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We need a pg
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knicks1248
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2/3/2014  11:11 AM
Felon is just another inconsistent player on the knicks, there are times he looks great, and times he looks like a 35 yr old player.

Obviously the knicks would love to upgrade that position, but since were not deep at any position, were does the sacrifice come from?

ES
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fishmike
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2/3/2014  11:14 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Felon is just another inconsistent player on the knicks, there are times he looks great, and times he looks like a 35 yr old player.

Obviously the knicks would love to upgrade that position, but since were not deep at any position, were does the sacrifice come from?

instead of getting better he has gotten worse every year. Nothing new to his game.. he does everything he does when he first came into the league, just slower, fatter and less athletic and more injury prone.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CrushAlot
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2/3/2014  11:17 AM
Finestrg wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Oh my god... If we are looking for a backup center when we already have Tyler amare Martin ... What is wrong with this franchise a back up center is the last thing we need...how stupid can our franchise really be... As die hard fans we need to start chants at msg during the game like get us a point guard not a back up center... Or if anyone on this board is a writer or works for the New York Knicks... Please start a petition to trade Felton for a point guard or just get a point guard ... And really we made a run at Bynum what is wrong with our front office like Bynum would help our team more then Tyler .... Next home game lets start chants "we need a pg" and "Felton sucks" ...if we trade shump for a back up center I'm going to loose it...

I am hoping it is just berman speculating. I am hoping they trade tyson for a package that includes a point.

Read that too and thought the exact same thing. With Amar'e/Martin then Tyler/Aldrich behind them, there are plenty of options for backup C. Totally agree -- it's the last thing we need. The PG spot could use upgrading. My thing all along -- I don't think we need a major trade to accomplish this. 2 sensible moves would be (1) execute a sensible trade with N.O. for Pierre Jackson and (2) sign Kalin Lucas to a contract. The Lowry deal would be a much larger trade with more important assets involved. Why not execute a couple of lesser moves just to see if we can come up with an upgrade going this route? P-Jax and Kalin Lucas are good young PGs with talent. I guess I'm in the minority but I'd rather roll with either one of these guys on the fly the rest of the way over anything we currently have at the position.


Read an article on Lucas on Ridicuous Upside. Sounds like he outplayed marquis Teague when the bulls sent him down. They have him ranked third on their point guard prospect watch. I would love if the Knicks got Pierre or gave this guy a chance.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Finestrg
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2/3/2014  12:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2014  1:22 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Felon is just another inconsistent player on the knicks, there are times he looks great, and times he looks like a 35 yr old player.

Obviously the knicks would love to upgrade that position, but since were not deep at any position, were does the sacrifice come from?

Think about this logically concerning a potential trade for Pierre Jackson --

What would the price tag honestly be for this guy? Under 6' PG who's never played an NBA game -- apparently both are issues to some, not really for me. Knicks definitely should use both of these points to their advantage in negotiations though.. I can't picture the price tag being overly high -- price tag would probably be much higher for Kyle Lowry for example...They're not gonna want Felton -- he's been hurt, played poorly and makes too much money -- although I'm definitely open to trading him there. Maybe I'm wrong -- Holiday went down about a month ago with a leg stress fracture and is out indefinitely...Even though they like Brian Roberts (18 assist game last year for the Pels and he can really shoot it) and let Evans handle it somewhat, they might be on the lookout for something more here. Then again, Holiday has a lot of money committed to him and should be back sooner than later (Tyson Chandler only missed about a month and a half with a similar injury). I highly doubt they'd be interested in Felton but we should be able to entice them with guys like Beno Udrih (hasn't played well for us at all but I still think he has value around the league--remember how we all felt when we heard we got him--we all thought we got the steal of the century), Toure Murry (generally looked good when he's played), cash (oddly, they needlessly lost a sum of cash when they traded for Tyshawn Taylor and then dumped him---still don't understand why they made that deal with Brooklyn--either you make the trade and hold onto Taylor or you don't make the deal at all and they didn't have to. Very strange), maybe Cole Aldrich/Jeremy Tyler (I'd prefer to hold onto both guys but for P-Jax, I'd put either on the table. Are they still looking for help at center? Would Aldrich/Tyler be better than Stiemsma/Ajinca? Maybe - both of our guys have played well recently). Throw in a future 2nd rounder as an additional sweetner (as far as I'm willing to go) -- you would think this should be enough to trade for Jackson.

