NYKBocker wrote:You think Celtics will give away G. Wallace, Joel Anthony, Jeff Green and Brandon Bass for Amare?

You think Nuggets will give away Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Arthur, Lil Nate for Tyson and Jeff Green?

We only give Tyson, Amare, Bargs and Pablo and we get Gallo, Asik, Lin, The Mayor, Mozgov, G Wallace, Joel Anthony and Arthur? Do we get multiple picks too?

The basketball gods must love us then.

When did Gerald Wallace and Joel Anthony become anything more than bad contracts? And when did Jeff Green become anything more than an overglorified, overpaid role player? All 3 have been rumored to be on the block for the Celtics and only Brandon Bass was rumored to be able to draw assets in return.

And personally, I do think the Nuggets would give up that package for Jeff Green and Tyson Chandler. As I said before, Green is a comparable player to Wilson Chandler and Gallo but healthier. Chandler is an upgrade over Mozgov in most NBA circles (not my opinion though) and would serve more purpose for them as a mentor to McGee.

As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal, explain to me why these trades are not viable based on the market standards of the league.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:You want a guy who has averaged 3 assists per game for his career as our starting PG? That is the worst passing starting 5 in NBA history.

Ron Harper averaged 3.9apg for his career, playing 4 seasons as Phil Jackson's PG. He has 4 rings to show for it.

As for the rest of the team, the Nuggets seemed to be good at moving the ball. I'm not sure why that would now become an issue, considering that we'd have half their team.

Geeeez - he was not the PG. Pippen and Jordan were - where do you think the assists came from?

OJ (3), Shump (2), Gallo (1.9) and Melo (3), Moz (0.5)

Sometimes I am not sure if you are kidding.

If you look at any official listing of those Bulls/Lakers starting lineups, Ron Harper is slated at "PG" spot. As I've said several dozen times, the PG in the triangle does not fulfill the prototypical role of a PG. That was the case for Ron Harper. That would be the case for OJ Mayo and why you, pointing out his assist per game numbers, makes no sense.

And to be fair, the numbers you are listing involve players, playing for different teams, in systems that are not the triangle. They are not bad passers, I just don't think they've been put in a system where they are responsible for consistently creating shots for others. Before Phil came along as head coach, Scottie Pippen averaged 2.1apg and 3.5apg. With Phil, he averaged 6.4apg for his career. Who is to say that guys like Melo and Gallo couldn't step their games up in that respect?

Ron Harper's assists went down a lot when he joined the triangle. He was averaging 5.5 on the clippers.

You are just going to assume that all these low rate assist men will now be zenified?

As I have said numerous times, we should be looking for highly efficient diamonds and picks not OJ Mayo's and their bloated salaries.

Yes, Ron Harper was a ball dominant all-star at the SG position who had the opportunities to pad his stats. Mayo, on the other hand, has been an off the ball SG, who had to differ his ball handling opportunities to all-stars Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph in Memphis. In Dallas, he managed to have a career high 4.4apg, while having more of an opportunity to handle the ball and orchestrate the offense, despite differing to both Dirk Nowitzki and Darren Collision. The fact is that the guy is a pretty good passer and can rack up assists if the ball is actually in his hands. On a team like the Knicks, I see him exceeding his career high in that respect because of the nature of the system and make-up of the team.

And you keep trying to characterize Mayo as being some type of inefficient scorer, despite the numbers not reflecting that. If you ignore his performance with the Bucks, an aberration by his standards, you'd see that Mayo would actually rank among the best as far as PG's are concerned. Presuming that his range would be somewhere between 54.0TS%-55.6TS%, he would be on par with such guys as Tony Parker (55.8%), Ty Lawson (55.3%), Mike Conley (54.5%), Russell Westbrook (54.5%) and superior to such all-stars as Kyrie Irving (53.3%), John Wall (52.3%) and Jrue Holiday (50.5%).

You keep mentioning how we need to find "efficient diamonds in the rough" but those kind of guys don't exist. With everyone using advanced metrics and projections, the market value will begin to reflect the players actual value, so don't expect us to make any steals. Who we need to be looking for are guys that are being misused and who are underperforming that can excel in our system if given the opportunity. Mayo is that kind of guy.

