Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:This is the one time I hate to be right, but I told you guys this team was NOT better than last years.....and now thats official.

Enough with names and on paper talent, hopefully Phil will build an actual team, and not this "clumsy roster" that was on the court this season.

Papabear Says

It Amare would have been playing like he is playing now for the whole season we would have made the playoffs hands down.

did Woody tie his hands when he said he was ready...?

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

If Kidd coached this sorry squad he would have been fired already.

Displaced blame, cmon.

2 words - guard play.

The only reason why Woodson is still here is because of his CAA affiliation....but what dk is saying for the most part is correct.

The team has no on court direction and leadership which they had quite a bit of last season in Kidd Sheed and Kurt especially.

Their lack of direction and leadership comes from having the worst PG in the league not because of Melo. He (melo) is certainly not a great leader but lets not misplace blame here. Melo played his azz off this year and we are blaming him? Its just off base.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

Is this a joke??..Synergy in Brooklyn??? they underachieved this year as well..Projection had them as a top seed in the east..Experts said they would challenge the Heat...They are 43-36 and you are laying all sort if praise on them..You were killing a 54 win team last season...

its really how you are playing going into the postseason. Kidd struggled in the beginning trying to teach a team how to play the right way and that has bumps in the road.

Last year the knicks were the opposite. Stumbling into the playoffs and playing bad team basketball.

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

Is this a joke??..Synergy in Brooklyn??? they underachieved this year as well..Projection had them as a top seed in the east..Experts said they would challenge the Heat...They are 43-36 and you are laying all sort if praise on them..You were killing a 54 win team last season...

its really how you are playing going into the postseason. Kidd struggled in the beginning trying to teach a team how to play the right way and that has bumps in the road.

Last year the knicks were the opposite. Stumbling into the playoffs and playing bad team basketball.

Did you watch the last 20 games last year? The exact opposite is true.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

Is this a joke??..Synergy in Brooklyn??? they underachieved this year as well..Projection had them as a top seed in the east..Experts said they would challenge the Heat...They are 43-36 and you are laying all sort if praise on them..You were killing a 54 win team last season...

the brooklyn team is better suited to playoff basketball than the knicks were last year. they just needed time to gel and work out their health issues. i believe i read that they have the best record in the nba since january 1st or something to that effect. their vets are rested and ready for a playoff push. the wheels fell off the knick bus by the time the playoffs came around last because they were chasing wins while exhausting their old timers, especially kidd. he gave everything he had-- don't you remember articles written about him covered in ice and unable to move for a day after playing so many minutes in so many games? the knicks were not winning the right way for a majority of the regular season-- woodson should have sacrificed wins for the sake of honing a deep squad and benching players who did not give their all on defense.

if kidd had played his seasoned vets too many minutes the nets might have won a couple more regular-season games but would have been exhausted. popovich does his share of sandbagging during the regular season and he has an extremely deep squad as a result. holzman played all twelve guys as a matter of policy.

the nets have not underachieved, they have been guided beautifully after a rocky start.

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

If Kidd coached this sorry squad he would have been fired already.

Displaced blame, cmon.

2 words - guard play.

The only reason why Woodson is still here is because of his CAA affiliation....but what dk is saying for the most part is correct.

The team has no on court direction and leadership which they had quite a bit of last season in Kidd Sheed and Kurt especially.

Their lack of direction and leadership comes from having the worst PG in the league not because of Melo. He (melo) is certainly not a great leader but lets not misplace blame here. Melo played his azz off this year and we are blaming him? Its just off base.

This team clearly lacks direction on the court, the difference between last year and this one.

The players said it, so has the coach.....they've all admitted it's not the same team and they miss the old heads.

mreinman wrote:

Dagger wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

Is this a joke??..Synergy in Brooklyn??? they underachieved this year as well..Projection had them as a top seed in the east..Experts said they would challenge the Heat...They are 43-36 and you are laying all sort if praise on them..You were killing a 54 win team last season...

its really how you are playing going into the postseason. Kidd struggled in the beginning trying to teach a team how to play the right way and that has bumps in the road.

Last year the knicks were the opposite. Stumbling into the playoffs and playing bad team basketball.

Did you watch the last 20 games last year? The exact opposite is true.

yeah you are right - I was way off. i guess I just remembered the painful end. i completely forgot that streak at the end of last season.

