BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:Scoring PG is a PG that averages over 20 a game. Chris Paul can be a scoring PG but opts to reduce his production to get teammates involved. Isiah Thomas was a scoring PG during the time the Pistons were going to finals his average had dipped below 20 points per game. Majic was always around 19 points per game. Magic could easily have averaged more but for the good of the team he concentrated on getting teammates involved. His level of efficiency was high 50%+ fg. Tony Parker averaged 20 last year but usually he is around 17 points per. He can score more but opts not to.

I still consider Parker more of a score first guard. It's just that Pop, in his infinite wisdom, has followed a strict minutes plan for his big 3. The improvement of Patty Mills has allowed Pop to restrict Parker to about 30 minutes a game during the regular season.

What gets lost is Parker's efficiency. He is doing his scoring on a low amounts of shots.

knicks1248 wrote:the spurs ball movement is like no other in the league, parker is just like billups was in detroit, knowing when to score when to pass, and since the ball moves quite well in San an, his assist are going to be relatively low since his pass leads to another pass for a wide open shot.

exactly-- walt frazier is my favorite point guard all time but his assists were never that high because he played on teams back in that era that prized teamwork predicated on passing and cutting. clearly the precursor to the spurs we see today.

tony parker's ballhandling is without equal today and that includes nash and chris paul. what is missed about parker is that in spite of relatively low assist numbers he is still a sublime orchestrator if for no other reason he is able to maintain his dribble like nash used to do.

knicks1248 wrote:

Rookie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:A whole lot of talent and energy, but will never win a ring until he's a role player or changes his mind set, he's melo at a different position

When was the last time a scoring PG guided his team to a title. He reminds me of marbury when he was in minny and then with the Nets.

Between westbrooks and kyrie, im not sure who's going to get it first or if ever, but it's such a waist of talent, just like marbury(without the attitude).

More than likely it's going to take a coach and a system(this goes for melo too) to turn these type of players mind set around. I personally don't like scoring pg's, they never win when it matters the most.

Unfortunately that type of play starts all the way back in AAU ball before they are even teens. He scores and defends, coaches aren't telling him to pass the ball. NYK would be lucky to have him....but he ain't gonna change. I don't think he is the problem on that team.

You insert Westbrook (a guard who can score and defend) with JR, Melo, Stat and Chandler and we'd win 50+ games easy

will win 50+ regular season games, and lose in the playoffs

The dunk was great, but he just went 1 on 5, your pg...

so you agree. Adding/changing one player on the Knicks can add 15+ wins on your season. I'd call that an impact player, one we'd be lucky to get.

Westbrook is a low IQ team player that rather drive than shoot. Would still be way better than any guard we have, but it's not critical in this system which can turn roll players into stars.

blkexec wrote:The good thing about the triangle is that the your protypical pg is not needed. High IQ players that can shoot and pass are more important.

Westbrook is a low IQ team player that rather drive than shoot. Would still be way better than any guard we have, but it's not critical in this system which can turn roll players into stars.

Agree but at what price? I think his value is much higher than his worth.

blkexec wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I like him- I hate the way people give Durant a pass and blame Westbrook every playoffs. Westbrook has had some monster games and hit some crazy clutch shots in these playoffs. Why don't you look at how the rest of the Thunder players are playing.

Westbrook has a school yard game....same with Durrant and reggie jackson. They need a structured system to elevate their game.

I would agree. Westbrook is a talented yet scattered player that plays with too much emotion and Durant really needs a post game so that he can get doubled more and get his teammates more open looks.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:the spurs ball movement is like no other in the league, parker is just like billups was in detroit, knowing when to score when to pass, and since the ball moves quite well in San an, his assist are going to be relatively low since his pass leads to another pass for a wide open shot.

exactly-- walt frazier is my favorite point guard all time but his assists were never that high because he played on teams back in that era that prized teamwork predicated on passing and cutting. clearly the precursor to the spurs we see today.

tony parker's ballhandling is without equal today and that includes nash and chris paul. what is missed about parker is that in spite of relatively low assist numbers he is still a sublime orchestrator if for no other reason he is able to maintain his dribble like nash used to do.

Kyrie Irving is tops...

tony parker doesn't waste moves or hold the ball....that's the difference in winning and losing at the pg spot

mreinman wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

mreinman wrote:

blkexec wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I like him- I hate the way people give Durant a pass and blame Westbrook every playoffs. Westbrook has had some monster games and hit some crazy clutch shots in these playoffs. Why don't you look at how the rest of the Thunder players are playing.

Westbrook has a school yard game....same with Durrant and reggie jackson. They need a structured system to elevate their game.

I would agree. Westbrook is a talented yet scattered player that plays with too much emotion and Durant really needs a post game so that he can get doubled more and get his teammates more open looks.

Are you saying that they need a real coach? Scottie Brooks coaching style is a work in progress. The team also had some bad luck this year with the Ibaka injury. What happened to Perry Jones's development. Adams is year or two away from being dependable and Jeremy Lamb has disappeared. Someone has to shoot on that team!

I don't know if its the coaches fault but why does Durant not post up Tony Allen who he has 6-8 inches on? And someone has to slow Westbrook down when he is not shooting well.

Bad luck with Ibaka but the coach needs some blame too. Not sure how much he actually deserves.

It's not the coach.....but the gm that hired him. Once you understand you have a team full of school yard talent.....u don't hire a rookie coach with an unproven system. You hire a vet coach that has an offensive structure for that raw talent. They hired Scott Brooks for his defensive culture and figured offense wouldn't be an issue. Well that was a risky move that only works during the regular season. Even without ibaka, they are too deep to not make up for his defense and offense. But from what I've seen, they would've lost anyway, even if they were 100% healthy.

Until durants game matures and he develops a post game....His game will be all jumpers and fast break points. And with a rookie coach, they will continue to play school yard ball. Dribble...dribble....dribble...shoot. that's all they do. While the other player just waits their turn to do the same thing. I guarantee you there next win will be because of some kind of offensive plan with buy in from their superstar chuckers.

The best thing for Durrant is to come to ny...coached by Fisher and phills triangle system. School yard ball doesn't work in the playoffs against the spurs. Unless u have Lebron on your team. Then u might have a chance. Durrant is too one dimensional. Westbrook is predictable. If they don't score in transition. ...They loose. And the spurs are too structured to allow unforced TOs....which is what OKC feed on.