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:You think Celtics will give away G. Wallace, Joel Anthony, Jeff Green and Brandon Bass for Amare?

You think Nuggets will give away Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Arthur, Lil Nate for Tyson and Jeff Green?

We only give Tyson, Amare, Bargs and Pablo and we get Gallo, Asik, Lin, The Mayor, Mozgov, G Wallace, Joel Anthony and Arthur? Do we get multiple picks too?

The basketball gods must love us then.

When did Gerald Wallace and Joel Anthony become anything more than bad contracts? And when did Jeff Green become anything more than an overglorified, overpaid role player? All 3 have been rumored to be on the block for the Celtics and only Brandon Bass was rumored to be able to draw assets in return.

And personally, I do think the Nuggets would give up that package for Jeff Green and Tyson Chandler. As I said before, Green is a comparable player to Wilson Chandler and Gallo but healthier. Chandler is an upgrade over Mozgov in most NBA circles (not my opinion though) and would serve more purpose for them as a mentor to McGee.

As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal, explain to me why these trades are not viable based on the market standards of the league.

Holy crap. I don't really play this game. Have a nice day.

We both would have been better served if you started the conversation with this attitude.

GustavBahler wrote:Gallo cant stay on the floor Narddog.

If he could, we wouldn't be able to make the trade. I think Darrell Arthur and Wilson Chandler could provide nice spot duty for him during his injury bouts....unless they are injuried as well, lol. The team is flawed, no doubt, but with +$23 million in cap space in 2015, at least we can make improvements to it. I much prefer a balanced approach like that, than crossing our fingers and hoping 2 all-stars fall into our lap like 2010.

NardDogNation wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:You think Celtics will give away G. Wallace, Joel Anthony, Jeff Green and Brandon Bass for Amare?

You think Nuggets will give away Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Arthur, Lil Nate for Tyson and Jeff Green?

We only give Tyson, Amare, Bargs and Pablo and we get Gallo, Asik, Lin, The Mayor, Mozgov, G Wallace, Joel Anthony and Arthur? Do we get multiple picks too?

The basketball gods must love us then.

When did Gerald Wallace and Joel Anthony become anything more than bad contracts? And when did Jeff Green become anything more than an overglorified, overpaid role player? All 3 have been rumored to be on the block for the Celtics and only Brandon Bass was rumored to be able to draw assets in return.

And personally, I do think the Nuggets would give up that package for Jeff Green and Tyson Chandler. As I said before, Green is a comparable player to Wilson Chandler and Gallo but healthier. Chandler is an upgrade over Mozgov in most NBA circles (not my opinion though) and would serve more purpose for them as a mentor to McGee.

As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal, explain to me why these trades are not viable based on the market standards of the league.

Holy crap. I don't really play this game. Have a nice day.

We both would have been better served if you started the conversation with this attitude.

No dude, the response we OK, your response was with poor attitude.

All he had to offer was sarcasm, which in my eyes is disrespectful if the intention of the OP is to have a meaningful discussion. I could understand the use if I slighted him but I think it's uncalled for as a first response.

Sarcasm is a part of this and pretty much any online forum - I barely see it in response, very light if any. If you can't take even a tad without a response like "As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal" then this may not be the best place for your ideas. If you want to elevate those responses to your idea, why would you respond with a completely out of line "you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal"?

Be confident in your thoughts and counter, otherwise don't start a topic.

BTW, you are kookoo to think Boston will give away Green and Bass for what amounts to a salary dump in Amare, those 2 guys have value.

NardDogNation wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:You think Celtics will give away G. Wallace, Joel Anthony, Jeff Green and Brandon Bass for Amare?

You think Nuggets will give away Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Arthur, Lil Nate for Tyson and Jeff Green?

We only give Tyson, Amare, Bargs and Pablo and we get Gallo, Asik, Lin, The Mayor, Mozgov, G Wallace, Joel Anthony and Arthur? Do we get multiple picks too?

The basketball gods must love us then.

