VCoug wrote:I hated the Sprewell-KVH trade but at least KVH ended up being a pretty good player for us. The only contribution Tim Thomas ever made to the Knicks was "fugazi".

Panos wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:It was a terrible day for me when I found out we'd not only traded Spre, but got Van Horn back- I hated him! I know at the time people said he was surprisingly good for him, but I refused to acknowledge it then, and I refuse to acknowledge it now! I was glad we got rid of him and bought into IT's crap about TT's untapped potential.

At the end of the day I didn't like either of them!

To both of their defenses, they were misused their entire career. They were 4's that their coaches forced to play the 3. Tim Thomas got the opportunity to play the 4 for one season in the Phoenix, where he excelled but that was about it.

Disagree.
KVH was a 4 and played the 4.
TT didn't play the 4 because he was soft as **** and couldn't rebound. He averaged like 4 per game. Shumpert is a better rebounder than that fugazi sissy.

When was that? Kenyon Martin played the 4 for the Nets. Before he arrived, I remember guys like Aaron Williams and the like, filling the role.

As for Tim Thomas, how many rebounds did you expect him to get by playing away from the basket as a 3? I admit that he was not the best of rebounders but that was never a pre-requisite to playing the 4. Amar'e was an all-star big man and that came during seasons where he was only grabbing 8-ish rebounds per game and he operated close to the basket. Same with Pau Gasol. Same with Kenyon Martin. Same with Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Same with Rasheed Wallace. Same with many elite PF's of the day. So I think your criticisms are unfair.

Panos wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Panos wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:It was a terrible day for me when I found out we'd not only traded Spre, but got Van Horn back- I hated him! I know at the time people said he was surprisingly good for him, but I refused to acknowledge it then, and I refuse to acknowledge it now! I was glad we got rid of him and bought into IT's crap about TT's untapped potential.

At the end of the day I didn't like either of them!

To both of their defenses, they were misused their entire career. They were 4's that their coaches forced to play the 3. Tim Thomas got the opportunity to play the 4 for one season in the Phoenix, where he excelled but that was about it.

Disagree.
KVH was a 4 and played the 4.
TT didn't play the 4 because he was soft as **** and couldn't rebound. He averaged like 4 per game. Shumpert is a better rebounder than that fugazi sissy.

When was that? Kenyon Martin played the 4 for the Nets. Before he arrived, I remember guys like Aaron Williams and the like, filling the role.

As for Tim Thomas, how many rebounds did you expect him to get by playing away from the basket as a 3? I admit that he was not the best of rebounders but that was never a pre-requisite to playing the 4. Amar'e was an all-star big man and that came during seasons where he was only grabbing 8-ish rebounds per game and he operated close to the basket. Same with Pau Gasol. Same with Kenyon Martin. Same with Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Same with Rasheed Wallace. Same with many elite PF's of the day. So I think your criticisms are unfair.

Oh come on man. I can't believe I'm even having this discussion. Did you ever even see TT play? He was a terrible rebounder. Even when he was close to the basket. He had no effort, no motor.

He was never close to the basket, which would make it all the more likely that he wouldn't grab a rebound 6"11' or not.

mreinman wrote:had to vote for the black guy. white guys always win heads up

KVH was the better player though. Tim had more potential for whatever that was worth.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:had to vote for the black guy. white guys always win heads up

KVH was the better player though. Tim had more potential for whatever that was worth.

I remember KVH in Utah. I thought he would really be a superstar.

Tim Thomas sucked!

They both could ball. They just were born too early because both would've excelled in today's NBA.

Most thought that KVH was a potential superstar. I thought he could be but unfortunately, other people's bull**** got to him. He was one of the few players who was judged on anything but basketball by people who had some racial angle they wanted to play or who wanted to pigeonhole his game. Back in the day, he became something of a "the Great White Hope" and got compared to Larry Bird, which I think helped destroy his confidence by chasing a ghost. And if it wasn't white people heaping these lofty expectations on him, it was racial minorities making him the scapegoat for ****ty teams. I think that's why he wanted out of the league when he was only 30 and still able to contribute.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:had to vote for the black guy. white guys always win heads up

KVH was the better player though. Tim had more potential for whatever that was worth.

I remember KVH in Utah. I thought he would really be a superstar.

Tim Thomas sucked!

They both could ball. They just were born too early because both would've excelled in today's NBA.

Most thought that KVH was a potential superstar. I thought he could be but unfortunately, other people's bull**** got to him. He was one of the few players who was judged on anything but basketball by people who had some racial angle they wanted to play or who wanted to pigeonhole his game. Back in the day, he became something of a "the Great White Hope" and got compared to Larry Bird, which I think helped destroy his confidence by chasing a ghost. And if it wasn't white people heaping these lofty expectations on him, it was racial minorities making him the scapegoat for ****ty teams. I think that's why he wanted out of the league when he was only 30 and still able to contribute.

I kind of hear what you are saying.

Unfortunately, timing and team/teammates are everything and can make or break a player.

However, he just did not turn out to be the consistent shooter that he was projected to be.

His other problem was that he was an awful (or unwilling) passer.

When it came to shooting the ball, Keith was "on" more often than not, which is why he was known as a noteworthy scorer in the league. As for his passing, what other 6"11' scorers do you know of from that time, who were also adept/willing passers? The game back then was more iso-heavy and not free flowing like it is today, so I wouldn't expect a guy like him to set up other players.