Talent is really not the issue. Teams with less talent have played better which leaves only the LEADERSHIP of the team to question. This is poor leadership plain and simple. Woody got let off the hook last year with so many vocal vets on the team last year and this year he and his band of merry men assistants, who are useless, didn't do the job.

Anji wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:I'm sure Phil's name shook players up and got them more motivated. But thats only one aspect of it. Amare hasn't played this well for this long since we first acquired him. Smith has recovered from injuries and has been playing well for a while. Felton has been a mess all season with the divorce. It was a collection of things. Tyson and Shump are probably the players that needed that kick in the ass though.

True that, the win streak started before the PJ rumores.

I think there a multitude of things going bad.

Injuries were a big part, Jr started the year hurt, Stat was under restrictions, and Chandler broke his leg.

Off the court issues with Feltons wife and JR's weed, brother, etc, were killing the team moral.

I think the locker room had too many voices, losing Bargs, cutting Beno and Metta, I would say the play definitely turned after the trade deadline.

There are a lot things that are benefiting the team right, can't discount the addition of Phil giving them a boost, you can't discount just hitting rock bottom and deciding to fight as a team.

I have to believe the players knew about Phil just before the press did.

Woody was a lame duck coach, players didn't even respect him anymore, Shumpert was found talking back to him Tyson was questioning his strategy on defense etc...

nixluva wrote:Woodson, Woodson, Woodson!!! He simply failed to establish a clear vision for this season. He could've just focused on what worked for him last year and then slowly worked the new players into the mix. Even when he chose to go with Bargnani in the lineup he didn't have to stick with him starting once he saw that it wasn't really working. The easiest thing to do would be to work him in off the bench until he got in shape and got a feel for how best to use him. He should've stepped to JR at the 1st sign of him acting up. Where the hell was his famous accountability??? He should've left Shump alone and not messed with his head.

Talent is really not the issue. Teams with less talent have played better which leaves only the LEADERSHIP of the team to question. This is poor leadership plain and simple. Woody got let off the hook last year with so many vocal vets on the team last year and this year he and his band of merry men assistants, who are useless, didn't do the job.

Really?

What we are witnessing is the return of Amare Stoudemire.

Plain and simple.

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:"I think this stretch alone has been the best they have been playing together. They have been feeding off each other." - JR Smith

nixluva wrote:Woodson, Woodson, Woodson!!! He simply failed to establish a clear vision for this season. He could've just focused on what worked for him last year and then slowly worked the new players into the mix. Even when he chose to go with Bargnani in the lineup he didn't have to stick with him starting once he saw that it wasn't really working. The easiest thing to do would be to work him in off the bench until he got in shape and got a feel for how best to use him. He should've stepped to JR at the 1st sign of him acting up. Where the hell was his famous accountability??? He should've left Shump alone and not messed with his head.

Talent is really not the issue. Teams with less talent have played better which leaves only the LEADERSHIP of the team to question. This is poor leadership plain and simple. Woody got let off the hook last year with so many vocal vets on the team last year and this year he and his band of merry men assistants, who are useless, didn't do the job.

Really?

What we are witnessing is the return of Amare Stoudemire.

Plain and simple.

Did Amare get healthier, or did he just dislike playing hard for Woody when he came back from injury this season. He mentioned to Woodson he was healthy enough to play more minutes upon his return.

Life a soapopera in your head isn't it? Plots and twists mixed with pettiness. Always dots to connect.

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:"I think this stretch alone has been the best they have been playing together. They have been feeding off each other." - JR Smith

nixluva wrote:Woodson, Woodson, Woodson!!! He simply failed to establish a clear vision for this season. He could've just focused on what worked for him last year and then slowly worked the new players into the mix. Even when he chose to go with Bargnani in the lineup he didn't have to stick with him starting once he saw that it wasn't really working. The easiest thing to do would be to work him in off the bench until he got in shape and got a feel for how best to use him. He should've stepped to JR at the 1st sign of him acting up. Where the hell was his famous accountability??? He should've left Shump alone and not messed with his head.

Talent is really not the issue. Teams with less talent have played better which leaves only the LEADERSHIP of the team to question. This is poor leadership plain and simple. Woody got let off the hook last year with so many vocal vets on the team last year and this year he and his band of merry men assistants, who are useless, didn't do the job.

Really?

What we are witnessing is the return of Amare Stoudemire.

Plain and simple.

Did Amare get healthier, or did he just dislike playing hard for Woody when he came back from injury this season. He mentioned to Woodson he was healthy enough to play more minutes upon his return.

the truth is he never got consistent mins from Woody until after all star break. maybe woody thought that amare can only last half a season on consistent mins so let me play him only at the latter half. IF that was his thought process (which i doubt) then it was a good move. but knowing woody, his stubborn sorry ass probably was too busy washing melo's feet.

knicks1248 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

misterearl wrote:"I think this stretch alone has been the best they have been playing together. They have been feeding off each other." - JR Smith

nixluva wrote:Woodson, Woodson, Woodson!!! He simply failed to establish a clear vision for this season. He could've just focused on what worked for him last year and then slowly worked the new players into the mix. Even when he chose to go with Bargnani in the lineup he didn't have to stick with him starting once he saw that it wasn't really working. The easiest thing to do would be to work him in off the bench until he got in shape and got a feel for how best to use him. He should've stepped to JR at the 1st sign of him acting up. Where the hell was his famous accountability??? He should've left Shump alone and not messed with his head.

