H1AND1 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:um no, not the dumbest thread ever. i agree with everything he's saying. why don't we just have a team in the nba then where lebron, wade, blake griffin, chris paul and chris hibbert are all on the same team?

what kind of league is that???? The fact that they had an understanding that they'd all join Miami, that's as close to "collusion" as you'll get. Second of all, he made it seem like it was such a tough decision??? really come on now.
thirdly, he had to make a ****in show of it??? "THE DECISION". (read prima donna)
fourthly, he's a drama queen on the floor. i have a lot more respect for kobe. lebron will never be the player kobe was in his prime.

best player in the league today doesn't mean best player in recent history. kobe has that hands down. more game winners, more clutch playoff performances than anyone in recent history in the league.

lebron.... not so hot.

What do you think you would be saying if Shaq, Kobe and Jason Kidd were all on the same team in their prime together? are you kidding me, even MJ's Bulls wouldn't be able to beat that.

You are talking about Lebron leading his team to the NBA finals as a Cav, uh yeah and what happened in the finals... didn't he get swept? Do you think THAT would ever happen to Magic, MJ, Kobe?

Listen I can't stand Lebron as much as the next Knick fan. "The Decision" was a spectacularly bad PR stunt. An epic, epic fail. Collusion? You're talking about 3 friends talking about and then actually playing together. Ok, yeah, it's collusion but you really think they are the only guys who've ever done it?

And did you really compare that Cav's team to the Showtime lakers, Jordan's Bulls, and Birds Celtics? Those are legendary teams with multiple HOF'ers. That entire CLE starting lineup besides Lebron wouldn't even get PT on any of those teams. Look over the roster again, that CLE team made it to the finals because of Lebron, period. That roster was putrid.

H1AND1 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Pippen was a spectacularly great 2 way player and absolutely a top 10 player when playng with Jordan. Is post 28 year old Wade really better than Pippen? Not so sure.

Secondly, love him or hate him, if the Heat only had Wade and Bosh they arent even close to being a championship quality team. The Heat win because Lebron brings it all together. Lebron is a beast and the best player on Earth (with Durant coming up behind him fast). The argument that the "greats" of the past wouldn't deign playing together in no way invalidates how good of a baller Lebron is because it actually showed foresight on Lebron's part. Championship teams ALMOST ALWAYS have two ( or more ) great players. In that sense him joining two other great players in Miami was not some cowardly cop out but actually good foresight. He saw how difficult it was going it alone in CLE. Look back at every championship squad going back 30 years and you'll see rosters with 2 (or more) absolutely elite basketball players + solid role players.

and how many of those teams had 2 or more of those superstar players sign with the same team in the same year of free agency?

However it happened they had superstar players. That's all I'm saying. To win in the NBA you _generally_ need 2 stars. There are exceptions but history bears this out. I guess I don't really care if players talk about playing together privately then make it happen. Real talk if Bosh/LBJ/Wade all conspired together to sign with the Knicks would you be mad? With 3 finals trips and 2 chips? I wouldn't.

actually, i would be a little mad, because i believe in fair competition? if i play doubles in tennis or racquetball, and i am the best player of the group, i always pick the worst player in the group to be my partner. otherwise what's the point of winning when you already know the end result.

someone who is AS competitive and AS motivated as someone like lebron, wade, bosh.... why would they take that away from themselves? where's the sense of accomplishment? pretty sure in their subconscious (if they are truly not douchebags), they feel that their championships were a little hollow.

Nalod wrote:I'd say Pau is a future HOF'er. Not many big men in this era. His 7 years in Memphis reduced some of his cred but 2 championships weigh big and if anything his international play will help him a lot.

Its the Basketball HOF, not just NBA.

fitzfarm wrote:I'm sorry, do you think Ewing would have joined Jordan, or Hakeem would have joined Malone and Stockton. Or magic joining bird or issah ..not a chance Not only did they hate each other they were loyal... And wanted to prove they were the best vs each other. Lbj is a coward, duche if he didn't have wade or bosh no championship he'd still be a loser. Jordan was the best and he did it with pippen who was not in the same caliber as wade, and grant and Luke Longly aren't in the same caliber as bosh.. Hence lbj sucks balls he knew he wasn't as good as Jordan he had to join forces to win and they won't even be a dynasty like Jordan

Nice fable to think this.

You lost me at "LBJ sucks balls".........

Read my reprint of the Harry Araton article in this thread http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46704

Ewing was all of what you said and guys like that, and Jordan are egocentric and sometimes sociopathic in their quest to "win". "Winning" is not just done on the court, its also getting a 100 million dollar contract!!!

EWing made demands on the knicks to win and put a roster around him as did Lebron. Ewing did not leave and persue free agency at age 33 cuz he knew the knicks would pay him more than anyone as he headlined a profitable franchise. I don't doubt his intention to win, but there were limits. If he accepted a smaller role on the offense maybe we could have gone further? Wilt did this back in the day with the lakers and Kareem accepted a smaller role with ShowTime.

Lebron left his hometown high and dry to persue the quest. I hate the way he did it and hoped he would have decided on picking the knicks. Honestly would anyone have had a problem with Jordan if he instead came to New York instead of his second Repeat?

Cartman718 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Pippen was a spectacularly great 2 way player and absolutely a top 10 player when playng with Jordan. Is post 28 year old Wade really better than Pippen? Not so sure.

Secondly, love him or hate him, if the Heat only had Wade and Bosh they arent even close to being a championship quality team. The Heat win because Lebron brings it all together. Lebron is a beast and the best player on Earth (with Durant coming up behind him fast). The argument that the "greats" of the past wouldn't deign playing together in no way invalidates how good of a baller Lebron is because it actually showed foresight on Lebron's part. Championship teams ALMOST ALWAYS have two ( or more ) great players. In that sense him joining two other great players in Miami was not some cowardly cop out but actually good foresight. He saw how difficult it was going it alone in CLE. Look back at every championship squad going back 30 years and you'll see rosters with 2 (or more) absolutely elite basketball players + solid role players.

and how many of those teams had 2 or more of those superstar players sign with the same team in the same year of free agency?

