the Zen Master will build this team to a championship level he needs to start thinking like a GM instead of it all about him. I hope Melo leaves because I know Miami will appreciate him better than a lot of you guys here. I will still be a Knicks fan even if it takes another 40 years to win the big one. I just don't think Jackson is physically and mentally up to the task. Now I could be wrong and I hope that I am wrong.

Papa,

Very assumptive about Phil given you don't know him personally, how he feels, and putting all in on the Kerr hiring.

Now, I don't know anything to dispute your claim as fact just that your making assumptions based on your "feelings" from media sources? I realize its all we got but as a fan I make one assumption and that your read a lot, and can think for yourself.

One can take the coach hiring as perhaps Phil being "patient, not entirely transparent and with a clear vision of what he wants and willing to accept the consequences of disappointment in his persuit". As a fan you take it as "bad health, declining energy and motivation".

BTW, its apparent, there is a spending spree on coaches (kerr getting 25mil) and phil (60mil) as owners have the money to spend as the teams soar in valuation. Every playoff game is a million dollar profit at home BTW!!!

And no, the players don't get to enjoy the benefits of valuation increase but they do on revenue and that continues to increase as well!

Phil won't take a pay cut because his salary is not on the cap.

There are fewer stars these days to chase in free agency so the starphuch system is one we can't rely on anymore.

Seems like your preparing for Melo to leave and guarding your emotions.

SAS and Miami are hold overs from the previous era. How do you build a champion going forward?
Im really now sure, but seems to me SAS did it with Chemistry and continuence and Miami with Lebron.

Gotta give Lebron big cred, he is the Man.