knicks1248 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...

Bron is a floor leader, Kd/westbrook have not won championships, infact the championship run against the Heat was a complete joke, and they had no real leader on that team. I recall ppl saying westbrook was wasn't a true leader, he shoots to much blah blah. There a talented team, there going win games off of that alone, but not rings.

It's not just a leader, but more of a leadership, you need 3 or 4 guys on the team that are about there business, professional, know there role and set an example.

We have some talented guys on this team, there just not focus. Blowing 15 2nd half leads, 1-7 in games decided by 3 or less, countless afternoon games where it looks like more than half the team stayed up partying til 5am...It's there mental approach to the game is all fck up..

We don't need a 2nd scorer, we need guys thats going to get other guys good shots,share the rock play hard and smart, communicate.

Who is our "talented guyS"?

We have one talent and a bunch of scrubs.

Scrubs? your talking about JR, who won the 6th man award last season, or felton who led this team to a 54 win season, or tyson who was DPOY less the 2 yrs ago, what about shump who every other Gm wanted to rob NY for..We have no one to lead by example, no one to keep guys focus, and a coach who needs major help from his pg and coaching staff

JR sucks - thats why he gets paid what he gets (by - of course only the knicks)
Felton sucks - thats why he gets paid what he gets (by - of course only the knicks)
Chandler?? - who offered him big money besides the knicks? Who?

Are you happy that we Amnestied CB and got Stiff Chandler?

holfresh wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...

Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.

There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?

Because it's another easy scatological comment you can hang on Melo; when you get tired of talking about whether he's only top 15 or top 20, or efficiency, or assists or isolationism or Olympic mirages or stupidity or connivingness. Here's the list, in case you haven't seen this already:

Leadership.
Making others better.
Generosity.
Sprituality.
Real New Yorkerness.
Forward thinking for the betterment of our general management's decision-making abilities.

More to come in the days ahead.

TeamBall wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...

Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.

There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?

Because it's another easy scatological comment you can hang on Melo; when you get tired of talking about whether he's only top 15 or top 20, or efficiency, or assists or isolationism or Olympic mirages or stupidity or connivingness. Here's the list, in case you haven't seen this already:

Leadership.
Making others better.
Generosity.
Sprituality.
Real New Yorkerness.
Forward thinking for the betterment of our general management's decision-making abilities.

More to come in the days ahead.

Well I don't think that's what I meant

Melo is leading by example. He's leading by putting the ball in the hole. He's leading by rebounding. He's leading in minutes.

We have a leader. We need others to step up and stay healthy with him; see the last game for reference.
Suddenly we have a PG. Suddenly we have a valid PF shooting 65%. Suddenly our 5 is a double double machine. Suddenly our 2 is steady.

We have bench players where they should be. Coming off the bench.

TeamBall wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...

Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.

There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?

Because it's another easy scatological comment you can hang on Melo; when you get tired of talking about whether he's only top 15 or top 20, or efficiency, or assists or isolationism or Olympic mirages or stupidity or connivingness. Here's the list, in case you haven't seen this already:

Leadership.
Making others better.
Generosity.
Sprituality.
Real New Yorkerness.
Forward thinking for the betterment of our general management's decision-making abilities.

More to come in the days ahead.

Well I don't think that's what I meant

Melo is leading by example. He's leading by putting the ball in the hole. He's leading by rebounding. He's leading in minutes.

We have a leader. We need others to step up and stay healthy with him; see the last game for reference.
Suddenly we have a PG. Suddenly we have a valid PF shooting 65%. Suddenly our 5 is a double double machine. Suddenly our 2 is steady.

We have bench players where they should be. Coming off the bench.

No, I'm referring to you saying that my previous post to holfresh was me trying to take a shot at Melo. I don't know where that came from.

My point is the geezers from last year were vastly overrated and flamed out. If you're going to play the Melo zero sum leadership game comparison with this season, I don't think it holds up.

jrodmc wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...

Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.

There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?

Because it's another easy scatological comment you can hang on Melo; when you get tired of talking about whether he's only top 15 or top 20, or efficiency, or assists or isolationism or Olympic mirages or stupidity or connivingness. Here's the list, in case you haven't seen this already:

Leadership.
Making others better.
Generosity.
Sprituality.
Real New Yorkerness.
Forward thinking for the betterment of our general management's decision-making abilities.

