dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:OMG

Phil is in the process of turning dk and tfk into believers??? As Azoff MSG Entertainment would say, Hell Freezes Over!

lookit i can't emphasize enough how big an "IF" this is going to be, as in "'IF' melo can maintain this sort of ratio, even going as high as 1.3 to 1, then he will be helping his team win games."

and that means winning games by playing the right way. that ratio i have been emphasizing for years is as good a barometer of his play as anything else.

i think the triangle, if bought into (again big IF) actually helps inefficient score-first types achieve this ratio no matter how poorly they are shooting. if you look at bryant's and jordan's numbers in terms of this ratio you see that they both were at their peak by having a ratio between 1.3 and 1.4 to one.

jackson has to be certain that anthony is not only willing but also able to play this way, less dribbling and more cutting and passing.

if jackson doesn't believe it then melo is gone.

if jackson does believe it, it should provide leverage for jackson to force melo to take a big paycut as a form of "tuition," in addition to providing room for other capable players to come in.

i think ronron has the right idea: structure the contract so melo gets paid more next season and then have him earn much less the following seasons.... EDIT so far as that is possible.

Stats USG to AST ratio for his career is 3.8 to 1! Ouch.

I am not sure if that is the end all barometer. I buy into TS% a bit more because its consistent though I know it has some flaws too.

reinman the reason for that is that stat has been a finisher for most of his career not an "engine" or "catalyst". if you ook at the season with nash compared to his tenure with the knicks i believe you will see substantial fluctuations in both figures.

Not really. The only year that this stat was not as awful was 2010-2011 season 2.3 : 1.

The numbers seem pretty consistent for all of his career.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:dk7th, just edited your OP, check out the formatting.

thanks andrew. did you do it by hand or is there some simple method i just don't understand?

I think he is Martin

or "martin", actually.

Give dk7th some slack. Starting a positive Melo thread can scramble your mind.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:OMG

Phil is in the process of turning dk and tfk into believers??? As Azoff MSG Entertainment would say, Hell Freezes Over!

lookit i can't emphasize enough how big an "IF" this is going to be, as in "'IF' melo can maintain this sort of ratio, even going as high as 1.3 to 1, then he will be helping his team win games."

and that means winning games by playing the right way. that ratio i have been emphasizing for years is as good a barometer of his play as anything else.

i think the triangle, if bought into (again big IF) actually helps inefficient score-first types achieve this ratio no matter how poorly they are shooting. if you look at bryant's and jordan's numbers in terms of this ratio you see that they both were at their peak by having a ratio between 1.3 and 1.4 to one.

jackson has to be certain that anthony is not only willing but also able to play this way, less dribbling and more cutting and passing.

if jackson doesn't believe it then melo is gone.

if jackson does believe it, it should provide leverage for jackson to force melo to take a big paycut as a form of "tuition," in addition to providing room for other capable players to come in.

i think ronron has the right idea: structure the contract so melo gets paid more next season and then have him earn much less the following seasons.... EDIT so far as that is possible.

Stats USG to AST ratio for his career is 3.8 to 1! Ouch.

I am not sure if that is the end all barometer. I buy into TS% a bit more because its consistent though I know it has some flaws too.

reinman the reason for that is that stat has been a finisher for most of his career not an "engine" or "catalyst". if you ook at the season with nash compared to his tenure with the knicks i believe you will see substantial fluctuations in both figures.

Not really. The only year that this stat was not as awful was 2010-2011 season 2.3 : 1.

The numbers seem pretty consistent for all of his career.

yes as i tried to say the first season with the knicks as opposed to prior seasons with the suns. i guess to be clear i don't really know if his subsequent time here since melo's arrival we have enough to go on. but the difference in new york is that he did a lot more "engining" and attempts at catalyzing or starting possessions rather than all the bulk of finishing he did in phoenix.

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:OMG

Phil is in the process of turning dk and tfk into believers??? As Azoff MSG Entertainment would say, Hell Freezes Over!

lookit i can't emphasize enough how big an "IF" this is going to be, as in "'IF' melo can maintain this sort of ratio, even going as high as 1.3 to 1, then he will be helping his team win games."

and that means winning games by playing the right way. that ratio i have been emphasizing for years is as good a barometer of his play as anything else.

i think the triangle, if bought into (again big IF) actually helps inefficient score-first types achieve this ratio no matter how poorly they are shooting. if you look at bryant's and jordan's numbers in terms of this ratio you see that they both were at their peak by having a ratio between 1.3 and 1.4 to one.

jackson has to be certain that anthony is not only willing but also able to play this way, less dribbling and more cutting and passing.

if jackson doesn't believe it then melo is gone.

if jackson does believe it, it should provide leverage for jackson to force melo to take a big paycut as a form of "tuition," in addition to providing room for other capable players to come in.

i think ronron has the right idea: structure the contract so melo gets paid more next season and then have him earn much less the following seasons.... EDIT so far as that is possible.