When did Gerald Wallace and Joel Anthony become anything more than bad contracts? And when did Jeff Green become anything more than an overglorified, overpaid role player? All 3 have been rumored to be on the block for the Celtics and only Brandon Bass was rumored to be able to draw assets in return.

And personally, I do think the Nuggets would give up that package for Jeff Green and Tyson Chandler. As I said before, Green is a comparable player to Wilson Chandler and Gallo but healthier. Chandler is an upgrade over Mozgov in most NBA circles (not my opinion though) and would serve more purpose for them as a mentor to McGee.

As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal, explain to me why these trades are not viable based on the market standards of the league.

Holy crap. I don't really play this game. Have a nice day.

We both would have been better served if you started the conversation with this attitude.

No dude, the response we OK, your response was with poor attitude.

All he had to offer was sarcasm, which in my eyes is disrespectful if the intention of the OP is to have a meaningful discussion. I could understand the use if I slighted him but I think it's uncalled for as a first response.

Sarcasm is a part of this and pretty much any online forum - I barely see it in response, very light if any. If you can't take even a tad without a response like "As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal" then this may not be the best place for your ideas. If you want to elevate those responses to your idea, why would you respond with a completely out of line "you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal"?

Be confident in your thoughts and counter, otherwise don't start a topic.

BTW, you are kookoo to think Boston will give away Green and Bass for what amounts to a salary dump in Amare, those 2 guys have value.

I love debate and readily welcome counter-arguments, rebuttals, and the like if they are actually constructive. Re-stating my points, and then including a snarky closer like "the basketball gods must love us then" does not qualify as being constructive and, in my opinion, is hardly intelligible. It's why I directed him to actually offer reasoning as to why these proposals are not realistic. He opted not to.

I've disagreed with plenty of guys on this board but I've tried to make the conversation respectful and they have reciprocated. I don't always see eye-to-eye on basketball with a guy like Bonn but I can at least say that I've actually learned stuff from our exchange and changed some of my opinions because of the content of his arguments. The same goes for a guy like mreinman who is arguing my exact counterpoint in this same thread. The difference between them and NYKBocker in this particular instance, is that they actually engaged the conversation with respect, which prompted my response.

And yes, Brandon Bass and Jeff Green do have value in the league. Gerald Wallace and Joel Anthony, to a much lesser extent, do not because of their contracts. Bad contracts negate on-court performances, which is why guys like Joe Johnson and Richard Jefferson (going to the Spurs from Milwaukee) get traded for little more than expiring contracts. The Celtics have been rumored to have both Jeff Green and Brandon Bass on the block, so I think they are readily available at the right price. Dumping $22 million in guaranteed money, and creating an $8 million trade exception isn't something that can be scoffed out considering how close the Celtics are to the luxury tax and how punitive it has been. Plus, with Rondo still around, they'll probably want to be major players in 2015, which this trade would allow them to be.

that's fine. Just to repeat: you lose complete and total credibility to any responses when you add this to your arguments: "As opposed to trying to be a smart ass because you're butt hurt that I **** over your proposal, explain to me why these trades are not viable based on the market standards of the league."

BTW, you must have some super thin skin if "the basketball gods must love us then" is throwing your game. It's like a defender breathing on you heavily and you flopping and wanting a foul called. Man up.

NardDogNation wrote:I have a tendency to be blunt is all. I suppose that it can rub certain people the wrong way. Considering my track record, I didn't think that this was the comment that would ruffle feathers though.

It was.

And wouldn't you extend the same courtesy to others in the same way? You were very rude, Bocker added a hint of sarcasm.

NardDogNation wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I have a tendency to be blunt is all. I suppose that it can rub certain people the wrong way. Considering my track record, I didn't think that this was the comment that would ruffle feathers though.

It was.

And wouldn't you extend the same courtesy to others in the same way? You were very rude, Bocker added a hint of sarcasm.

My initial response involved, what, 150 words? And approximately 15 of those are what you've highlighted for evidence of me being "rude", which is hardly enough to form two complete sentences.