More to come in the days ahead.

Well I don't think that's what I meant

Melo is leading by example. He's leading by putting the ball in the hole. He's leading by rebounding. He's leading in minutes.

We have a leader. We need others to step up and stay healthy with him; see the last game for reference.
Suddenly we have a PG. Suddenly we have a valid PF shooting 65%. Suddenly our 5 is a double double machine. Suddenly our 2 is steady.

We have bench players where they should be. Coming off the bench.

No, I'm referring to you saying that my previous post to holfresh was me trying to take a shot at Melo. I don't know where that came from.

Sorry, your response to holfresh sounded an awful lot like some of the drivel in here about how last year's success was all about Rasheed and JKidd and KrazyEyes.

My point is the geezers from last year were vastly overrated and flamed out. If you're going to play the Melo zero sum leadership game comparison with this season, I don't think it holds up.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:0.4 assists in the 4th quarter is not leadership its narcissism

That number sucks but show me assist attempts to back it up. There's two sides to an assist.

I don't know that number but I would figure that his teammates brick shots in the first 3 quarters as well. In the 4th quarter he goes into full blown hero mode which is plain dumb.

And, if you watch the games, you would see that he plainly does not pass the ball in the 4th quarter unless he has no other choice.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:0.4 assists in the 4th quarter is not leadership its narcissism

That number sucks but show me assist attempts to back it up. There's two sides to an assist.

I don't know that number but I would figure that his teammates brick shots in the first 3 quarters as well. In the 4th quarter he goes into full blown hero mode which is plain dumb.

And, if you watch the games, you would see that he plainly does not pass the ball in the 4th quarter unless he has no other choice.

I agree somewhat but it goes game to game. One thing I noticed is that the PnR he runs the more passing he does in the 4th but if its in the high horns action or mid post area the passing dries up. In the low post area it occurs but not as much as it should be. I still think there needs to be more motion involve weak side but he needs to pass more quickly when the help cheats off the post entry passer.

well ... I am not sure its just about motion or placement.

I watch these 4th quarters and I see open men/passes all over the place but he is heads down in shake and bake mode.

He can actually pass if he wants and he is a good passer too. He has to want to pass.

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:0.4 assists in the 4th quarter is not leadership its narcissism

That number sucks but show me assist attempts to back it up. There's two sides to an assist.

I don't know that number but I would figure that his teammates brick shots in the first 3 quarters as well. In the 4th quarter he goes into full blown hero mode which is plain dumb.

And, if you watch the games, you would see that he plainly does not pass the ball in the 4th quarter unless he has no other choice.

I agree somewhat but it goes game to game. One thing I noticed is that the PnR he runs the more passing he does in the 4th but if its in the high horns action or mid post area the passing dries up. In the low post area it occurs but not as much as it should be. I still think there needs to be more motion involve weak side but he needs to pass more quickly when the help cheats off the post entry passer.

well ... I am not sure its just about motion or placement.

I watch these 4th quarters and I see open men/passes all over the place but he is heads down in shake and bake mode.

He can actually pass if he wants and he is a good passer too. He has to want to pass.

And the open men have to hit the open shots, right? Chicken and the egg. [It's the chicken, by the way] The chickens hitting shots during the first 3 quarters will certainly lead toward less hero ball hatching the egg.

Remember the Jared Jeffries incident? I'm sure Melo does.

The man wants to win. Not discover the next John Paxon.

And many of the sets I watch late in games are obviously called for Melo. I doubt all 4 guys are standing around because they can't think of anything else to do. It's frustrating to watch, and I don't care if Melo was Lebron's clone; you're not going to have anyone to pass to if they don't move.

The plays don't call for them to move. They call for them to watch Melo do his thang. Who's fault is that?

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:0.4 assists in the 4th quarter is not leadership its narcissism

That number sucks but show me assist attempts to back it up. There's two sides to an assist.

I don't know that number but I would figure that his teammates brick shots in the first 3 quarters as well. In the 4th quarter he goes into full blown hero mode which is plain dumb.

And, if you watch the games, you would see that he plainly does not pass the ball in the 4th quarter unless he has no other choice.