Who knows -- maybe not, but we'll never know unless we call and inquire. Doesn't look like the Pels are all that interested in P-Jax -- why wasn't he called up a month ago immediately after Holiday went down? If I had to speculate -- I'd say N.O. soured on this kid after they traded for him in the draft. Jackson voiced some displeasure about the logjam in New Orleans' backcourt and chose to go to France instead of signing with the Pelicans:

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/2013/07/report-ex-baylor-guard-pierre-jackson-leaves-crowded-back-court-in-new-orleans-for-french-team.html/

Never played a game in France btw. Got homesick and opted for the DL instead, with New Orleans retaining his rights...Now recently, with Jackson dominating the DL and the Pels refusing to call him up, esp. with Holiday out, Jackson and his representation were said to be seeking a trade.

That's it in a nutshell with this guy. I think he's obtainable and I think we have the pieces to put something together here. Do it!! Complete no brainer. With no picks and only the $3mm cash allotment, I doubt very much that we can get a PG in the draft as good as Jackson. Picks will continue to go at a premium and remember--we may not have assets like Udrih/Aldrich/Murry/Tyler to deal this summer like we have now. All of these guys could be off the team by then...And if we do, whatever players we chose to retain will be re-upped at a higher contract, making them look less attractive...Make the most of this situation now.

Finestrg
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2/3/2014  12:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2014  1:45 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Oh my god... If we are looking for a backup center when we already have Tyler amare Martin ... What is wrong with this franchise a back up center is the last thing we need...how stupid can our franchise really be... As die hard fans we need to start chants at msg during the game like get us a point guard not a back up center... Or if anyone on this board is a writer or works for the New York Knicks... Please start a petition to trade Felton for a point guard or just get a point guard ... And really we made a run at Bynum what is wrong with our front office like Bynum would help our team more then Tyler .... Next home game lets start chants "we need a pg" and "Felton sucks" ...if we trade shump for a back up center I'm going to loose it...

I am hoping it is just berman speculating. I am hoping they trade tyson for a package that includes a point.

Read that too and thought the exact same thing. With Amar'e/Martin then Tyler/Aldrich behind them, there are plenty of options for backup C. Totally agree -- it's the last thing we need. The PG spot could use upgrading. My thing all along -- I don't think we need a major trade to accomplish this. 2 sensible moves would be (1) execute a sensible trade with N.O. for Pierre Jackson and (2) sign Kalin Lucas to a contract. The Lowry deal would be a much larger trade with more important assets involved. Why not execute a couple of lesser moves just to see if we can come up with an upgrade going this route? P-Jax and Kalin Lucas are good young PGs with talent. I guess I'm in the minority but I'd rather roll with either one of these guys on the fly the rest of the way over anything we currently have at the position.


Read an article on Lucas on Ridicuous Upside. Sounds like he outplayed marquis Teague when the bulls sent him down. They have him ranked third on their point guard prospect watch. I would love if the Knicks got Pierre or gave this guy a chance.

Absolutely bro. Here's the instant PG upgrade for this team--both Jackson & Lucas together. And we wouldn't have to trade a 1st round pick or Shumpert etc. to bring either guy here.

Saw the Ridiculous Upside article you mentioned btw. I think that's accurate -- esp. the 1st 3. Been saying it all along -- Seth Curry is a guy we should be looking at as well. Too bad this Dee Bost shoots such a low % from the floor, even going back to college. I like his game otherwise.

I think Lucas is a guy who could be a real steady, sure-handed, quick PG in the NBA. Could be a real nice backup to a guy like Jackson. You're right -- he definitely has played a tad better since Marquis Teague got recalled and then traded by the Bulls to the Nets. That Iowa squad is his to run now. Dude just had a 30 pt. game a few days back...I dunno -- to me, Pierre Jackson backed up by Kalin Lucas would instantly turn our PG position into a strength. And the price to find out is so negligible -- we should be able to get Jackson w/o giving up a 1st rounder or anyone like Shumpert or THJ. And Lucas would just be a call-up on a 10-day contract. Again, complete no brainer here..

playa2
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2/3/2014  12:33 PM
The way Ray Ray is built (short stump) it's easy to set a pick on him and with the weight he isn't as quick to recover.

Also he's from Latta S.C, not that that means anything personal, he just has a small time mindset after winning it all at Univ North Carolina.

Knicks need a pg from a big city like NY, LA or Chicago

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
knicks1248
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2/3/2014  1:48 PM
The problem with just grabbing any young pg to play with melo is not going to work, you almost certainly need an above avg veteran pg.

You want me to believe that just because a pg is faster and more athletic then felton he would be a better option, I highly doubt it.

