tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

you take away kidd and rasheed and all of a sudden were a lottery team, it only takes 1 or 2 players to fck everything up.

Felton keeps letting his man blow by him or he gets lost in a switch, tyon doesnt protect the paint, gets loss on a switch.

If 1 0r 2 guys are yelling and communicating on D, theres going to be a trickling down effect, instead of all the players chasing the ball on defense. What I see is guys communicating after the play like ( I thought you had him)wtf

It's beyond pathetic. It's like they can only be bothered trying if they're guaranteed a win- they give up at the drop of a hat. Bad loss the game before? Give up. Opposing team makes a few shots? Give up. Not hitting your shots? Give up. Get beat on defense? Give up. Absolute losers with not an ounce of competitiveness or resiliency.

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

This is on woodson, watch the effort on D, watch guys just look at the ball handler and fixate on that, watch guys running back to there man and wont eeven put a hand up, no rotations on D, in some case a guy will play his defender left, and when the defender goes right theres no one there to protect the rim. You can't soley blame that on the gurads..If their was a paint protector, they would think twice, but tyson is always stickick to his man like glue who takes him right out of the paint..

knicks1248 wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

you take away kidd and rasheed and all of a sudden were a lottery team, it only takes 1 or 2 players to fck everything up.

Felton keeps letting his man blow by him or he gets lost in a switch, tyon doesnt protect the paint, gets loss on a switch.

If 1 0r 2 guys are yelling and communicating on D, theres going to be a trickling down effect, instead of all the players chasing the ball on defense. What I see is guys communicating after the play like ( I thought you had him)wtf

I do understand how losing key players can cause a drop off, but this year has been a disaster...

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

Hmmmmm, I wonder which one of the 3 highest paid players is mostly to blame for bad backcourt play?

29 points, 9 boards, 3 dimes, 1 steal, 1 block, 8 FTA, 3 fouls

Fire the guys with the real money first!

I think the argument is we have so much cap/assets locked up with Chandler, Amar'e and Melo - that there was little left for adding talent to the back court - and hence we had no choice but to work the scrap heap, as it were.

You are 100% correct. And unlike the Heat, or OKC of the Knicks big 3 NONE are ball movers. Boston would have had the same problem but Rondo fell into their laps.

That being said Franco the Knicks had their guy: Jeremy Lin. No assets, just money. And we can beat the dead horse over what actually happened but there are some facts:
At midnight when FA started did the Knicks contact Lin? No, the contacted Nash and were public about it. Then they never offer Lin a contract. No attempts to set a market for him. Instead Woody (again publicly) says "we will match any offer." So in short if the Knicks wanted Lin or even understood that he filled a need, they did everything to phuck it up.

So while yes... I agree with your point about the cap and resources, I disagree it was an issue, because the Knicks HAD the guard they needed. A guy who can space, score, make plays and be a floor general. Lin may not be Chris Paul, but he's playing light years ahead of what we have.

Think of the lineups the Knicks have if they dont make dumb trades.
Guards: Lin/Prigs/JR/Shump
Bigs: Chandler/Stat/MElo
Shooters: Novak/Copeland

Doesnt even account for KMart, Arterst, etc

We would be infinitly better.

Good post. I don't think people realize how much this team could have used Lin. And it was all about the final year cap hit which will be in this irrelevant cap your for us.

Funny, when Dolan was asked about if he has regrets about Lin he said "no I don't have any regrets about Lin and his 19 million he will make next year" IT IS 15 MILLION NOT 19 MILLION you dumb jack***!

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

Hmmmmm, I wonder which one of the 3 highest paid players is mostly to blame for bad backcourt play?

29 points, 9 boards, 3 dimes, 1 steal, 1 block, 8 FTA, 3 fouls

Fire the guys with the real money first!

I think the argument is we have so much cap/assets locked up with Chandler, Amar'e and Melo - that there was little left for adding talent to the back court - and hence we had no choice but to work the scrap heap, as it were.

You are 100% correct. And unlike the Heat, or OKC of the Knicks big 3 NONE are ball movers. Boston would have had the same problem but Rondo fell into their laps.

That being said Franco the Knicks had their guy: Jeremy Lin. No assets, just money. And we can beat the dead horse over what actually happened but there are some facts:
At midnight when FA started did the Knicks contact Lin? No, the contacted Nash and were public about it. Then they never offer Lin a contract. No attempts to set a market for him. Instead Woody (again publicly) says "we will match any offer." So in short if the Knicks wanted Lin or even understood that he filled a need, they did everything to phuck it up.

So while yes... I agree with your point about the cap and resources, I disagree it was an issue, because the Knicks HAD the guard they needed. A guy who can space, score, make plays and be a floor general. Lin may not be Chris Paul, but he's playing light years ahead of what we have.

Think of the lineups the Knicks have if they dont make dumb trades.
Guards: Lin/Prigs/JR/Shump
Bigs: Chandler/Stat/MElo
Shooters: Novak/Copeland

Doesnt even account for KMart, Arterst, etc

We would be infinitly better.

They had every intentions on trading/aquiring felton, had he not been available then perhaps lin would be here, but seeing how well felton played in the system, Lin became an option, an expensive one..

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

fishmike I am very objective when I watch the knicks.. here is an article you should read, from GRANTLAND, it is about the mavs and their culture.. good read..

http://grantland.com/features/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis-dirk-nowitzki-2014/

the culture of this team, especially on the floor, is bad... it starts with your best players... that is where we have failed.. I think you feel that guys like felton and prigs and a few others may be under performing... but felton is close to his regular numbers.. his % is down a couple of points, his PPG average is down just a couple of points, but his turnovers are also down slightly and his assist are up.... I just don't think that should impact how bad we have been...

In the end, it is up to the big money guys, Carmelo, amare, chandler, to lead, find a way to make this team competitive...

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

Hmmmmm, I wonder which one of the 3 highest paid players is mostly to blame for bad backcourt play?

29 points, 9 boards, 3 dimes, 1 steal, 1 block, 8 FTA, 3 fouls

Fire the guys with the real money first!

I think the argument is we have so much cap/assets locked up with Chandler, Amar'e and Melo - that there was little left for adding talent to the back court - and hence we had no choice but to work the scrap heap, as it were.

You are 100% correct. And unlike the Heat, or OKC of the Knicks big 3 NONE are ball movers. Boston would have had the same problem but Rondo fell into their laps.

That being said Franco the Knicks had their guy: Jeremy Lin. No assets, just money. And we can beat the dead horse over what actually happened but there are some facts:
At midnight when FA started did the Knicks contact Lin? No, the contacted Nash and were public about it. Then they never offer Lin a contract. No attempts to set a market for him. Instead Woody (again publicly) says "we will match any offer." So in short if the Knicks wanted Lin or even understood that he filled a need, they did everything to phuck it up.

So while yes... I agree with your point about the cap and resources, I disagree it was an issue, because the Knicks HAD the guard they needed. A guy who can space, score, make plays and be a floor general. Lin may not be Chris Paul, but he's playing light years ahead of what we have.

Think of the lineups the Knicks have if they dont make dumb trades.
Guards: Lin/Prigs/JR/Shump
Bigs: Chandler/Stat/MElo
Shooters: Novak/Copeland

Doesnt even account for KMart, Arterst, etc

We would be infinitly better.

losing lin was ridiculous.. especially since we added bargnani and his 13 mil deal, and having to trade picks to get him....

helloharv wrote:how many possesions did LA have in the 3rd to score 51 points?

However many they liked