However it happened they had superstar players. That's all I'm saying. To win in the NBA you _generally_ need 2 stars. There are exceptions but history bears this out. I guess I don't really care if players talk about playing together privately then make it happen. Real talk if Bosh/LBJ/Wade all conspired together to sign with the Knicks would you be mad? With 3 finals trips and 2 chips? I wouldn't.

actually, i would be a little mad, because i believe in fair competition? if i play doubles in tennis or racquetball, and i am the best player of the group, i always pick the worst player in the group to be my partner. otherwise what's the point of winning when you already know the end result.

someone who is AS competitive and AS motivated as someone like lebron, wade, bosh.... why would they take that away from themselves? where's the sense of accomplishment? pretty sure in their subconscious (if they are truly not douchebags), they feel that their championships were a little hollow.

Its not like the Heat's path was a cakewalk thru the park. If time and time again you had no hope of winning it might mess with the fun you have.

If you are playing for fun thats one thing. If your playing USTA match and have no hope in your partner maybe you seek another.

Like Andrew said, these guys are not playing for fun. After seeing what lebron had to do I don't doubt he had to put a max effort to achieve that.

Today's NBA with the CBA the landscape of teams and their rosters can change quickly. But if Wade does not retire and still declines, and Bosh wants to finally get paid then its possible Lebron can't see winning next year in Miami, or the year after and decides to bolt.

Knowing the sociopath Jordan is I kind of think in todays NBA he might have followed a similar path if he did not have a younger wingman like pippen. Pip was a 6-8 lock down defender who could cover the opponents best player. Jordan was a top notch defender and that combonation allowed a great luxury for PJax defensive schematics.

It would be shallow if he went to LA or NY (i'd like it though) but it would be cool if he went back to Cleveland and won there.

fishmike wrote:I have always hated ring chasers... I always felt going without your whole career was better then winning one as a tag along. If GP or Karl Malone won a ring with the Lakers would people look more favorably on their careers? Or would you just ack that they were great players who chased a ring and got one with the Lakers?

That being said I dont view LBJ as this. I just see the Lebron sitation as totally unique. Rather then wait for Gilbert to build him a title team he opted to try himself. While Wade did win a title, you certainly wouldnt say LBJ joined a championship team. In fact you could say LBJ just replaced Shaq (pretty impressive).

I hate LBJ because he is the strongest most physically gifted athlete I may have ever seen, but rather than act that way he would prefer to flop around like a little girl to draw calls. THATS what makes me hate that dude.

He's the best in the NBA. Period

Durant is a better scorer I'd even say melo is a better scorer as well.. Overall skills yes he's debatably the best in the game right now... Compare mlb to nba Durant is like jeter melo is like mo Rivera lbj is like arod. Who would you wan to take the last shot of the game down 2... My choice is durant,melo,joe Johnson, lbj is far down the list for clutch last shot type of player Lbj Duche who is the biggest crybaby in the league. I'd like to test lbj for supplements. Lbj wouldn't surprise me at all if he was a regiment like arod.

fitzfarm wrote:I'm sorry, do you think Ewing would have joined Jordan, or Hakeem would have joined Malone and Stockton. Or magic joining bird or issah ..not a chance Not only did they hate each other they were loyal... And wanted to prove they were the best vs each other. Lbj is a coward, duche if he didn't have wade or bosh no championship he'd still be a loser. Jordan was the best and he did it with pippen who was not in the same caliber as wade, and grant and Luke Longly aren't in the same caliber as bosh.. Hence lbj sucks balls he knew he wasn't as good as Jordan he had to join forces to win and they won't even be a dynasty like Jordan

How many rings does Ewing, Stockton or Malone have again?

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:I'm sorry, do you think Ewing would have joined Jordan, or Hakeem would have joined Malone and Stockton. Or magic joining bird or issah ..not a chance Not only did they hate each other they were loyal... And wanted to prove they were the best vs each other. Lbj is a coward, duche if he didn't have wade or bosh no championship he'd still be a loser. Jordan was the best and he did it with pippen who was not in the same caliber as wade, and grant and Luke Longly aren't in the same caliber as bosh.. Hence lbj sucks balls he knew he wasn't as good as Jordan he had to join forces to win and they won't even be a dynasty like Jordan

How many rings does Ewing, Stockton or Malone have again?

how much respect do ewing, stockton and malone have.... compared to ime udoka who if i remember correctly has 3 rings?

Not more respect than James...

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:I'm sorry, do you think Ewing would have joined Jordan, or Hakeem would have joined Malone and Stockton. Or magic joining bird or issah ..not a chance Not only did they hate each other they were loyal... And wanted to prove they were the best vs each other. Lbj is a coward, duche if he didn't have wade or bosh no championship he'd still be a loser. Jordan was the best and he did it with pippen who was not in the same caliber as wade, and grant and Luke Longly aren't in the same caliber as bosh.. Hence lbj sucks balls he knew he wasn't as good as Jordan he had to join forces to win and they won't even be a dynasty like Jordan

How many rings does Ewing, Stockton or Malone have again?

how much respect do ewing, stockton and malone have.... compared to ime udoka who if i remember correctly has 3 rings?

Not more respect than James...

are you sure about that? what is lebron's popularity index compared to those guys in their prime?

Considering the global appeal of the game today, compared to back then, I would readily gander that LeBron is far and away the more popular player. I actually don't think it'd be close even if the rest of the world wasn't a factor.