We won 54 games with a pg who just retired, If woodson is our coach we need to focus on a pg with a very high IQ, not some run of the mill d-league player who has a little potential

ES
fitzfarm
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2/3/2014  1:54 PM
knicks1248 wrote:The problem with just grabbing any young pg to play with melo is not going to work, you almost certainly need an above avg veteran pg.

You want me to believe that just because a pg is faster and more athletic then felton he would be a better option, I highly doubt it.

We won 54 games with a pg who just retired, If woodson is our coach we need to focus on a pg with a very high IQ, not some run of the mill d-league player who has a little potential

It would be nice to get Lowry but I don't wanna give up our youth, Kendall marshal from the d league is averaging 10 and 9 assist a game ... Pierre Jackson is a better prospect if he came in I bet 15 and 8.. And he is better then Felton it would be a automatic upgrade

CrushAlot
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2/3/2014  1:57 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The problem with just grabbing any young pg to play with melo is not going to work, you almost certainly need an above avg veteran pg.

You want me to believe that just because a pg is faster and more athletic then felton he would be a better option, I highly doubt it.

We won 54 games with a pg who just retired, If woodson is our coach we need to focus on a pg with a very high IQ, not some run of the mill d-league player who has a little potential

It would be nice to get Lowry but I don't wanna give up our youth, Kendall marshal from the d league is averaging 10 and 9 assist a game ... Pierre Jackson is a better prospect if he came in I bet 15 and 8.. And he is better then Felton it would be a automatic upgrade

Marshall has been great for the Lakers. Not sure why the Knicks would let a guy one year removed from being a lottery pick sign somewhere else. I like Toure but come on. If you are committed to him waive someone else. Marshall has been compared to MJax.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fitzfarm
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2/3/2014  1:57 PM
I love this d league it's like the aaa minor league in baseball... There's hidden gems that can blossom into stars or really nice role players wish the nba did this a lot longer ago...
fitzfarm
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2/3/2014  2:01 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The problem with just grabbing any young pg to play with melo is not going to work, you almost certainly need an above avg veteran pg.

You want me to believe that just because a pg is faster and more athletic then felton he would be a better option, I highly doubt it.

We won 54 games with a pg who just retired, If woodson is our coach we need to focus on a pg with a very high IQ, not some run of the mill d-league player who has a little potential

It would be nice to get Lowry but I don't wanna give up our youth, Kendall marshal from the d league is averaging 10 and 9 assist a game ... Pierre Jackson is a better prospect if he came in I bet 15 and 8.. And he is better then Felton it would be a automatic upgrade

Marshall has been great for the Lakers. Not sure why the Knicks would let a guy one year removed from being a lottery pick sign somewhere else. I like Toure but come on. If you are committed to him waive someone else. Marshall has been compared to MJax.

I like murry but he's got a little way to go.. He's really got to work on his handle, love his court vision and his driving ability... He needs to work on his shot as well... Pierre Jackson is more nba ready

Finestrg
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2/3/2014  2:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2014  2:24 PM
knicks1248 wrote:The problem with just grabbing any young pg to play with melo is not going to work, you almost certainly need an above avg veteran pg.

You want me to believe that just because a pg is faster and more athletic then felton he would be a better option, I highly doubt it.

We won 54 games with a pg who just retired, If woodson is our coach we need to focus on a pg with a very high IQ, not some run of the mill d-league player who has a little potential

Yeah, and how did that over-the-hill PG look the 2nd half of the season & the playoffs when it all counted? Like garbage...Woody was forced to sit him.. Come on man -- there's a reason this guy retired. Proper chemistry with a guy like Melo is important, no argument, but why can't a younger, quicker PG establish chemistry with NBA veterans? Where does it say that can't happen? My guess -- Melo would love to play with some more younger, dynamic players...Look at how Melo reacts to playing with THJ. You can read it all over his face. He loves that kid. Younger guys can really reinvigorate/galvanize older players & an older team that's lost it's way. The moment optimum excitement is infused back into a team, everyone starts playing better and everyone starts feeling better about what their doing out there. That's what I'd be banking on with a guy like Jackson.

• Sensible trade for Pierre Jackson. Give him the keys to the bus.
• Call up Kalin Lucas. Backs up P-Jax. When he performs well, sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal.
• Call up Devin Ebanks. When he performs well, 2 or 3 year deal for this guy as well.

Give me those 3 moves, along with a commitment to keep playing THJ & Jeremy Tyler (Cole Aldrich too. It's a shame -- this guy can help us, I've been saying it for weeks). If we did this and stayed the course, I guarantee everyone would feel a whole lot better about things moving forward, including Melo.

earthmansurfer
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2/3/2014  2:23 PM
I remember the numbers that guy put up in college. I think he can really play at this level.