Stats USG to AST ratio for his career is 3.8 to 1! Ouch.

I am not sure if that is the end all barometer. I buy into TS% a bit more because its consistent though I know it has some flaws too.

reinman the reason for that is that stat has been a finisher for most of his career not an "engine" or "catalyst". if you ook at the season with nash compared to his tenure with the knicks i believe you will see substantial fluctuations in both figures.

Not really. The only year that this stat was not as awful was 2010-2011 season 2.3 : 1.

The numbers seem pretty consistent for all of his career.

yes as i tried to say the first season with the knicks as opposed to prior seasons with the suns. i guess to be clear i don't really know if his subsequent time here since melo's arrival we have enough to go on. but the difference in new york is that he did a lot more "engining" and attempts at catalyzing or starting possessions rather than all the bulk of finishing he did in phoenix.

IDK, all I do know is that Stat has always been a horrible and unwilling passer. If his best year was 2.3 : 1. That is pretty telling.

I am curious to see other finishing PF's and how their USG : AST rate was. I haven't been able to think of anyone like him yet. Karl Malone played with Stockton and was a "finisher" (though a FAR better player than Amare). His was 1.67 : 1.

Carmelo is 2.01 : 1 for his career but I would like to see that get better. Malones later years were far better than his earlier ones as when he got older, he played far less selfishly.

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:OMG

Phil is in the process of turning dk and tfk into believers??? As Azoff MSG Entertainment would say, Hell Freezes Over!

lookit i can't emphasize enough how big an "IF" this is going to be, as in "'IF' melo can maintain this sort of ratio, even going as high as 1.3 to 1, then he will be helping his team win games."

and that means winning games by playing the right way. that ratio i have been emphasizing for years is as good a barometer of his play as anything else.

i think the triangle, if bought into (again big IF) actually helps inefficient score-first types achieve this ratio no matter how poorly they are shooting. if you look at bryant's and jordan's numbers in terms of this ratio you see that they both were at their peak by having a ratio between 1.3 and 1.4 to one.

jackson has to be certain that anthony is not only willing but also able to play this way, less dribbling and more cutting and passing.

if jackson doesn't believe it then melo is gone.

if jackson does believe it, it should provide leverage for jackson to force melo to take a big paycut as a form of "tuition," in addition to providing room for other capable players to come in.

i think ronron has the right idea: structure the contract so melo gets paid more next season and then have him earn much less the following seasons.... EDIT so far as that is possible.

Stats USG to AST ratio for his career is 3.8 to 1! Ouch.

I am not sure if that is the end all barometer. I buy into TS% a bit more because its consistent though I know it has some flaws too.

reinman the reason for that is that stat has been a finisher for most of his career not an "engine" or "catalyst". if you ook at the season with nash compared to his tenure with the knicks i believe you will see substantial fluctuations in both figures.

Not really. The only year that this stat was not as awful was 2010-2011 season 2.3 : 1.

The numbers seem pretty consistent for all of his career.

yes as i tried to say the first season with the knicks as opposed to prior seasons with the suns. i guess to be clear i don't really know if his subsequent time here since melo's arrival we have enough to go on. but the difference in new york is that he did a lot more "engining" and attempts at catalyzing or starting possessions rather than all the bulk of finishing he did in phoenix.

IDK, all I do know is that Stat has always been a horrible and unwilling passer. If his best year was 2.3 : 1. That is pretty telling.

I am curious to see other finishing PF's and how their USG : AST rate was. I haven't been able to think of anyone like him yet. Karl Malone played with Stockton and was a "finisher" (though a FAR better player than Amare). His was 1.67 : 1.

Carmelo is 2.01 : 1 for his career but I would like to see that get better. Malones later years were far better than his earlier ones as when he got older, he played far less selfishly.

my main gripe with stat that first season was in fact that he needed to up his assists. tkf will back me up here because at that time i was on realgm only. i insisted that he get around 4 assists per game but he almost never did it. i also hated that he went one on three so often, freezing out his teammates. other people claimed he "put the team on his back" and "beasted" and other playground mentality projections. i thought otherwise.

i agree that malone was a great player and he evolved into a much better passer/playmaker over time.

so far as other power forwards i'll bet griffin's numbers are up there in terms of balance.

I completely agree with everything you said.

Amare was always getting himself stuck in triple teams, fumbling the ball and would never freakin pass. It was really frustrating to watch. What he did so well that first year was knock down every open shot he took. However, people forget that it was just half a season. By the time they traded for Carmelo, things were going south and fast. They were .500 at that point but were not playing near .500 ball anymore.

