gunsnewing wrote:I'm looking at changing the culture to a winning one. I'm not concerned about making the playoffs next year. We most likely will but I want to build sustainable winner. No quick fixes. I think Phil and Kerr could establish that if fans are patient. I'm looking aiming to be like th spurs okc and Miami. Everyone else is in ilthe mix but not really. I'm willing to give Phil the full 5yrs. No shortcuts

You can change the culture and still be a playoff contender. I think next year will be the turn around mentally that gets the team competing and the following season is when they add the pieces to the puzzle to get them in championship contention. I think short term and long term flexibility can still be maintained.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could **** like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could **** like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could **** like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

yup... and being paid double for the same job in cities like Cha, Atl or Chi

First things first. Knicks fan compliant...Not true. Howard was able to walk away with basically a net out, so it is not just a NY issue. In regards to the advantages of living in NY. This is true if you work in corporate America due to the number of jobs in the NYM area. In a capped league where all is equal it is a disadvantage since you have no benefit from the local job market. The comment about getting paid double than Cha, Atl, or Chi is completely false. The gap between Chi and NY is not substantial, so I'll go with Charlotte for your example. The main reason for the pay gap is cost of living renting/buying a place in Cha vs NY is night and day. You can get the same or more in Cha at around half the costs. Companies realize that and pay accordingly.

I am purely talking about net numbers with tax so teams like LA, Chi, NY would get an adjustment on cap. it makes logical sense to do so. Professional athlete vs regular job isn't even close to the same so you can't really have them factor in cost of living. It is nieve to assume that players agents aren't making them aware of the benefits, since the companies the people advising them work for pay based on tax and cost of living for like 99.9% of all employees.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could **** like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

yup... and being paid double for the same job in cities like Cha, Atl or Chi

First things first. Knicks fan compliant...Not true. Howard was able to walk away with basically a net out, so it is not just a NY issue. In regards to the advantages of living in NY. This is true if you work in corporate America due to the number of jobs in the NYM area. In a capped league where all is equal it is a disadvantage since you have no benefit from the local job market. The comment about getting paid double than Cha, Atl, or Chi is completely false. The gap between Chi and NY is not substantial, so I'll go with Charlotte for your example. The main reason for the pay gap is cost of living renting/buying a place in Cha vs NY is night and day. You can get the same or more in Cha at around half the costs. Companies realize that and pay accordingly.

I am purely talking about net numbers with tax so teams like LA, Chi, NY would get an adjustment on cap. it makes logical sense to do so. Professional athlete vs regular job isn't even close to the same so you can't really have them factor in cost of living. It is nieve to assume that players agents aren't making them aware of the benefits, since the companies the people advising them work for pay based on tax and cost of living for like 99.9% of all employees.

There are all sorts of advantages to living in NYC - great museums, parks, restaurants, etc. - that wouldn't be matched living elsewhere. If that's not good enough to outweigh the taxes, then NYC isn't doing its job.

That's a fair point. I'm just saying that it is kind of absurd to disregard it when players continue to sign in tax free states for "less." Proof is in the pudding there. These guys make millions so they can vacation here and still be ahead of the game. People frequently post about players coming here for less, but I am pointing out that in signing here they are already doing so. It's unrealistic to ask somebody to take around a 25% pay cut to come here vs somewhere else.

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was an idiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was an idiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

I think it is an issue because players continue to try and build super teams in income tax free states via free agency, which can't be done without players truly taking less. Nobody has seemed interested in doing that yet.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was anidiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

I think it is an issue because players continue to try and build super teams in income tax free states via free agency, which can't be done without players truly taking less. Nobody has seemed interested in doing that yet.

You mean Lebron and Bosh?

Yes, and Howard would be in that same category. I do think Miami had an advantage in building using MLE and stuff like that because they can effectively pay more.