He would be a crowd favorite, and I think there in lies the problem. Our last PG that was a crowd favorite was allowed to walk.
I just don't see management bringing in a PG who might go down the same route. Which is interesting considering where the team
stands we have no chance at doing much in the playoffs. What have we got to lose, really?
You never know, we might have a gift fall into our lapse twice at the PG position...

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
CrushAlot
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2/3/2014  2:29 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:I remember the numbers that guy put up in college. I think he can really play at this level.

He would be a crowd favorite, and I think there in lies the problem. Our last PG that was a crowd favorite was allowed to walk.
I just don't see management bringing in a PG who might go down the same route. Which is interesting considering where the team
stands we have no chance at doing much in the playoffs. What have we got to lose, really?
You never know, we might have a gift fall into our lapse twice at the PG position...

Not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying if they bring one of these guys up and they do well that they will sign a deal that the Knicks can't match?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fitzfarm
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2/3/2014  2:58 PM
This line up would be awesome,
P jax,Pablo
Thjr,jr
Dang,shump
Melo,Martin
Tyler,amare

I know this is fantasy, but trade chandler for dang both teams do it because it gives us a nice sf that can come off the books chandler makes Cleveland good defensively and gives them vet leadership and it works via trade machine espn. Also look how young that team is and has potential to be real good for a long time. Three starters in there low 20s with good balance of vets off the bench .. I know it's un realistic but I can dream lol

BigRedDog
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2/3/2014  3:18 PM
I still would like the knicks get Nate Wohlters from the bucks.
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
jrodmc
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2/3/2014  3:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2014  3:22 PM
To the OP: No **** sherlock.

We could use a back up center and another max player while you're sitting on Santa's lap, too.

earthmansurfer
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2/3/2014  3:32 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:I remember the numbers that guy put up in college. I think he can really play at this level.

He would be a crowd favorite, and I think there in lies the problem. Our last PG that was a crowd favorite was allowed to walk.
I just don't see management bringing in a PG who might go down the same route. Which is interesting considering where the team
stands we have no chance at doing much in the playoffs. What have we got to lose, really?
You never know, we might have a gift fall into our lapse twice at the PG position...

Not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying if they bring one of these guys up and they do well that they will sign a deal that the Knicks can't match?

I'm just saying Felton is not so great and we are not going to get far in the playoffs with him at PG. We have little to lose by taking a chance on a kid like Jackson.
What he did in college and what he is doing in the D-League is not an aberration. So, instead of hoping for Felton to play at a level he has only played at for 10 games
or so in his career, why not see what Jackson can do while we still have time?

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
CrushAlot
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2/3/2014  3:45 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:I remember the numbers that guy put up in college. I think he can really play at this level.

He would be a crowd favorite, and I think there in lies the problem. Our last PG that was a crowd favorite was allowed to walk.
I just don't see management bringing in a PG who might go down the same route. Which is interesting considering where the team
stands we have no chance at doing much in the playoffs. What have we got to lose, really?
You never know, we might have a gift fall into our lapse twice at the PG position...

Not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying if they bring one of these guys up and they do well that they will sign a deal that the Knicks can't match?

I'm just saying Felton is not so great and we are not going to get far in the playoffs with him at PG. We have little to lose by taking a chance on a kid like Jackson.
What he did in college and what he is doing in the D-League is not an aberration. So, instead of hoping for Felton to play at a level he has only played at for 10 games
or so in his career, why not see what Jackson can do while we still have time?

I agree. Not sure how a team acquires him. His situation is unique in that he doesn't have a salary slot. The Knicks would probably have to send a draft pick or cash. Not sure if the Pelicans would be interested in what picks are left.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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2/3/2014  3:55 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The problem with just grabbing any young pg to play with melo is not going to work, you almost certainly need an above avg veteran pg.

You want me to believe that just because a pg is faster and more athletic then felton he would be a better option, I highly doubt it.

We won 54 games with a pg who just retired, If woodson is our coach we need to focus on a pg with a very high IQ, not some run of the mill d-league player who has a little potential

It would be nice to get Lowry but I don't wanna give up our youth, Kendall marshal from the d league is averaging 10 and 9 assist a game ... Pierre Jackson is a better prospect if he came in I bet 15 and 8.. And he is better then Felton it would be a automatic upgrade

A guy with no NBA experience whos the size of a squirrel is going to be an instant upgrade to Felton? Is that really what your saying?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
We need a pg

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