I just wish the playoffs had gone as smoothly!

Dagger wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Dagger wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

Is this a joke??..Synergy in Brooklyn??? they underachieved this year as well..Projection had them as a top seed in the east..Experts said they would challenge the Heat...They are 43-36 and you are laying all sort if praise on them..You were killing a 54 win team last season...

its really how you are playing going into the postseason. Kidd struggled in the beginning trying to teach a team how to play the right way and that has bumps in the road.

Last year the knicks were the opposite. Stumbling into the playoffs and playing bad team basketball.

Did you watch the last 20 games last year? The exact opposite is true.

yeah you are right - I was way off. i guess I just remembered the painful end. i completely forgot that streak at the end of last season.

I just wish the playoffs had gone as smoothly!

my main memory from last year was how great kidd was playing the first part of last year and how badly he played late/playoffs. Not blaming him but he could not hit a damn shot.

And, we had feast or famine JR feasting and its always famine for him in the playoffs. We needed kidd (or any other guard) to be hot for the playoffs.

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

If Kidd coached this sorry squad he would have been fired already.

Displaced blame, cmon.

2 words - guard play.

The only reason why Woodson is still here is because of his CAA affiliation....but what dk is saying for the most part is correct.

The team has no on court direction and leadership which they had quite a bit of last season in Kidd Sheed and Kurt especially.

Their lack of direction and leadership comes from having the worst PG in the league not because of Melo. He (melo) is certainly not a great leader but lets not misplace blame here. Melo played his azz off this year and we are blaming him? Its just off base.

Felton was bad last year as well and the team won 54 games...even played worse when he was injured....so thats not the reason.

This team clearly lacks direction on the court, the difference between last year and this one.

The players said it, so has the coach.....they've all admitted it's not the same team and they miss the old heads.

I am not arguing this.

The team last year certainly had more leadership and Kidd was a big part of it.

I have said many times that Melo needed Billups to be successful. The knicks did not have any of that this year.

For me it isnt really about Melo, usually he does what he does anyway.....it's the other guys that need the help

But I really can't pin point something that was present last year as well...guard play was terrible then too.

Kidd was present. He was a leader, especially when he was hitting shots.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:the biggest issue was the leadership vacuum and when there is a leadership vacuum you have underachievement and worse, implosion. the knicks franchise had no leadership. melo is no leader. woodson is no leader. mills and houston are no leaders. dolan is no leader.

hence implosion. a collective like a ball club needs health and order coming from the top down or from the bottom up. last year the health and order was from the bottom up and represented in the person of jason kidd. that leadership has now been verified by the success he has had as a coach of a very synergistic brooklyn team, who we should be proud to have represent the city in the playoffs. my hat's off to them. they are a very good team.

Is this a joke??..Synergy in Brooklyn??? they underachieved this year as well..Projection had them as a top seed in the east..Experts said they would challenge the Heat...They are 43-36 and you are laying all sort if praise on them..You were killing a 54 win team last season...

the brooklyn team is better suited to playoff basketball than the knicks were last year. they just needed time to gel and work out their health issues. i believe i read that they have the best record in the nba since january 1st or something to that effect. their vets are rested and ready for a playoff push. the wheels fell off the knick bus by the time the playoffs came around last because they were chasing wins while exhausting their old timers, especially kidd. he gave everything he had-- don't you remember articles written about him covered in ice and unable to move for a day after playing so many minutes in so many games? the knicks were not winning the right way for a majority of the regular season-- woodson should have sacrificed wins for the sake of honing a deep squad and benching players who did not give their all on defense.

if kidd had played his seasoned vets too many minutes the nets might have won a couple more regular-season games but would have been exhausted. popovich does his share of sandbagging during the regular season and he has an extremely deep squad as a result. holzman played all twelve guys as a matter of policy.

the nets have not underachieved, they have been guided beautifully after a rocky start.

I'll remember this post...

you do that. have it ready the minute the nets are destroyed in either the first or second round since that is what you hope and expect will happen.

but here's a question: why do you expect it to happen?

Well it depends on match ups..Toronto will give them a hard time but Toronto depends on the jumper too much ...Nets should be able to grind it out given the vet players...Nets are old but slow...