I was actually looking at Pippens numbers. His TS was not good 53.6 but his USG : AST ratio is rediculous! 0.97 : 1.

So I think that each player needs to bring something valuable / efficient to the table. Some may have a great TS, some may be freaky rebounders, some make others better by passing well and often. I don't think that you can look at one stat as a barometer. The data needs to be viewed as a whole.

Griffin is 1.47 : 1 which is pretty good actually so good call on that. He has really raised his game and his TS is up to 58 which is pretty decent too being that not everything is dunks anymore. When you just dunk you should have a really high TS which Griffin did not.

I used to dislike Griffin as a person and as a player but he has come a long way. I think that Doc helped him out too. He still plays pretty dirty though and players really are going at it with him. J. Oneal just went after him in the runway after a game. Tucker punched him in the face. He needs to chill out a bit.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:dk7th, just edited your OP, check out the formatting.

thanks andrew. did you do it by hand or is there some simple method i just don't understand?

I think he is Martin

LOL. dk7th, not sure I understand your response. If you click on the edit button for your opening post, you will see the [code] formatting I added. It's just like the [size] formatting you had added.

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:OMG

Phil is in the process of turning dk and tfk into believers??? As Azoff MSG Entertainment would say, Hell Freezes Over!

lookit i can't emphasize enough how big an "IF" this is going to be, as in "'IF' melo can maintain this sort of ratio, even going as high as 1.3 to 1, then he will be helping his team win games."

and that means winning games by playing the right way. that ratio i have been emphasizing for years is as good a barometer of his play as anything else.

i think the triangle, if bought into (again big IF) actually helps inefficient score-first types achieve this ratio no matter how poorly they are shooting. if you look at bryant's and jordan's numbers in terms of this ratio you see that they both were at their peak by having a ratio between 1.3 and 1.4 to one.

jackson has to be certain that anthony is not only willing but also able to play this way, less dribbling and more cutting and passing.

if jackson doesn't believe it then melo is gone.

if jackson does believe it, it should provide leverage for jackson to force melo to take a big paycut as a form of "tuition," in addition to providing room for other capable players to come in.

i think ronron has the right idea: structure the contract so melo gets paid more next season and then have him earn much less the following seasons.... EDIT so far as that is possible.

Stats USG to AST ratio for his career is 3.8 to 1! Ouch.

I am not sure if that is the end all barometer. I buy into TS% a bit more because its consistent though I know it has some flaws too.

reinman the reason for that is that stat has been a finisher for most of his career not an "engine" or "catalyst". if you ook at the season with nash compared to his tenure with the knicks i believe you will see substantial fluctuations in both figures.

Not really. The only year that this stat was not as awful was 2010-2011 season 2.3 : 1.

The numbers seem pretty consistent for all of his career.

yes as i tried to say the first season with the knicks as opposed to prior seasons with the suns. i guess to be clear i don't really know if his subsequent time here since melo's arrival we have enough to go on. but the difference in new york is that he did a lot more "engining" and attempts at catalyzing or starting possessions rather than all the bulk of finishing he did in phoenix.

IDK, all I do know is that Stat has always been a horrible and unwilling passer. If his best year was 2.3 : 1. That is pretty telling.

I am curious to see other finishing PF's and how their USG : AST rate was. I haven't been able to think of anyone like him yet. Karl Malone played with Stockton and was a "finisher" (though a FAR better player than Amare). His was 1.67 : 1.

Carmelo is 2.01 : 1 for his career but I would like to see that get better. Malones later years were far better than his earlier ones as when he got older, he played far less selfishly.

my main gripe with stat that first season was in fact that he needed to up his assists. tkf will back me up here because at that time i was on realgm only. i insisted that he get around 4 assists per game but he almost never did it. i also hated that he went one on three so often, freezing out his teammates. other people claimed he "put the team on his back" and "beasted" and other playground mentality projections. i thought otherwise.

i agree that malone was a great player and he evolved into a much better passer/playmaker over time.

so far as other power forwards i'll bet griffin's numbers are up there in terms of balance.

yep and I even remember when amare first came here and was playing out of his mind, your main criticism of him was that he was not getting enough assist or moving the ball enough. I know like myself you are very big on that aspect of the game...

that is too funny.

You guys are further apart on everything (other than Melo). TKF, stop trying to align yourself with logical reasoning.

CrushAlot wrote:He had a great game. Glad his stat line matched it.

I wonder how long it takes for the Melohaters to start telling us Stat led us to the playoffs?

Although how the most unlikely of Melo Love threads has turned into a Stat critique thread, I'll never understand.

Misdirection can be a terrible thing.