JonsTintedTails wrote:It's ok we will still get Collison. We will just give up a 1st for it

NO more giving up 1st rounders for marginal players. I liked Collison in comparison to Felton. Don't get me wrong he is not a very good player. He is just better than what we have at this time. Part of the reason I liked the trade is Bullock and getting Felton contract off our 2015 books.

Clean wrote:

JonsTintedTails wrote:It's ok we will still get Collison. We will just give up a 1st for it

NO more giving up 1st rounders for marginal players. I liked Collison in comparison to Felton. Don't get me wrong he is not a very good player. He is just better than what we have at this time. Part of the reason I liked the trade is Bullock and getting Felton contract off our 2015 books.

Yeah well, doesn't look like that'll be happening now, although maybe we still have a shot at this -- maybe we scale it down to just include the two principles, Shumpert for Collison. I think I still do that trade. I value Shumpert more than some but 2 things: his knee concerns me and he's regressed so badly this year...I also value Collison a lot more than than most too... With Shump's injury now, re-work the proposal to allow the Clips to keep Bullock and remove Felton from the equation -- they may still pass but that definitely makes it easier for them to pull the trigger. I mean if they really want Iman, provided the MRI doesn't show any major damage, just get him and rehab him for a couple of weeks and then Doc has his guy well before for the playoffs even begin. Wouldn't be the first time in history a team has ever acquired an injured player in a trade.

Then we turn around and replace Shumpert with either Glen Rice Jr. or Jordan Hamilton, whichever guy we could get in the Beno trade. I think Rice Jr. might be a little better fit -- he's a natural SG like Shump yet big enough for the 3 at 6'6", he's more athletic than Hamilton, quicker & probably a better slasher off the dribble yet Hamilton's more of a pure shooter and bigger (if we want to continue using Melo at the 4 and he's retained long-term, Hamilton might be the better fit to slide in at the 3 next to Melo, with JR & THJ locking down the 2 spot). Either way we couldn't go wrong -- either guy is nice value in exchange for Udrih and might wind up being a better player than Shumpert. Either way we'd get a nice young wing with upside to replace Shumpert in the lineup. Both guys are comparable to Reggie Bullock too btw..

If he gets traded to Clips, Doc will transform Shump into what we all think he should be.

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:is fine... keep him. Such a sell low... better to get him healthy. He will play better under the next coach

It's not selling low if your value has never been high. Shump has always been a 39% 9 PPG player who can't run the offense at PG or shoot like an SG. He's athletic looking and can jump high but that doesn't get you anything on the scoreboard.

first time for agreeing on something. shump is vastly overrated around here.

Going back and forth on Shump in my head for awhile now -- I think he still has value--I mean the Clippers want him, even with him having a terrible season. I don't think he's by any means done as a player...Coming into the year, his jumper had become a real strength and that Texas swing he had (our best stretch of the year by far thanks to him) shows he still has value but then there's concern with a few things -- the knee, the fact that he just can't take the ball to the rim and finish well with any regularity despite above-average athleticism, the fact that he's not a great passer or facilitator, the fact that he's fallen out of favor with the owner from Summer League, the fact that he and Woody don't seem to mix well (Woody starts him but this offense he runs is not conducive for him to perform well at all), etc. --- there's uncertainty and downside here too.

I can see why some might think it's selling low based on his age, upside & prior success but I'm thinking now, esp. after this knee sprain, that if we can get Darren Collison for him, that might be adequate value in return. We'd stabilize the PG spot with a pretty good option and then if we could get a Rice Jr. or Jordan Hamilton in another trade to replace Shump, that makes losing him even easier to swallow.

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:is fine... keep him. Such a sell low... better to get him healthy. He will play better under the next coach

It's not selling low if your value has never been high. Shump has always been a 39% 9 PPG player who can't run the offense at PG or shoot like an SG. He's athletic looking and can jump high but that doesn't get you anything on the scoreboard.

first time for agreeing on something. shump is vastly overrated around here.

He is not overrated he is underrated. Wait til he is traded and we are subjected to watching jr smith, THJ and Felton guard the perimeter

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:is fine... keep him. Such a sell low... better to get him healthy. He will play better under the next coach

It's not selling low if your value has never been high. Shump has always been a 39% 9 PPG player who can't run the offense at PG or shoot like an SG. He's athletic looking and can jump high but that doesn't get you anything on the scoreboard.

first time for agreeing on something. shump is vastly overrated around here.