I agree somewhat but it goes game to game. One thing I noticed is that the PnR he runs the more passing he does in the 4th but if its in the high horns action or mid post area the passing dries up. In the low post area it occurs but not as much as it should be. I still think there needs to be more motion involve weak side but he needs to pass more quickly when the help cheats off the post entry passer.

well ... I am not sure its just about motion or placement.

I watch these 4th quarters and I see open men/passes all over the place but he is heads down in shake and bake mode.

He can actually pass if he wants and he is a good passer too. He has to want to pass.

And the open men have to hit the open shots, right? Chicken and the egg. [It's the chicken, by the way] The chickens hitting shots during the first 3 quarters will certainly lead toward less hero ball hatching the egg.

Remember the Jared Jeffries incident? I'm sure Melo does.

The man wants to win. Not discover the next John Paxon.

And many of the sets I watch late in games are obviously called for Melo. I doubt all 4 guys are standing around because they can't think of anything else to do. It's frustrating to watch, and I don't care if Melo was Lebron's clone; you're not going to have anyone to pass to if they don't move.

The plays don't call for them to move. They call for them to watch Melo do his thang. Who's fault is that?

Obviously Melo's, since he's the coach calling the plays, as well the PG directing the offense. Maybe if they could hit a shot consistently, they wouldn't be watching Melo do his thang.

Go for 4 in a row.

sarcasm is just avoiding the question.

The coach is an idiot for allowing this sh1t. And, we don't have a PG to do any directing.

They certainly can't shoot but we can still move the ball to get better shots. We probably can do better than Melo's 38% contested chucks in the 4th quarter. Think that as anything to do with 0.4 assists? When I play ball and I know that x player will not pass, I will leave my man everytime knowing that I won't get burned.

I defend Melo alot but I have no problem calling him out when I see something wrong. Would you ever call him out? He has played like crap in the 4th quarter. Minutes, bad cast etc ... all true. Any of it on him?

Go for 4 in a row (You doing your Earl? )

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:0.4 assists in the 4th quarter is not leadership its narcissism

That number sucks but show me assist attempts to back it up. There's two sides to an assist.

I don't know that number but I would figure that his teammates brick shots in the first 3 quarters as well. In the 4th quarter he goes into full blown hero mode which is plain dumb.

And, if you watch the games, you would see that he plainly does not pass the ball in the 4th quarter unless he has no other choice.

I agree somewhat but it goes game to game. One thing I noticed is that the PnR he runs the more passing he does in the 4th but if its in the high horns action or mid post area the passing dries up. In the low post area it occurs but not as much as it should be. I still think there needs to be more motion involve weak side but he needs to pass more quickly when the help cheats off the post entry passer.

well ... I am not sure its just about motion or placement.

I watch these 4th quarters and I see open men/passes all over the place but he is heads down in shake and bake mode.

He can actually pass if he wants and he is a good passer too. He has to want to pass.

And the open men have to hit the open shots, right? Chicken and the egg. [It's the chicken, by the way] The chickens hitting shots during the first 3 quarters will certainly lead toward less hero ball hatching the egg.

Remember the Jared Jeffries incident? I'm sure Melo does.

The man wants to win. Not discover the next John Paxon.

And many of the sets I watch late in games are obviously called for Melo. I doubt all 4 guys are standing around because they can't think of anything else to do. It's frustrating to watch, and I don't care if Melo was Lebron's clone; you're not going to have anyone to pass to if they don't move.

The plays don't call for them to move. They call for them to watch Melo do his thang. Who's fault is that?

Obviously Melo's, since he's the coach calling the plays, as well the PG directing the offense. Maybe if they could hit a shot consistently, they wouldn't be watching Melo do his thang.

Go for 4 in a row.

sarcasm is just avoiding the question.

The coach is an idiot for allowing this sh1t. And, we don't have a PG to do any directing.

They certainly can't shoot but we can still move the ball to get better shots. We probably can do better than Melo's 38% contested chucks in the 4th quarter. Think that as anything to do with 0.4 assists? When I play ball and I know that x player will not pass, I will leave my man everytime knowing that I won't get burned.

I defend Melo alot but I have no problem calling him out when I see something wrong. Would you ever call him out? He has played like crap in the 4th quarter. Minutes, bad cast etc ... all true. Any of it on him?

Go for 4 in a row (You doing your Earl? )

Always (I normally properly copyright everything, but I'm distracted by all this winning)