Re-reading it, the only term that can really be portrayed as insensitive/rude/objectionable is "butt-hurt", which is a common phrase among 18-35 year olds aka the Comedy Central demographic. If you replace "butt-hurt" for a more appropriate synonym, "angry", it would read: "as opposed to being a smart ass because you're angry I ****ted on your proposal...". And this is suppose to be "rude"? If that's the case, I'm not sure that I'm the one with thin-skin here.

dude your reply was out of line. End of story.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:You want a guy who has averaged 3 assists per game for his career as our starting PG? That is the worst passing starting 5 in NBA history.

Ron Harper averaged 3.9apg for his career, playing 4 seasons as Phil Jackson's PG. He has 4 rings to show for it.

As for the rest of the team, the Nuggets seemed to be good at moving the ball. I'm not sure why that would now become an issue, considering that we'd have half their team.

Geeeez - he was not the PG. Pippen and Jordan were - where do you think the assists came from?

OJ (3), Shump (2), Gallo (1.9) and Melo (3), Moz (0.5)

Sometimes I am not sure if you are kidding.

If you look at any official listing of those Bulls/Lakers starting lineups, Ron Harper is slated at "PG" spot. As I've said several dozen times, the PG in the triangle does not fulfill the prototypical role of a PG. That was the case for Ron Harper. That would be the case for OJ Mayo and why you, pointing out his assist per game numbers, makes no sense.

And to be fair, the numbers you are listing involve players, playing for different teams, in systems that are not the triangle. They are not bad passers, I just don't think they've been put in a system where they are responsible for consistently creating shots for others. Before Phil came along as head coach, Scottie Pippen averaged 2.1apg and 3.5apg. With Phil, he averaged 6.4apg for his career. Who is to say that guys like Melo and Gallo couldn't step their games up in that respect?

Ron Harper's assists went down a lot when he joined the triangle. He was averaging 5.5 on the clippers.

You are just going to assume that all these low rate assist men will now be zenified?

As I have said numerous times, we should be looking for highly efficient diamonds and picks not OJ Mayo's and their bloated salaries.

Yes, Ron Harper was a ball dominant all-star at the SG position who had the opportunities to pad his stats. Mayo, on the other hand, has been an off the ball SG, who had to differ his ball handling opportunities to all-stars Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph in Memphis. In Dallas, he managed to have a career high 4.4apg, while having more of an opportunity to handle the ball and orchestrate the offense, despite differing to both Dirk Nowitzki and Darren Collision. The fact is that the guy is a pretty good passer and can rack up assists if the ball is actually in his hands. On a team like the Knicks, I see him exceeding his career high in that respect because of the nature of the system and make-up of the team.

And you keep trying to characterize Mayo as being some type of inefficient scorer, despite the numbers not reflecting that. If you ignore his performance with the Bucks, an aberration by his standards, you'd see that Mayo would actually rank among the best as far as PG's are concerned. Presuming that his range would be somewhere between 54.0TS%-55.6TS%, he would be on par with such guys as Tony Parker (55.8%), Ty Lawson (55.3%), Mike Conley (54.5%), Russell Westbrook (54.5%) and superior to such all-stars as Kyrie Irving (53.3%), John Wall (52.3%) and Jrue Holiday (50.5%).

You keep mentioning how we need to find "efficient diamonds in the rough" but those kind of guys don't exist. With everyone using advanced metrics and projections, the market value will begin to reflect the players actual value, so don't expect us to make any steals. Who we need to be looking for are guys that are being misused and who are underperforming that can excel in our system if given the opportunity. Mayo is that kind of guy.

We certainly don't want misused or under performing guys who have bloated contracts that go past next year.

There are many diamonds that can be found. We just never knew how to find them or what to look for.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I think the off season should be focused on getting maximum Draft picks for whatever value the market assigns to our assets. I think Melo to Houston is the way to go as long as we get Chandler Parsons, Asik and Lin back along with Draft picks. I don't think we can build a contending team around Melo because the rest of our pieces won't fetch anything of value. I also don't think Melo is a system player or will even try to fit into one since he openly refused to play for D'Antoni.

Not trying to get off topic but melo resigning would indicate he is willing to play in a system. Also, when did Melo openly refuse to play for Dantoni?

You are right. He quit on the team is what I should have said. He may be willing which I will believe when he actually takes less rather than talk about it. I still don't think he can play well in a system.