Don't sleep on Phil. This is just a theory. Phil already had his plan but if he is going to do this Shump at the point makes a ton of sense.

Jr Smith if he had his head on straight is a fantastic ball handler and passer. Melo can handle and pass as well when given the opportunity. In the triangle he will have no choice but to move the ball. He'll still get his points but he will get them a whole lot easier until he needs to take over.

Amare will get alot of dunks and layups as well as the triangle opens alot of angles for him to operate.

Stop complaining as see the concepts for what it is and how this can really work for us.

Phil still needs to add players but I think that he will more likely need to bring in role guys to be antagonists and do the dirty work and protect everyone.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Dagger wrote:Shump is just not a good player, used to like him, but it seems he can't do much of anything. Can't handle the ball, no court vision, can't finish around the rim, can't shoot anymore. He's a decent rebounder and an alright on-ball defender which makes him a bottom of the rotation guy. I can only hope he looks more like his second year next season, otherwise he's not long for this team.

Forget the team. He's not long for the league if he doesn't show improvement. The NBDL and Europe is littered with 6'4" to 6'7" guys with good athleticism who weren't able to put it together in the NBA. This is a huge year for Shump regardless of who the new coach is.

he deserves a real shot and i hope he gets it.

dk7th wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Dagger wrote:Shump is just not a good player, used to like him, but it seems he can't do much of anything. Can't handle the ball, no court vision, can't finish around the rim, can't shoot anymore. He's a decent rebounder and an alright on-ball defender which makes him a bottom of the rotation guy. I can only hope he looks more like his second year next season, otherwise he's not long for this team.

Forget the team. He's not long for the league if he doesn't show improvement. The NBDL and Europe is littered with 6'4" to 6'7" guys with good athleticism who weren't able to put it together in the NBA. This is a huge year for Shump regardless of who the new coach is.

he deserves a real shot and i hope he gets it.

Real shot?
Shump has been given everything on a silver platter. Starting job again and again. Problem with Shump goes beyond basketball. He lacks mental toughness, his skill level is being held back by bigger issues, issues that stem from his Injury. He needs to get over his injury.

Get back in the gym and comeback with better attitude and mentally strong. If he pulls the crap he pulled this year he won't be a Knick to long.

Vmart wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Dagger wrote:Shump is just not a good player, used to like him, but it seems he can't do much of anything. Can't handle the ball, no court vision, can't finish around the rim, can't shoot anymore. He's a decent rebounder and an alright on-ball defender which makes him a bottom of the rotation guy. I can only hope he looks more like his second year next season, otherwise he's not long for this team.

Forget the team. He's not long for the league if he doesn't show improvement. The NBDL and Europe is littered with 6'4" to 6'7" guys with good athleticism who weren't able to put it together in the NBA. This is a huge year for Shump regardless of who the new coach is.

he deserves a real shot and i hope he gets it.

Real shot?
Shump has been given everything on a silver platter. Starting job again and again. Problem with Shump goes beyond basketball. He lacks mental toughness, his skill level is being held back by bigger issues, issues that stem from his Injury. He needs to get over his injury.

Get back in the gym and comeback with better attitude and mentally strong. If he pulls the crap he pulled this year he won't be a Knick to long.

his best season was his first playing for mike d'antoni in a system.

since that time the franchise has pretty much meandered while failing to cohere into something resembling a pro team.

"silver platter" have you actually been following this farce?

dk7th wrote:

Vmart wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Dagger wrote:Shump is just not a good player, used to like him, but it seems he can't do much of anything. Can't handle the ball, no court vision, can't finish around the rim, can't shoot anymore. He's a decent rebounder and an alright on-ball defender which makes him a bottom of the rotation guy. I can only hope he looks more like his second year next season, otherwise he's not long for this team.

Forget the team. He's not long for the league if he doesn't show improvement. The NBDL and Europe is littered with 6'4" to 6'7" guys with good athleticism who weren't able to put it together in the NBA. This is a huge year for Shump regardless of who the new coach is.

he deserves a real shot and i hope he gets it.

Real shot?
Shump has been given everything on a silver platter. Starting job again and again. Problem with Shump goes beyond basketball. He lacks mental toughness, his skill level is being held back by bigger issues, issues that stem from his Injury. He needs to get over his injury.

Get back in the gym and comeback with better attitude and mentally strong. If he pulls the crap he pulled this year he won't be a Knick to long.

his best season was his first playing for mike d'antoni in a system.

since that time the franchise has pretty much meandered while failing to cohere into something resembling a pro team.

"silver platter" have you actually been following this farce?

If that is his best season then the guy really sucks. Also, his best season was his second year which is still sad. Each year he wasted time. The first year he was wasted trying to be a point and the second year he was coming of injury, and his third year he wasted time sulking.

The one thing he has done is improve his rebounding every year which is something Phil will like.

IMO what is more important is a Point Forward in this system. Having other guys who can handle the ball is very key. I think that's why PJax is checking out a player like Odom. Forwards that can handle and pass are very useful to the Triangle. It's good to have big defensive Guards in the game and that's what Harper gave them. They played without a prototypical PG.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Once again i'm reading a lot of what he did and not a lot of what the OP is talking about in terms of how Shump would fit into a Triangle system. No matter how many times it's pointed out with clarity that the Triangle isn't in need of a Ball Dominant PG with great court vision, still guys don't get it. As I pointed out many times, if Ron Harper could play point then Shump can.

IMO what is more important is a Point Forward in this system. Having other guys who can handle the ball is very key. I think that's why PJax is checking out a player like Odom. Forwards that can handle and pass are very useful to the Triangle. It's good to have big defensive Guards in the game and that's what Harper gave them. They played without a prototypical PG.

Reports are that back in January the Knicks and PJax were negotiating roles/terms and Phil said he wouldn't coach. Shump would have been traded at the deadline if he didn't get hurt. I know Phil wants Felton gone but if he was a big Shump guy would he be in play at the deadline.

nixluva wrote:Once again i'm reading a lot of what he did and not a lot of what the OP is talking about in terms of how Shump would fit into a Triangle system. No matter how many times it's pointed out with clarity that the Triangle isn't in need of a Ball Dominant PG with great court vision, still guys don't get it. As I pointed out many times, if Ron Harper could play point then Shump can.

IMO what is more important is a Point Forward in this system. Having other guys who can handle the ball is very key. I think that's why PJax is checking out a player like Odom. Forwards that can handle and pass are very useful to the Triangle. It's good to have big defensive Guards in the game and that's what Harper gave them. They played without a prototypical PG.

I dont think I ever disagreed with you, ever

CrushAlot wrote:

Shump has played in a 192 nba games but his salad days were the first 42 games of his nba career when the team was 6 games under .500 and didn't look like it had a chance of making the playoffs? From Shump's scouting report on draftnet:

Weaknesses: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...

http://nbadraft.net/players/iman-shumpert
Three years in and most of the faults pointed out are still very evident in his game.

Yup, its almost like reading a review of his pro game. I agree with those who say its a make or break year for Shump. Knee or no knee, it amazes me that he still cant consistently get to the rim with his athletic ability, or know when to shoot, pass, or drive. I believe he will be around the league for a few years, but if Iman's game doesn't improve he is going to find himself further and further down the bench.

I still believe Shump could be a top flight SG if he applied himself and was as passionate about improving his game as he is about his image.