Talent is really not the issue. Teams with less talent have played better which leaves only the LEADERSHIP of the team to question. This is poor leadership plain and simple. Woody got let off the hook last year with so many vocal vets on the team last year and this year he and his band of merry men assistants, who are useless, didn't do the job.

Really?

What we are witnessing is the return of Amare Stoudemire.

Plain and simple.

Exactly

that and improved play from JR and Chandler....I think its silly to think that the mention of P.Jax coming to the Knicks is the reason for the recent win streak.

Like most ppl I never lost faith in amare, he showed signs that he was still capable of big games even when wood was given inconsistent minutes.

Most of our problems lies with woodson's inabiltity to get a set rotation.

Our biggest lost was Kmart IMHO, he's a glue guy that would have made up for the lost of tyson like he did last march/april. But at the end of the day woodson failed at utilizing his roster and maximizing his talent. So unless we make the playoffs and atleast get to the ECF, he's done with out even batting an eyelash.

I honestly don't know how anyone could not notice how bad a job Woody had done up until now. He said it himself at the start of the year that he didn't know who the Knicks were and it was gonna take him time to figure out his rotations. then we watched as he simply failed to make the right decisions with the roster. On top of that his dealings with his players left something to be desired. He agitated Shump, coddled JR, failed to push Bargs, ignored STAT, Prigs and didn't do a good job developing Murry, Tyler and Cole. Now after the season was just about over he suddenly has found his groove, which may end up being too little too late, tho I hope not. If they don't make the playoffs it's mostly Woodson's fault IMO. The Thing is dude ain't that much of a coach to begin with. He's alright, but nothing special. Woody has a lot to prove with the rest of this season and if they should make the playoffs.

misterearl wrote:nixluva - the Knicks would need to run the table, through a west coast swing no less, to make the playoffs.

The fact remains, as Phil Jackson noted, the suspension of JR Smith, the Chandler injury AND the brittle nature of Amare Stoudemire's knees, all contributed to a revolving door of available players.

A head coach does not, I repeat DOES NOT, "develop" D-League players like Murry, Tyler and Cole and expect to win games against the Spurs, Thunder or Heat. No. You need a consistent core rotation that can dominate individual matchups on defense FIRST and second, exploit other defenses with continuity on offense. Continuity comes from trust. Trust is the by-product of familiarity.

Our roster was gutted. The replacement parts were all searching for answers.

Without Chandler, our defense suffered dramatically. That is a fact. Cole Aldrich is a nice player, but let's not get crazy, he and Jeremy Tyler are totally overmatched against Serge Ibaka, Tim Duncan and Roy Hibbert.

Don't get me started on our defensive liabilities at point guard.

WTF? This guy started the year with pretty much the same core players yet he claimed he didn't know who the Knicks are!!! He lost the season before training camp, made all the wrong moves and handled the players horribly. That's all on him.

But Knicks coach Mike Woodson made some noise himself yesterday when he was asked about his own starting lineup heading into next season and would only guarantee spots to three players -- Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton.

"That's what we use camp for. I have no idea who's going to start," Woodson said. "Camp should be pretty competitive based on the talent, and that's how it should be."

Noticeably absent from that list of definite starters was Iman Shumpert, who started all 45 games he played in last season after returning midway through the year from an ACL injury suffered in the 2012 playoffs. Shumpert also started all 12 of the Knicks' playoff games last season.

"You've got to go in and earn a spot," Woodson said when asked about Shumpert's status as a starter. "That's how I look at it."

Woodson also said he wasn't sure how he would use Anthony, who played most of last season at power forward and won the league scoring title with 28.7 points per game. With Amar'e Stoudemire and newly acquired forward Andrea Bargnani in the mix for playing time, Woodson could move Anthony back to his original position at small forward, though he wouldn't say what his plan is just yet.

"Melo is a player. I could play him at the [two-guard] and he'd be just fine. I don't know where I'm going to play him yet," Woodson said. "I'll play him, I know that, but we have to find two other bodies that fit that starting lineup and who that's going to be at this point, I don't know."

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:nixluva - the Knicks would need to run the table, through a west coast swing no less, to make the playoffs.

The fact remains, as Phil Jackson noted, the suspension of JR Smith, the Chandler injury AND the brittle nature of Amare Stoudemire's knees, all contributed to a revolving door of available players.