He is not overrated he is underrated. Wait til he is traded and we are subjected to watching jr smith, THJ and Felton guard the perimeter

Shumpert's defense isn't good anymore and his offense isn't either. JR and TH Jr at least do some things well. I didn't want him to be injured but I'm glad he's out of the lineup.

Oh really? The. Why did the Knicks blow a 13pt lead the second Shumpert went down? Shumpert held Eric Gordon scoreless. He finished with 28. Same for Austin rivers. Also went off once Shumpert left. You guys need to open your eyes when you watch these games. NBA is not only about scoring. You have to be able to stop your opponent. You should know that

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:is fine... keep him. Such a sell low... better to get him healthy. He will play better under the next coach

It's not selling low if your value has never been high. Shump has always been a 39% 9 PPG player who can't run the offense at PG or shoot like an SG. He's athletic looking and can jump high but that doesn't get you anything on the scoreboard.

first time for agreeing on something. shump is vastly overrated around here.

He is not overrated he is underrated. Wait til he is traded and we are subjected to watching jr smith, THJ and Felton guard the perimeter

Shumpert's defense isn't good anymore and his offense isn't either. JR and TH Jr at least do some things well. I didn't want him to be injured but I'm glad he's out of the lineup.

His ISO defense has not been nearly as good as it was before theACL injury. His rookie year I believe he was the best ISO defender according to statistics. In ISO's I remember people having something like a 25% shooting percentage against him. His rotational D was always TERRIBLE. Now he is an avg at best ISO defender and with the same bad Rotational D.

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:is fine... keep him. Such a sell low... better to get him healthy. He will play better under the next coach

It's not selling low if your value has never been high. Shump has always been a 39% 9 PPG player who can't run the offense at PG or shoot like an SG. He's athletic looking and can jump high but that doesn't get you anything on the scoreboard.

first time for agreeing on something. shump is vastly overrated around here.

He is not overrated he is underrated. Wait til he is traded and we are subjected to watching jr smith, THJ and Felton guard the perimeter

Shumpert's defense isn't good anymore and his offense isn't either. JR and TH Jr at least do some things well. I didn't want him to be injured but I'm glad he's out of the lineup.

Oh really? The. Why did the Knicks blow a 13pt lead the second Shumpert went down? Shumpert held Eric Gordon scoreless. He finished with 28. Same for Austin rivers. Also went off once Shumpert left. You guys need to open your eyes when you watch these games. NBA is not only about scoring. You have to be able to stop your opponent. You should know that

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:is fine... keep him. Such a sell low... better to get him healthy. He will play better under the next coach

It's not selling low if your value has never been high. Shump has always been a 39% 9 PPG player who can't run the offense at PG or shoot like an SG. He's athletic looking and can jump high but that doesn't get you anything on the scoreboard.

first time for agreeing on something. shump is vastly overrated around here.

He is not overrated he is underrated. Wait til he is traded and we are subjected to watching jr smith, THJ and Felton guard the perimeter

Shumpert's defense isn't good anymore and his offense isn't either. JR and TH Jr at least do some things well. I didn't want him to be injured but I'm glad he's out of the lineup.

Oh really? The. Why did the Knicks blow a 13pt lead the second Shumpert went down? Shumpert held Eric Gordon scoreless. He finished with 28. Same for Austin rivers. Also went off once Shumpert left. You guys need to open your eyes when you watch these games. NBA is not only about scoring. You have to be able to stop your opponent. You should know that

I will tell you that is just one game and that Shump has several flaws I his defensive game. He sags off his man to much leaving them open for jumpers, he gets lost on screens, is not the best pnr player, and etc. He is the wing version of Bargs. Now maybe on another team you can just let him guard the ball handler where he excels at. Gordan and Rivers beat the knicks off the dribble not running around.

I would blame Woodson for not. Our guards look worse defensively then they really are because of the stupid switching

Even with everything you pointed out none of our guys can defend like Shumpert. Not even close

gunsnewing wrote:Also as fish pointed out. Even with Shumperts struggles he is a + player whereas THJ, jr and Felton are -

Because he defends. Neither of those other guys play a lock of defensive

I don't like that + stat a lot. It also depends on who you play with. If Shump who starts plays with Melo more time than not he is gonna have a better + number. THJ comes off the bench with JR and we all know how bad JR and Amare was until recently. That stat has a ton of flaws.

gunsnewing wrote:Well we will find out now that he is injured