A head coach does not, I repeat DOES NOT, "develop" D-League players like Murry, Tyler and Cole and expect to win games against the Spurs, Thunder or Heat. No. You need a consistent core rotation that can dominate individual matchups on defense FIRST and second, exploit other defenses with continuity on offense. Continuity comes from trust. Trust is the by-product of familiarity.

Our roster was gutted. The replacement parts were all searching for answers.

Without Chandler, our defense suffered dramatically. That is a fact. Cole Aldrich is a nice player, but let's not get crazy, he and Jeremy Tyler are totally overmatched against Serge Ibaka, Tim Duncan and Roy Hibbert.

Don't get me started on our defensive liabilities at point guard.

WTF? This guy started the year with pretty much the same core players yet he claimed he didn't know who the Knicks are!!! He lost the season before training camp, made all the wrong moves and handled the players horribly. That's all on him.

But Knicks coach Mike Woodson made some noise himself yesterday when he was asked about his own starting lineup heading into next season and would only guarantee spots to three players -- Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton.

"That's what we use camp for. I have no idea who's going to start," Woodson said. "Camp should be pretty competitive based on the talent, and that's how it should be."

Noticeably absent from that list of definite starters was Iman Shumpert, who started all 45 games he played in last season after returning midway through the year from an ACL injury suffered in the 2012 playoffs. Shumpert also started all 12 of the Knicks' playoff games last season.

"You've got to go in and earn a spot," Woodson said when asked about Shumpert's status as a starter. "That's how I look at it."

Woodson also said he wasn't sure how he would use Anthony, who played most of last season at power forward and won the league scoring title with 28.7 points per game. With Amar'e Stoudemire and newly acquired forward Andrea Bargnani in the mix for playing time, Woodson could move Anthony back to his original position at small forward, though he wouldn't say what his plan is just yet.

"Melo is a player. I could play him at the [two-guard] and he'd be just fine. I don't know where I'm going to play him yet," Woodson said. "I'll play him, I know that, but we have to find two other bodies that fit that starting lineup and who that's going to be at this point, I don't know."

nix, losing JKidd hurt. Amare was a mess at the beginning of the season and Kmart was good. Chandler went down after 1 week. He didn't know what to do with Bargs (who was also trying to round into shape after being in bed for a month with sickness during summer). JR was suspended for the first 5 games and his injury prob kept him much less than 100% for 2-3 months.

I don't call that a similar core.

My point is that he quite simply could've gone with what worked for him when he had Felton, Prigs, Shump, Melo and Tyson or KMart. There was a way to maintain some continuity and not make things harder for himself of the players. No need to mess with Shumps head or force Bargs into the SL when he clearly wasn't in shape yet. I could go on and on. It's easy to bring up the injury to Tyson or Kidd not being there, but this team was KILLING with the Felton, Prigs, Shump, Melo group last year. Even this year the Felton, Prigs, Shump, Melo grouping was one of the most productive lineups in the NBA. Now Woody has done a good job recently, but that doesn't excuse his long period of confusion about what to do with is roster.

Idk whos the starting shooting guard was also assinine

playing beno only in emergency situations = dumbness

there's a laundry list of miscues on woodsons part

misterearl wrote:nixluva - if a head coach decides to employ discipline with a player who needs guidance like Shump, why must it be labelled as "making things harder"?

Isn't the head coaches job to push players past the limits they sometime impose on themselves, to make them better players?

The roster is the job of the General Manager. nixluva - as you constantly ignore losing eight players from last season as insignificant, it only casts a shadow on your opinion as being agenda based.

There is no way you can trivialize the Kidd's positive influence on Felton and Prigioni. Losing the veteran leadership of Kidd , Kurt Thomas, Camby and Sheed, hurt.... unless you make assumptions that everything you see on television is where veteran influence stops.

You would think that Kidd taught Felton and Prigs all they needed to know after 82games together. What did they just forget everything over the summer? I don't have an "agenda". This is getting tired. There are TONS of legit reasons to be down on this coach and none have anything to do with agendas!!! I've written positive threads on Woody's behalf and based on what I saw him do this year i've bashed him for doing a legitimately bad job. There was a riff by you and others that it was the roster and yet we see with no major changes to the roster that this team could indeed play better than it had. I would submit that most of the problems with the team had NOTHING to do with losing vets as if we have nothing but kids on this roster. That's such a lame ass excuse for doing a poor job as a coach.

What's all this crap about losing 8 players. This team wasn't dependent on those vets by the end of the season. Much rather the same core players we have now were the major force for this team last year. IMO the real problem was JR and Felton this year falling off so much and Woody not making better use of the players he did have who were playing well.

        2012-13    2013-14
Melo    28.7       28.1
JR      18.1       13.2
Felton  13.9       9.9
STAT    14.2       11.1
Tyson   10.4       9.2
Shump   6.8        6.7
Novak   6.6  Bargs 13.3
Kidd    6.0    THJ 10.0
Prigs   3.5        4.1

Woody has changed the teams approach quite a bit since the start of the year, but it took him forever to figure out what he wanted to do. Dude just screwed the pooch this year.